About Sabbath

Danthemailman said:

If honestly answering a question about one's beliefs gets you banned from a "Christian" forum, then what does that say about one's beliefs?

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Oh you were trying to get me to say whether someone was saved or not in regards to keeping the Sabbath. Here in this forum we are not allowed to say whether someone is saved or not. You know that rule just as well as I do. And besides that it is not our place it is God’s

HIM said:

I don’t know what you’re talking about. But Ask Jesus He was more than banned.

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And by who? It wasn’t Christians who were against Jesus.

HIM said:

Oh you were trying to get me to say whether someone was saved or not in regards to keeping the Sabbath. Here is this form we are not allowed to say whether someone is saved or not. You know that role just as well as I do.

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We are not allowed to call someone out by name and tell them they are not saved. Answering a general question, “do you believe that keeping the sabbath day is absolutely necessary for salvation” is not the same thing as calling someone out by name and telling them they are not saved. My answer to that question is NO.

I hear people all the time on this forum say they believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation and they have not been banned. Those same people don’t openly tell me I’m not saved for disagreeing with them.

Danthemailman said:

We are not allowed to call someone out by name and tell them they are not saved. Answering a general question, “do you believe that keeping the sabbath day is absolutely necessary for salvation” is not the same thing as calling someone out by name and telling them they are not saved. My answer to that question is NO.

I hear people all the time on this forum say they believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation and they have not been banned. Those same people don’t openly tell me I’m not saved for disagreeing with them.

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The prohibition on speaking to a particular poster's salvation is site-wide. There is a statement of purpose regulation for the law and sabbath sub-forum where many of these discussions take place that could limit the more broad contention in that forum. I am not aware it would apply here.

ALL READ - Law -based salvation

LoveGodsWord said:

1, As posted from the beginning, I have never argued for definite article to sabbatismos and an indefinite argument does not change the overall context and interpretation of Hebrews 4:1-9. I have never made any arguments that sabbatismos does not mean "a sabbath rest" and have already said it does.

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I am glad you have cleared up the issue since your statements several times mentioned "the sabbath" in rendering the term, which is not accurate.

Now, the reason this is important is that he didn't put "the sabbath" using the usual word for the sabbath. And if his point was to argue for "the sabbath" he certainly could have done so. But he noted a sabbath rest because the rest is in line with what he was talking about throughout, the rest offered "today" that we should not harden our hearts towards.

2, I have never made arguments in support of "a" Sabbath vs "the" Sabbath or Sabbath rest vs keeping a Sabbath or keeping the Sabbath and stated all views from the beginning. So this is only a distraction to my original post.

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It is not a distraction to clarify that you are not in fact asserting definiteness.

3. The literal meaning of sabbatismos from various Greek dictionaries, Interlinear and Lexicons have been provided showing the literal Greek meanings of Sabbatismos to Sabbath observance or keeping of a/the Sabbath

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Agreed, keeping of a sabbath.

4 Aramaic translations were also provided that support the Greek definitions provide above from to show the Syriac language meanings here

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Murdock’s translation of the Syriac is: “Therefore it is established, that the people of God are to have a sabbath.” Lamsa’s translation is more literal: “It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath.”

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Please post the Aramaic text, and explain why "it is the duty of..." is more literal than the other.

LoveGodsWord said:

5. Historical use of the root verb to sabbatismos which is sabbatizo that is used in the Septuagint has also been provided which is only ever used and applied to “Sabbath keeping” or “Sabbath observance” as shown in Exodus 16:30; Leviticus 23:32; 26:34 and 2 Chronicles 36:21.

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Yes, and as the texts points out, that is not limited to the weekly Sabbath:

Lev 23:32 It shall be to you a Sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict yourselves. On the ninth day of the month beginning at evening, from evening to evening shall you keep your Sabbath.”

One of the ways to establish the meaning of a word is to look at the context of other uses of it in writings from the period. All these other uses of the word have the meaning "Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance".

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This is incorrect. There are only a handful of uses and some could apply to more than the weekly sabbath, and two of Origen's uses you have admitted to being not literal sabbath observance. And Chrysostom makes plain that he understands the meaning as "a sabbath keeping", but also does not interpret it as the 7th day Sabbath.

