Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

Timtofly

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Why???


You continue to ignore the scripture posted...,

but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

He fulfilled it all through his sacrifice. His sacrifice puts away the judgment for our sins past present or those that we may commit before he appears a second time in the future.. That leaves a blessed hope for the repentant for salvation at his second appearing.
It says right there in those verses that Christ has to appear a second time to finish what was started the first time. Not in reference to sin, but to judge those on earth who kept sin going.
 
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Timtofly

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Sorry.....but opinions don't make things True to Scripture.

The 490 years ended a long time ago. It's basic math and basic Christianity.
The 490 years ending a long time ago is also human opinion. No Scripture is going to state that it ended. The 7th Trumpet is the end. That is still future. Yet it seems that Revelation 10:6-7 to you is just human opinion. When was time over at any time in the first century?
 
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DavidPT

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No Scripture is going to state that it ended.


It does seem odd that no Scripture in the NT indicates it ended if it's supposed to have already ended. It is as if no one at the time even cared that it ended, not even the Holy Spirit, since He is the one that inspired authors in the NT to write what they did, and that none of them bothered writing that the 70 weeks had ended. Obviously, it wouldn't be that Holy Spirit didn't care because He didn't inspire anyone to write that it ended, it's that the Holy Spirit is not going to inspire someone to write something that is not even true. Maybe that's why no one in the NT bothered mentioning that the entire 70 weeks had been fulfilled.
 
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mkgal1

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The main confusion - it seems - is very similar to the confusion after Jesus's Resurrection in the first century. There were expectations of the Messiah of the ancient Israelites that He would be redeeming biblical Israel. Many believed (expected) their freedom or redemption would be in a tangible way....in a military fashion (which is what was going on at that Palm Sunday)....but when things didn't immediately change and Jesus was the suffering servant that died on the Cross....there was a lot of confusion. It took (at least) decades to sort out all that the Cross, Resurrection, and ascension meant.

Jesus was (and has been) glorified and the saints (both long dead -like the prophets that had been martyred - and alive and belonging to the Jesus Resurrection movement of the first century) were vindicated when the Kingdom was taken from the apostate and corrupt religious leaders that "sat in Moses' seat" as the ones to represent the God of the ancient Israelites and given to those that followed Jesus (in other words....the 1st century Church). No longer would the High Priests represent God to the nations (after 70 AD).

N.T. Wright explains all that in this video:

]
 
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mkgal1

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Yes, they quoted Psalms 2 in Acts 4 in their prayer to God in verse 24-25, but they were not saying that Psalms 2 was being fulfilled at that time, only in a likeness to what was written in Psalms 2, because the religious leaders were threatening them from continuing to preach and heal in Jesus's name.
......and in their conflict with the religious leaders there....who do you see as "coming out on top"? Who "wins" or is vindicated?

In my belief....this is an example of what Jesus meant when He said to the religious leaders....."from now on.....you will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds". All that Jesus said and had done (the authority He displayed) and His followers believing He was Messiah... would all be vindicated as being on the side of the OneTrue God.
 
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Timtofly

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This is not future Doug.


Heb 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.



Heb 1

1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He also made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?
We are not in the last days of the OT. We are in the last days of the NT.

Most theology wants to postpone the last days of the OT and place them in the last days of the NT. Then claim they already happened.
 
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mkgal1

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The 490 years ending a long time ago is also human opinion
It's something that is accepted by the Church to have been revealed by the Holy Spirit to the Church. The Holy Spirit only reveals to the Church as a community (His Body - the Body of Christ).....not to individuals for their own "use".
 
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mkgal1

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We are not in the last days of the OT. We are in the last days of the NT.

Most theology wants to postpone the last days of the OT and place them in the last days of the NT. Then claim they already happened.
The new covenant has. No. end. That is why it's also called - throughout Scripture - the everlasting covenant. If you want to go by His Kingdom....it also has.NO.end.

Only the temporary Mosaic Covenant ending is written about in Scripture.
 
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Timtofly

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The church has obviously benefited greatly from what Christ accomplished in fulfilling Daniel 9:24-27. There would be no Christian church without His death and resurrection, obviously.
Then why cannot the church be the gap, and the Second Coming with an earthly ministry that ends with the 7th Trumpet, finish the remaining part of the 70th week?
 
