Is it Wrong to Call Calvinism Unjust?

Brightfame52 said:

In the flesh you cant lease God ! So God doesnt tell you how to please Him if you n the flesh, He said you cant !

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You're not making any sense.

BNR32FAN said:

No I haven’t, but what I did do is provide evidence that all creation has received God’s grace. I don’t refute the fact that without God’s grace we cannot repent and come to Christ. That’s absolutely biblical. My position is that God will grant grace to everyone enabling them to repent and be saved, only not all will accept His offer.

What do you think Paul meant when he said...

“For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:20-21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

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I have the slightest Iidea what you talkig about, man is in a hopeless situation in the flesh. The only people who can repent and believe are the Born Again.

FreeGrace2 said:

You're not making any sense.

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In the flesh you cant please God Rom 8:8

Brightfame52 said:

I have the slightest Iidea what you talkig about, man is in a hopeless situation in the flesh. The only people who can repent and believe are the Born Again.

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The Bible is clear about who can repent and believe. Anyone. Christ died for everyone. Everyone is commanded to repent.

And it's clear that people refuse to repent and believe. Proving that they are capable of doing so.

But please explain how someone can refuse a command, but can't do it.

Brightfame52 said:

In the flesh you cant please God Rom 8:8

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You are correct. Those in the flesh can be believers who are out of fellowship. Just like rebellious and uncooperative children.

FreeGrace2 said:

The Bible is clear about who can repent and believe. Anyone. Christ died for everyone. Everyone is commanded to repent.

And it's clear that people refuse to repent and believe. Proving that they are capable of doing so.

But please explain how someone can refuse a command, but can't do it.

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One cant repent if they are in the flesh Rom 8:8 ! The only way that changes is when a person is Born again of the Spirit and He dwells in them.

FreeGrace2 said:

You are correct. Those in the flesh can be believers who are out of fellowship. Just like rebellious and uncooperative children.

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No, believers arent in the flesh, but in the Spirit because the Spirit dwells i Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And besides that, even if a believer was in the flesh, but that's not possible, it would not help your argument against the truth, because the unbeliever is still in the flesh and cant please God Rom 8:8

Brightfame52 said:

One cant repent if they are in the flesh Rom 8:8 ! The only way that changes is when a person is Born again of the Spirit and He dwells in them.

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I'm sorry that you seem unable to grasp the concept.

The Bible says people REFUSE to repent and REFUSE to believe.

The action of refusing is a CHOICE.

That PROVES that repenting and believing are CHOICES that people are ABLE to DO.

You can keep repeating Rom 8:8 all you want. It doesn't help your unbiblical beliefs in any way.

Cornelius in Acts 10 proves your theology is unbiblical. He recognized that God existed, and he sought Him through prayers and alms.

Brightfame52 said:

No, believers arent in the flesh, but in the Spirit because the Spirit dwells i Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And besides that, even if a believer was in the flesh, but that's not possible, it would not help your argument against the truth, because the unbeliever is still in the flesh and cant please God Rom 8:8

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Your argument is destroyed by Scriptural truth, than men REFUSE to believe and repent. Which PROVES that they are able to do both.

Post 348 refutes your claims.

Brightfame52 said:

One cant repent if they are in the flesh Rom 8:8 !

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The Romans 8 verse you've quoted doesn't even have the word repent in it. It seems you've just imposed that into the text. It merely states one in the flesh can't please God, AND in the verses prior it elaborates.

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Rom 8:5,8

So the question is what does each one individually chose to have their minds on....the way of the Spirit or the way of the flesh. There's nothing in the text to show men don't have will to make a right choice. To embrace God's spiritual way one must choose to receive his grace and if so doing one can live a life pleasing to God. If one chooses to have their mind and keep their existence with their minds on the flesh and choose not to embrace God's enablement they by staying in the flesh cannot please God. It doesn't say one who chooses not to walk in the faith couldn't have chosen to do so when presented with the gospel.

FreeGrace2 said:

I'm sorry that you seem unable to grasp the concept.

The Bible says people REFUSE to repent and REFUSE to believe.

The action of refusing is a CHOICE.

That PROVES that repenting and believing are CHOICES that people are ABLE to DO.