So the argument based on usage does not uphold your position.

6. The meaning of every word in the bible is not separated from context and interpretation is directly linked and tied into the scripture and chapter contexts of what is written before. It is the context here that is being argued linked to the Greek meaning of sabbatismos. For example, even if I was to only use the "Sabbath rest" interpretation of sabbatismos it also does not effect the context that I have already provided in Hebrews 4:1-5 showing that there are two rests being discussed here.

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It is in fact the context that makes the argument. And the context argument is clear. The rest spoken of throughout is the one that remains, that of faith.

And this is in line with the context of not hardening your heart in unbelief, as the people being written to were being encouraged not to do. And it is in line with the context speaking of Jesus' High Priestly ministry and people coming to him for help in time of need, as the SDA commentary pointed out.

And it is in line with the repeated use of this "today" rest that remains even after Joshua entered the promised land.

LoveGodsWord said:

7, The “Sabbath rest” or “Sabbath keeping” that remains for the people of God from Hebrews 4:9 linked into the contexts of those who believe and those who do not believe as shown in Hebrews 3:12-19 and Hebrews

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Which is the point, they are the same rest.

4:1-9 show that we cannot enter into God’s seventh day Sabbath rest *Hebrews 4:3-4 unless we first believe and follow God’s Word (gospel rest) *Hebrews 4:1-3.

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As the SDA Commentary pointed out, it does not in fact say that. It indicates the rest spoken of in the time of the Psalmist remains to be entered into today. They are the same rest.

And even Ellen White commenting on vs. 9 says it is the rest of grace.

8, It makes absolutely no sense to claim that sabbath keeping is not the meaning in Hebrews 4:9 when the Greek word shows σαββατισμός being used in verse 9. It that was true the Greek word κατάπαυσις σάββατον would have been used rather than σαββατισμός. This would be more consistent with the rest of the chapters use of κατάπαυσις in Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4; 8; 10; 11 but it doesn't.

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It makes perfect sense. If the meaning was "the sabbath" there is a noun regularly used for that. Instead he uses the indefinite description of a sabbath rest, because he already described what that rest was, and it was not the weekly sabbath. As Ellen White said it is the true rest of faith.

Moreover, you act like the word κατάπαυσις is not used in Sabbath contexts. It was already pointed out that it is. Genesis 2:2, Exodus 20:11, and Hebrews 4:4 etc. use it. As the SDA Bible commentary noted they are used interchangeably. But here the term a sabbath rest is used because it is indefinite by its nature, and it is referring to the same rest spoken of throughout.

Clearly a different meaning is intended by using σαββατισμός to what was written previously.

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Which even from your own position would make no sense, because it was κατάπαυσις in Genesis 2:2 and Hebrews 4:4. You are making a distinction in the term used, but they used both regarding the sabbath. And the attribute that is notable is that the word used is indefinite.

This is why historical use was provided in the earlier posts that show the root word sabbatizo in the Septuagint of the old testament shows the only time this word is ever used is to Sabbath keeping or Sabbath observance.

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But not just of the weekly Sabbath.

Even outside of the scriptures historical use of sabbatismos is also, applied and used for sabbath keeping or sabbath observance.

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Yet we showed that it is used abstractly, and in reference to other than the weekly Sabbath. And this is in line with the context. And it is in line with Ellen White's statements that it is the rest of "grace" and "true faith".

LoveGodsWord said:

Sorry I am not interested in an interpretation of the scriptures outside of the bible..

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You either need to revise this statement or explain why you include Ellen White in the Bible.

Danthemailman said:

In regards to Hebrews 4:9, Sabbatismos is only used once in the Bible and is properly translated "sabbath rest," yet in context in Hebrews 4, we can see the author of Hebrews is attaching to the sabbath a new and expanded meaning beyond that of sabbaton, which is otherwise used to denote the weekly sabbath day under the law.

*Had the writer of Hebrews wanted to indicate the 7th day sabbath, he would have used sabbaton, the standard word for sabbath. But he didn't.