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keras

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That was not AFTER the 69th week was completed, which is what the prophecy says. You are failing English 101 here.
I did make a mistake in saying the 'cut off' was on the the 69th 'week' ending.
My belief is that the 69th 'week' ended when Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey;
Zechariah 9:9 Daughter of Zion, rejoice... Shout in triumph...
See your King is coming to you, His cause won, His victory gained, humble and mounted on a donkey
.......

Then; Daniel 9:26 After the sixty two [plus 7] have passed, the anointed Prince will be removed and no one will take His part......
The rest of verse 26 refers to the Roman conquest, 40 years later and then Daniel 9:27 prophesies what will happen in the 70th 'week', 1993 years after the 69th ended. 2000 years after the 69th, Jesus will Return to take up His rule of the world.
 
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Then why cannot the church be the gap,
Because there is no gap.

and the Second Coming with an earthly ministry that ends with the 7th Trumpet, finish the remaining part of the 70th week?
Second coming earthly ministry that ends with the 7th trumpet? How are you coming up with that?
 
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FaithWillDo

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Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy has been greatly misunderstood in mainstream teaching. Because of that misunderstanding, I wrote a very short paper which teaches its true meaning.

Here is what I have been shown concerning it:

Dan 9:24-27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Daniel’s seventy weeks prophecy is God’s timeline to accomplish the “restitution of all things”:

Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Seventy weeks of years (490 years) are given to “bring an end to sin” and “bring in everlasting righteousness” for mankind. Jesus Christ was sent by the Father to accomplish this great work:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

THE 70TH WEEK
At the start of the 70th week (483 years), Christ, now being 30 years of age, “confirmed the covenant” He made with Abraham.

Gen 15:5-6 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

This confirmation took place when Christ was baptized by John the Baptist.

Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli…

Matt 3:13-15 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

At that time, the final 7 year “week” commenced which would bring an end to sin, make reconciliation for iniquity and to bring in everlasting righteousness. To complete this mission, Christ willingly went to the cross at the 3 ½ year mark (He was “cutoff”). His sacrifice purchased mankind’s sin debt and provided the pathway of salvation for mankind. As a result of Christ’s death and resurrection, the Old covenant of Law ended and the New Covenant of Grace through Faith began. This change is shown to us by verse 27:

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Christ’s death on the cross caused the “sacrifice and the oblation to cease”. No longer could mankind approach God through the Old Covenant of Law. Now the only approach to God is through Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ who dwells in His new temple not made with hands. That new temple is mankind.

Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

However, mankind, who being carnally minded, prefers the Old Covenant of Law over the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Our carnal nature has a built in desire to show God that our “works” can make us acceptable to Him. So when a Called Out believer attempts to combine their own “works” with Grace through Faith, they “fall away”. This “falling away” is also combined with the deceptions of Satan who masquerades as Christ. When Satan’s deceptions run their full course within a Called Out believer, a worsened carnal state is developed.

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The “seven other spirits” is a spiritual term that represents the complete deception of Satan. It is the spirit of antichrist.

This worsened carnal state is called the “Man of Sin” by Paul:

2Thes 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Once this worsened carnal state occurs within a Called Out believer, it causes the “overspreading of abominations” which makes the Lord’s temple (themselves) desolate. This is the “sin that leads to death”.

1John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This abomination of desolation is what Christ refers to in this verse below:

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

THE REMAINING 3 ½ YEARS

The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is a spiritual covenant and it cleanses the inside of mankind. It is not bound by literal time. The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is represented by the remaining 3 ½ years which will put an end to sin. This 3 ½ years consists of two ages of time - the Church age and the Lake of Fire age (my terms). This 3 ½ years is also presented in scripture as Time, Times and half a time, 1260 days, 42 months and finally 3 ½ days.

The remaining 3 ½ years period starts within a believer when they are first Called Out from the world. This is the time of the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Jam 5:7-8 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James says a lot in these two verses and its meaning is hidden in spiritual language.

Christ is the Husbandman who is a farmer. The Precious Fruit of the Earth is the New Man in Christ who is to be harvested from the Earth. The Earth represents the carnal & sinful world. The farmer “hath long patience for it” because birthing many new Sons of God is a long process and is now just getting started with the harvest of the First-Fruits in this present age.