You can keep repeating Rom 8:8 all you want. It doesn't help your unbiblical beliefs in any way.

Cornelius in Acts 10 proves your theology is unbiblical. He recognized that God existed, and he sought Him through prayers and alms.

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It seems to me you cant grasp the truth about the unregenerate in the flesh.

FreeGrace2 said:

Your argument is destroyed by Scriptural truth, than men REFUSE to believe and repent. Which PROVES that they are able to do both.

Post 348 refutes your claims.

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Those in the flesh, the unregenerate cant put Faith in Christ because it pleases God, which they cant do.

They cant repent either because their minds are enmity against God and cant be submitted to God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Say with me total inability !

bobber

The Romans 8 verse you've quoted doesn't even have the word repent in it.

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It doesnt have to the word repent in it. It says they which are in the fesh cant please God, so that covers it. Doesnt repentance towards God please Him ? Faith does ?

Brightfame52 said:

It seems to me you cant grasp the truth about the unregenerate in the flesh.

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It is you who seems unable to grasp the reality about REFUSING. It's a free choice. It means one can either choose to do the action, or REFUSE to do the action.

That's why your understanding of so many verses is affected negatively.

Brightfame52 said:

Those in the flesh, the unregenerate cant put Faith in Christ because it pleases God, which they cant do.

They cant repent either because their minds are enmity against God and cant be submitted to God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Say with me total inability !

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There is NOTHING in Romans about "total inability". Those are just words from calvinists to prop up their theology.

In fact, Paul clearly indicated how much CHOICE man has.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Paul was teaching about the various choices BELIEVERS have.

To either "let sin reign in your body", or NOT to.
To either "offer yourself to sin", or "offer yourselves to God".

That precedes ch 8. So your interpretation of v.8,9 is quite faulty.

1 Corinthians 2:14

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.


Romans 3:10-12

10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God; 12 They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one:

FreeGrace2 said:

It is you who seems unable to grasp the reality about REFUSING. It's a free choice. It means one can either choose to do the action, or REFUSE to do the action.

That's why your understanding of so many verses is affected negatively.

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The unwillingness is a symptom of inability. The unregenerate are unwilling to believe because they cant believe, their mind is enmity against God Rom 8:7-8.

Jesus said to the unregenerate jews Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

And He said why here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

FreeGrace2 said:

There is NOTHING in Romans about "total inability". Those are just words from calvinists to prop up their theology.

In fact, Paul clearly indicated how much CHOICE man has.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.
16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Paul was teaching about the various choices BELIEVERS have.

To either "let sin reign in your body", or NOT to.
To either "offer yourself to sin", or "offer yourselves to God".

That precedes ch 8. So your interpretation of v.8,9 is quite faulty.

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Romans 8:8 says they in the flesh cant please God ! Thats total inability, no ability !

Albion said:

1 Corinthians 2:14

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged.


Romans 3:10-12

10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God; 12 They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not, so much as one:

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These 3 verses quote from Psa 14:1-3 which is exactly the same as Psa 53:1-3.

The subject of the Psalms verses are about atheists. So of course they don't seek after God.

But Cornelius as an unsaved man DID seek God, through prayers and alms.

You can read it for yourself in Acts 10. And note what Cornelius told Peter about what an angel of God told him in Acts 11:14.

Brightfame52 said:

The unwillingness is a symptom of inability.

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Then you just don't understand words. If someone has an inability to do something, then there is NO need for unwillingness, since they can't do it anyway.

But your eyes/ears aren't opened to truth.

The unregenerate are unwilling to believe because they cant believe, their mind is enmity against God Rom 8:7-8.

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Sad that you don't understand what words actually mean.

Jesus said to the unregenerate jews Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

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If these unregenerate Jews couldn't come to Jesus, He would have simply said so.

"ye cannot come to me, or you would have life." That's what He would have said.

And He said why here Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

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Calvinists have a very bad habit of ignoring the very next verse, which ANSWERS who will come to Jesus.

"It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me."

The red words say that God has taught everyone. That would include Romans 1:19-21, which says that man is WITHOUT EXCUSE for not honoring Him as Creator and being thankful to Him.

The blue words are the actions of those who have paid attention to what God has taught.

The green words are the result of listening and learning from God.

Destroys calvinism.