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Agreed, he intentionally used a term that was indefinite, rather than the usual with the article, as he was speaking of a "sabbath rest" already spelled out that was not the weekly.

And the native-Greek speaking Christian Arch Bishop Chrysostom had no problem figuring out the meaning.

Part of the struggle for Adventists is that when they read that the rest of God from His creative works was on the seventh-day, they immediately associate it with the Sabbath command.

But while all of us see God resting on the seventh-day, and the Sabbath being a commemoration of that, the difference is we recognize the text in Genesis 2 and Hebrews 4 does not indicate people keeping Sabbath, but God resting. It is this resting of God from His creative works that is referenced, and the application made is to us resting from our works, and responding in faith. The people in the wilderness doubted and drew back, because they feared the giants and doubted God's power. We are not to do so, but to trust in Him and not harden our hearts "today", so that we may still enter that rest.

The Sabbath was given as a sign as Ex 31, and Ezekiel point out.

Just as the Sabbath command to the Israelites looked back to the rest of God at creation, so this passage looks back to the rest of God from His woks, and invites us by belief to also rest from our works in, to use the phrase of Ellen White, the true rest of faith.

If you look at what the text says about God's rest, rather than immediately reading in the weekly sabbath there is no issue.

I offer the following not as proof, as it is not Scripture, but just to phrase part of the issue another way:

Justin Martyr Dialoge with Trypho
Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned, though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after them Araham with all his descendants until Moses

Irenaeus Against Heresies
And that man was not justified by these things, but that they were given as a sign to the people, this fact shows, that Abraham himself, without circumcision and without observance of Sabbaths, “believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of
God.”

Tertullian An Answer to the Jews
Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised, and inobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering Him sacrifices, uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was by Him commended; while He accepted what he was offering in simplicity of heart, and reprobated the sacrifice of his brother Cain, who was not rightly dividing what he was offering. Noah also, uncircumcised--yes, and inobservant of the Sabbath--God freed from the deluge. For Enoch, too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and in-observant of the Sabbath, He translated from this world; who did not first taste death, in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might by this time show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God. Melchizedek also, "the priest of the most high God," uncircumcised and inobservant of the Sabbath, was chosen to the priesthood of God. Lot, withal, the brother of Abraham, proves that it was for the merits of righteousness, without observance of the law, that he was freed from the conflagration of the Sodomites. But Abraham, was circumcised. Yes, but he pleased God before his circumcision; nor yet did he observe the Sabbath. For he had "accepted" circumcision; but such as was to be for "a sign" of that time, not for a prerogative title to salvation.

tall73 said:

Part of the struggle for Adventists is that when they read that the rest of God from His creative works was on the seventh-day, they immediately associate it with the Sabbath command.

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For He, God spake in a certain place, Mt Sinai. And this again, Again He speaks of the Seventh Day IF they shall enter in my rest, the rest that is of the Gospel. (vs 2,3,4 and 5)

How does He speak it? As He did on Mt Sinai. As a Matter of fact for all who partake of His Rest which is the Gospel. There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God. For he that has entered into his rest, the rest in which is of the Gospel. He ALSO hath Ceased from his own works AS GOD did from His. (vs 9 and 10)

A few things need to be noted from verse 9. Two separate things are being mentioned. A rest which is the Gospel (see verse 2) And a ceasing from work AS God did. AS denotes a direct comparison.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath Keeping to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


Not a SDA, so.....

HIM said:

For He, God spake in a certain place, Mt Sinai.

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This I agree with completely. The speaking was from Sinai--not the garden. And that is what I am referring to. The commandment was spoken by God at Sinai. But while relating the command He also related historical events, which the commandment commemorates:

Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

The historical act of resting was in the past, and related by God in His own voice. The commemoration of it is the Sabbath command, given to Israel.

Hebrews references the original rest, of which the later commandment was a memorial.

However, some (including but not limited to Adventists) read into this reference to God's rest something else. They think that God not only rested after His creative works, but also gave the commandment to Adam in the garden. But that is not stated in the text.