Christ even said:

Luke 12:49 I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

“Fire” is a spiritual term for the judgment of God. Without His judgment, no one would be saved. In the above verse, Christ longs to start that process of judgment upon mankind (The Elect first, then all others) but the time was not yet at hand. Since before the creation began, Christ has been waiting patiently for that day - the Day of the Lord. It is no wonder that “patience” is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

At the end of verse 7, James says that the growing season for Christ’s harvest of mankind starts with the Early Rain. It is at this point in time that a new believer will enter the Church. The Early Rain represents the receiving of the down-payment of the Holy Spirit. However, the Early Rain of the Spirit is not sufficient for us to grow to maturity and produce fruit. It leaves the new believer carnally mind and spiritually blind. It is at this time that Satan comes to us and causes us to accept His lies. We quickly fall away and spiritually worsen into a “Man of Sin”. This is the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel and Christ.

During this time, the fallen away believer desperately needs the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain is also known as the Baptism of the Spirit which is the rain that produces our salvation. However, this rain will not fall upon a Called and Chosen believer until the 3 ½ years period is complete.

Later in James, he had this to say about this matter:

James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

Note: The Early Rain falls upon the “sea” where unbelievers dwell. The Latter Rain falls upon the “earth” where the Called Out believers dwell.

Once the Latter Rain falls upon a Called Out and Chosen believer, they are “born again” and the last 3 ½ years of Daniel’s prophecy is testified to be true.

The completion of this "3 ½ years" started with the Day of Pentecost when those in the upper room received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. And it has been happening over and over again down through this age to all of Christ’s chosen Elect. But they are ONLY the First Fruits of Christ’s harvest of mankind. After this age ends, all who remain lost will go through the same process in the final age. When the last person is saved, then the "3 ½ years" will be completed and these statements will be testified to be true:

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

THE 1290 DAYS AND 1335 DAYS

Dan 12:11-12 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

If Christ accomplishes our salvation upon the completion of the 1260 days, then what are the spiritual symbols 1290 days and 1335 days teaching?

One must remember that Christ’s words are spirit and they carry a spiritual meaning that is different than what man’s wisdom teaches:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Just as the 1260 days (3 ½ years) is a spiritual term which carries its own meaning, so are the terms 1290 days and 1335 days.

The 1290 days is a product of 1260 days and 30 days. When the 1260 days are completed, Christ’s Elect are born again. This starts them on a new path – the straight path with the narrow gate. The term “30 days” is symbolic of this new path. This is the time when Christ begins His judgment upon our His Elect, upon their Old Man who stills remains.

1Pe 4:17 For it is the ripe time for the judgment to begin with the house of God; but, if first with us, what shall be the end of them who yield not unto the glad-message of God?

As I pointed out earlier in this paper, Christ was said to be 30 years old when He started His ministry. He was traveling the path to be judged for the sins of the world and it took Him to the cross. Likewise, we too must pick up our cross and follow Him during our 30 days:

Matt 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Once the 1260 days and 30 days are complete, we are considered “blessed” when we make it to the 1335 days. The 1335 days is a product of 1260 days, 30 days and 45 days. The term “45 days” is symbolic of the completion of Grace through Faith within us. It is the time when we produce spiritual fruit and are ready for harvest. All of Christ’s Called and Chosen Elect make it to the 1335 days.

CONCLUSION

Seventy weeks of years (490 years) were given for Christ to put an end to sin and bring in everlasting righteousness. After 483 literal years had passed, Christ started His ministry on earth when He was baptized by John the Baptist. At the mid- point of the last week of years (7 years), Christ was crucified and was “cut off”. This marked the change from the Old Covenant of Law to the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. This change caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This change also ended the literal time calculation of the 70 weeks of years with 3 ½ years remaining. Since the New Covenant is spiritual, the remaining 3 ½ years are also spiritual and are no longer literal years.

The 3 ½ years remaining occurs within a believer starting with the time when they are Called Out from the world. This happens when the Early Rain of the Spirit falls upon them as an unbeliever. It ends when the Latter Rain falls upon them as a Fallen Away Man of Sin under Satan influence. It is at this point that the person is “born again”. Then the process of judgment begins (1290 days) upon their Old Man and ends (1335 days) when the Old Man is destroyed and the New Man in Christ is spiritually mature and producing spiritual fruit.

This pathway of Salvation is 100% the work of Christ. He cannot fail since love cannot fail. When all is finished, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven up to the Father and God will be “all in all”.