What is stated in the text is that the Sabbath is introduced in Exodus 16, and is then commanded by God's own voice, and then memorialized in stone as part of the tables of the testimony. Exodus 31 relates that it is a sign with Israel, and references the tablet. So the sabbath is a commemoration of the historical event which is being referenced in Hebrews.

To put it another way, Adventists at times will say that Exodus is quoting from Genesis. Because Ellen White states so they also think Moses wrote the book of Genesis while in Midian, prior to these words being spoken (some others believe this as well, but not on the basis of holding to an inspired author, and not from a biblical statement that I am aware of).

I think that it is unlikely that Moses wrote Genesis before Sinai. More likely to me is that both Exodus and Genesis are referring to God's words, spoken at Sinai. In the case of Exodus that seems nearly inescapable, since Moses was commanded to write various things, and the words are a quote from God on the mountain. But the narrative of Genesis is carried on in Exodus, forming one work. And so they were probably both written after Sinai, and refer back to the same statement of God.

Related to that, I find it likely, as it happens in other instances in Genesis, that in the midst of the historical account in Genesis 2 an explanatory note is included for the assembly of Israel. In this explanatory note it reminds them that this historic rest is the basis for the later sign commanded to Israel, and then included in the covenant words at Sinai. It states God hallowed the seventh day. However, No description of a command is given in Genesis. And no description of someone keeping the command, or failing to keep the command is referenced until Exodus 16.

God referenced Israel violating His Sabbaths in the prophets. Yet we see no mention of people violating the Sabbaths at the time of the flood, when it is clear that they were turning from their Creator.

Exodus 31 tells us it was a sign with Israel. Deuteronomy 5 indicates it also points to redemption from Egypt. The Sabbath command then is a sign with Israel which is included in the covenant document as a reminder of God's sovereignty over them as Creator and Redeemer.

So while the sabbath references the historical event of resting in the garden, it is primarily the resting that is in view in Hebrews, rather than the commandment itself.

Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

To explain it another way, my friend who enjoys photography gave me a photo from our wedding that turned out better than the professional photographer's photos (not that they were bad, this was just better).

Now we at times display that photo, and if anyone asks about it, we relate who took it, and of course, that it is from our wedding, though the dress is a bit of a giveaway on that point.

Now if I later bring up the wedding again in conversation, do they think I am talking about the photo because I talked about the wedding when discussing the photo? No, the photo was a commemoration of the event, that was special to us because it recalls that occasion, and also because it reminds us of our friend.

But the wedding was the crucial event itself, and is not limited to the commemoration of it. And the photo was given to us later, after the wedding, not at the time of the wedding itself.

What I am getting at is that Adventists often see God's rest described and think Adam keeping the commandment. Rather, what is described is the historical rest.

And it is that rest that we enter into. And it is not two rests being described in Hebrews. It is one. God rested from His works (of creation). We enter by faith into His rest which has been going on since creation, and we rest from our works.

Now it is a "sabbath" rest, a resting from our works. And it points back to the same rest as the seventh-day Sabbath. But the seventh-day Sabbath is a commemoration given at Sinai. Whereas this rest of salvation is entering into God's rest which is from the foundation of the world. We enter into His rest and rest from our works.

The author sees this offer to enter God's rest as something yet available in their day--an invitation to be accepted. And they are not to harden their hearts and refuse to enter in. The ultimate entering in is at the end of the journey, as with Israel, and they must endure to the end, which is what he is calling the listeners to do.

Heb 3:14 For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Those who failed to enter came out of Egypt, started the journey, but did not continue in belief, and so did not enter in.

Heb 3:16 For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?

Yet the author points out that those hearing in his day (and us today), do enter in through faith, and belief.

Heb 4:2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest

tall73 said:

This I agree with completely. The speaking was from Sinai--not the garden. And that is what I am referring to. The commandment was spoken by God at Sinai. But while relating the command He also related historical events, which the commandment commemorates:

Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

The historical act of resting was in the past, and related by God in His own voice. The commemoration of it is the Sabbath command, given to Israel.

Hebrews references the original rest, of which the later commandment was a memorial.

However, some (including but not limited to Adventists) read into this reference to God's rest something else. They think that God not only rested after His creative works, but also gave the commandment to Adam in the garden. But that is not stated in the text.

What is stated in the text is that the Sabbath is introduced in Exodus 16, and is then commanded by God's own voice, and then memorialized in stone as part of the tables of the testimony. Exodus 31 relates that it is a sign with Israel, and references the tablet. So the sabbath is a commemoration of the historical event which is being referenced in Hebrews.

To put it another way, Adventists at times will say that Exodus is quoting from Genesis. Because Ellen White states so they also think Moses wrote the book of Genesis while in Midian, prior to these words being spoken (some others believe this as well, but not on the basis of holding to an inspired author, and not from a biblical statement that I am aware of).

I think that it is unlikely that Moses wrote Genesis before Sinai. More likely to me is that both Exodus and Genesis are referring to God's words, spoken at Sinai. In the case of Exodus that seems nearly inescapable, since Moses was commanded to write various things, and the words are a quote from God on the mountain. But the narrative of Genesis is carried on in Exodus, forming one work. And so they were probably both written after Sinai, and refer back to the same statement of God.

Related to that, I find it likely, as it happens in other instances in Genesis, that in the midst of the historical account in Genesis 2 an explanatory note is included for the assembly of Israel. In this explanatory note it reminds them that this historic rest is the basis for the later sign commanded to Israel, and then included in the covenant words at Sinai. It states God hallowed the seventh day. However, No description of a command is given in Genesis. And no description of someone keeping the command, or failing to keep the command is referenced until Exodus 16.

God referenced Israel violating His Sabbaths in the prophets. Yet we see no mention of people violating the Sabbaths at the time of the flood, when it is clear that they were turning from their Creator.

Exodus 31 tells us it was a sign with Israel. Deuteronomy 5 indicates it also points to redemption from Egypt. The Sabbath command then is a sign with Israel which is included in the covenant document as a reminder of God's sovereignty over them as Creator and Redeemer.

So while the sabbath references the historical event of resting in the garden, it is primarily the resting that is in view in Hebrews, rather than the commandment itself.

Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

To explain it another way, my friend who enjoys photography gave me a photo from our wedding that turned out better than the professional photographer's photos (not that they were bad, this was just better).

Now we at times display that photo, and if anyone asks about it, we relate who took it, and of course, that it is from our wedding, though the dress is a bit of a giveaway on that point.

Now if I later bring up the wedding again in conversation, do they think I am talking about the photo because I talked about the wedding when discussing the photo? No, the photo was a commemoration of the event, that was special to us because it recalls that occasion, and also because it reminds us of our friend.

But the wedding was the crucial event itself, and is not limited to the commemoration of it. And the photo was given to us later, after the wedding, not at the time of the wedding itself.

What I am getting at is that Adventists often see God's rest described and think Adam keeping the commandment. Rather, what is described is the historical rest.

And it is that rest that we enter into. And it is not two rests being described in Hebrews. It is one. God rested from His works (of creation). We enter by faith into His rest which has been going on since creation, and we rest from our works.

Now it is a "sabbath" rest, a resting from our works. And it points back to the same rest as the seventh-day Sabbath. But the seventh-day Sabbath is a commemoration given at Sinai. Whereas this rest of salvation is entering into God's rest which is from the foundation of the world. We enter into His rest and rest from our works.

The author sees this offer to enter God's rest as something yet available in their day--an invitation to be accepted. And they are not to harden their hearts and refuse to enter in. The ultimate entering in is at the end of the journey, as with Israel, and they must endure to the end, which is what he is calling the listeners to do.

Heb 3:14 For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.

Those who failed to enter came out of Egypt, started the journey, but did not continue in belief, and so did not enter in.

Heb 3:16 For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17 And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient?

Yet the author points out that those hearing in his day (and us today), do enter in through faith, and belief.

Heb 4:2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter that rest


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Good post @tall73..it’s the Rest (Sabbath rest) that we must enter into it Not the “Day” ie 7th day..

in fact the 7th day was blessed,holy because of the “Rest” not because it was different from other days..so if we are not able to enter into the same Rest (Sabbath rest) then we cannot keep the 7th day Holy as in the commandment..

also important to note, is the sort of work that we are been told to do so after completing that work then we Rest (sabbath) just as God Rest from His work as in creation..

that why the author of Hebrews mentioned in Hebrews 4:7..God set a certain day calling it “Today”...(this day is for Gods people regarding their Rest)

the difference between the “7th day” & “Today” is the fact that “today” is Not specific to any day ie Mon-Sun because the day is determined by the “Rest” so whatever day you complete the work is called “Today”...

pasifika said:

Good post @tall73..it’s the Rest (Sabbath rest) that we must enter into it Not the “Day” ie 7th day..

in fact the 7th day was blessed,holy because of the “Rest” not because it was different from other days..so if we are not able to enter into the same Rest (Sabbath rest) then we cannot keep the 7th day Holy as in the commandment..

also important to note, is the sort of work that we are been told to do so after completing that work then we Rest (sabbath) just as God Rest from His work as in creation..

that why the author of Hebrews mentioned in Hebrews 4:7..God set a certain day calling it “Today”...(this day is for Gods people regarding their Rest)

the difference between the “7th day” & “Today” is the fact that “today” is Not specific to any day ie Mon-Sun because the day is determined by the “Rest” so whatever day you complete the work is called “Today”...

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Interesting but God said something different....

Exodus 20: 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.


Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

imge said:

Interesting but God said something different....

Exodus 20: 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.


Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

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Thank you @imge, if you read again Exodus 20:9 it tells you who the seventh day Sabbath is for...ie who rest on the seventh day?

The other thing to note in the commandment is the Sabbath day must be kept "holy" by man (ie Israelites )..so can unholy man be able to keep a day holy? No! only God is Holy and can keep His day holy..hence why God came in the flesh in the form of Jesus Christ fulfilled that command and All the commandments regarding Righteousness..

pasifika said:

Thank you @imge, if you read again Exodus 20:9 it tells you who the seventh day Sabbath is for...ie who rest on the seventh day?
Also the passage is Not say that the 7th day is our Rest..

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I think what you are suggesting is that God gave Himself a commandment and I can assure you that is not the case. You should read the entire commandment again....

Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

imge said:

I think what you are suggesting is that God gave Himself a commandment and I can assure you that is not the case. You should read the entire commandment again....

Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

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Yes the Sabbath day must be kept "Holy" Exodus 20:8...so are you holy? ONLY God is Holy..

The only man or Israelite to keep that day Holy is Jesus Christ who is God in the form of a man...

So, yes the commandments was written for man but only One Man can be able to follow it...

pasifika said:

Yes the Sabbath day must be kept "Holy" Exodus 20:8...so are you holy? ONLY God is Holy..

The only man or Israelite to keep that day Holy is Jesus Christ who is God in the form of a man...

So, yes the commandments was written for man but only One Man can be able to follow it...

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That's not what the commandment says. We are supposed to keep God's Sabbath a Holy day Isaiah 58:13 The way you are reading the commandment is that God commanded Himself to do something which doesn't make a lot of sense. Do you think God would ask something we aren't capable of doing?

imge said:

That's not what the commandment says. We are supposed to keep God's Sabbath a Holy day Isaiah 58:13 The way you are reading the commandment is that God commanded Himself to do something which doesn't make a lot of sense. Do you think God would ask something we aren't capable of doing?

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If God commandments can be kept and followed by man then what is the point of Gods Son coming down here instead of just stay up there because man can follow All the commandments God gave and be Righteous?

what is your reasoning? God gave commandments to man because they can follow them? Or to show they cannot?

fatherforgivethem said:

I'm a new Christian. There is 5 months or something since I started 'truly' following Jesus and God, obeying Him, learning, etc. Everything is going well, I'm learning so much. But now, looks like everything is running out of my control, I don't know what to do or to follow anymore, if I should do X or no, if I should follow Y or no.
Only one thing remains clear to me: I believe in Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and Bible.

There is many things right now I don't know what to follow or do. But in this thread, I wanna focus in just one of them: the Sabbath / the 4th commandment. It is making me desperate, overthink over and over and get worried so often.


What should I do?

I have already read the Bible arguments from SDA and they look really good. But I also read the Bible arguments from people that do not follow the Sabbath and they also look really good.
Since both really look good, I thought that the Bible is contradicting itself, but I truly believe in the Bible, I just don't know what to follow.




Arguments from SDA:
1- The 4th commandment that God gave to Moses
2- Matthew 17:3 - I don't know exactly if this is an argument, but I saw some using it.
3- Mark 7:6-13
4- Luke 16:31
5- Deuteronomy 8:11


Arguments that don't think Christians need to follow Sabbath:
1- Romans 14:5,6
2- Galatians 5:2-8
3- Galatians 4:9-11
4- Colossians 2:14-17



I am personally more inclined to the non-Sabbath verses, because they look more solid and direct on what message/meaning they are trying to get across and it is also aiming for Christians that are not Jewish, but the SDA arguments are also good.

Please, don't use articles and texts that are not from the Bible to make an argument.
And don't use "if your conscience says to..." arguments, they are so shallow, and this is a subject that is directed connected to God and Jesus and defines if you go to hell or no, because even if you do every other thing correctly, if God's Truth is that no matter who you are you should follow Sabbath, then I would say it is a condemning subject.

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I've been out for a week and saw this yesterday. Pardon me if I duplicate someone else's post. I have read some and I see the typical arguments back and forth. Please forgive the long post.

I come from a slightly different perspective. I once struggled with things like this. Thinking I was in the Faith and just loving God through Christ - not thinking I was somehow being 'sinful' in what I did or did not do based on what other "believers" said. As you said, wondering if I should do 'X' or 'Y'.

Then one day I realized that God had given me His Spirit - and the best way to know what He thinks about something is to just directly ask Him. You would think it is an obvious conclusion, but it was one that I only came to when I finally reached the proverbial end of the rope and had nothing left to hold on to.

That moment changed how I understood things from then on. He let me know what was the truth in a way that is indescribable. There was no doubt after I knew and whenever I would hear people talk about the topic after there was never any uncertainty like I had before.

Now, that time did not have to do with the Sabbath - it was about baptism - but when the topic of the Sabbath came up I simply went to Him as I had before. That one time was so profound that I never have forgotten that He actually does speak to His children.

I say all of that to say, it is not about your conscience but about what He says. Is He going to tell you to do one thing and then tell another person to do something else? Not necessarily, but maybe you will just find that it is not about 'doing' or 'not doing' - but rather just knowing what He desires.

Often we think of God as simply a rule giver. Jesus showed us to understand Him as a Father.

I am a Father, and I can assure you that if my kids come to me about something - seriously wanting to know something - then I am not going to tell them to just figure it out on their own, or worse yet tell them to ask someone else.

If I would be like that to my kids, how much more is God to His children?

With all that said, I do have something to say about the Sabbath. All too often the Sabbath is just looked at as a rule or ordinance to be done each week. When in reality, the actual Sabbath is the seventh day of Creation. That is the day God created - that is the day God rested - that is the day God blessed and made holy.

Consider this, every other one of the '10 commandments' is not specific to a date or time, or situation. None of them. They are a continual command regardless of anything else. You can say they are transcendent.

Now, often they are tried to be compartmentalized in one area or another, but in reality, there are no 'boundaries' to them. Why then do people place them on the 4th commandment? There will eventually be no more day/night cycles. Meaning there will be no more days of the week. Will the Sabbath then be meaningless? No, because the Sabbath is not about a day of the week - it is about a God who created everything.

There is a misunderstanding of the commandment, versus the way they(Israel Nation) were instructed to observe the commandment. The commandment is to remember the Sabbath to keep it holy. The commandment is not "do this or that, don't do this or that, to keep it holy".

There are a lot of people who 'do' and 'do not do' on the seventh day of each week(some the first) and think they are "remembering" the Sabbath - worse yet thinking they are keeping it holy by their actions. In reality, they are only remembering what they want, what they think, what they desire - not the day God rested.

The Sabbath is about God and what He created for Man. Think about it.