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe
 
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I did make a mistake in saying the 'cut off' was on the the 69th 'week' ending.
My belief is that the 69th 'week' ended when Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey;
Zechariah 9:9 Daughter of Zion, rejoice... Shout in triumph...
See your King is coming to you, His cause won, His victory gained, humble and mounted on a donkey
.......
So, we differ on that then. I believe in Daniel 9:25, when it talks about the 69 (62 + the first 7) weeks leading up to the Messiah, it is talking about the time leading up to when He was first revealed as being the Messiah by John the Baptist.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” John 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.

So, I don't believe Daniel 9:25 is talking about the time leading up to when He rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.

Then; Daniel 9:26 After the sixty two [plus 7] have passed, the anointed Prince will be removed and no one will take His part......
The rest of verse 26 refers to the Roman conquest, 40 years later
Agree.

and then Daniel 9:27 prophesies what will happen in the 70th 'week', 1993 years after the 69th ended. 2000 years after the 69th, Jesus will Return to take up His rule of the world.
Disagree, as you already know.

As I've said before, I believe since Christ being cut off is crucial to the fulfillment of the things listed in Daniel 9:24 that were given 70 weeks to be fulfilled, then His death had to come within one of the 70 weeks. Which one could that be then? Not the 69th week because it says He was cut off after the 69th week. That places His death within the 70th week.
 
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keras

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Was Jesus wrong here to tell the paralyzed man that his sins were forgiven? You apparently would say that that man's sins won't be forgiven until Jesus returns. Jesus told him his sins were forgiven right then and there. Who should we believe? Jesus or you?
When we accept the Salvation offered by Jesus and we fervently repent of our sins, we have His promise of forgiveness.
But if our sins are forgiven at that time, then what about further sins, which we all do inadvertently or knowingly?
It isn't practical or logical to have sins wiped out in an ongoing basis.

No; What happens when we truly convert to Christianity: is our name is Written in the Book of Life. Malachi 3:16-18
Then at the final Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15, all sin is removed and immortality conferred. Revelation 21:27
 
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keras

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Disagree, as you already know.
But what Daniel 9:27 says bears no relation to what happened in the 1st Century. Where it does fit, is in Revelation, where the second half of the 70th 'week' is well prophesied.
The reason the first half is not mentioned in Rev., is because that time will be peaceful, things happen when the leader of the nations breaks his 7 year peace treaty and conquers Israel. Zechariah 14:1-2
 
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But what Daniel 9:27 says bears no relation to what happened in the 1st Century.
I could not possibly disagree more. During the 1st Century Jesus confirmed the new covenant which caused the old covenant animal sacrifices and sin offerings to cease having any purpose.
 
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Douggg

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To complete this mission, Christ willingly went to the cross at the 3 ½ year mark (He was “cutoff”).
Joe, the prophecy in v26 of the messiah being cutoff is after 69 weeks (7 weeks +62 weeks) - not 69 1/2 weeks.

You have the wrong covenant and the wrong person confirming it.
 
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Timtofly

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Please don't try to speak for me. You clearly don't understand the point I'm making, so just let me speak for myself.
I was not speaking for you. I was pointing out what you said in response to a post that questioned why I responded to your post the way I did.
 
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keras

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I could not possibly disagree more. During the 1st Century Jesus confirmed the new covenant which caused the old covenant animal sacrifices and sin offerings to cease having any purpose.
Your disagreement is based on faulty understanding.
The 'covenant' in Daniel 9:27, is not a Covenant, like what God made with Moses. It is a treaty, a fixed term agreement between two earthly parties.
That is clear from the verse and the poor translation of 'brith' as covenant, has led to much confusion.
 
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Timtofly

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It does seem odd that no Scripture in the NT indicates it ended if it's supposed to have already ended. It is as if no one at the time even cared that it ended, not even the Holy Spirit, since He is the one that inspired authors in the NT to write what they did, and that none of them bothered writing that the 70 weeks had ended. Obviously, it wouldn't be that Holy Spirit didn't care because He didn't inspire anyone to write that it ended, it's that the Holy Spirit is not going to inspire someone to write something that is not even true. Maybe that's why no one in the NT bothered mentioning that the entire 70 weeks had been fulfilled.
The closest thing we have is Revelation 10:6-7. Preterist will claim that was all wrapped up in the first century. If time, sin, the church, and the OT prophecies were all wrapped up in the first century, does that mean we have just been abandoned and running on charismatic opinion instead of the Holy Spirit since the first century?

There has to be gaps, because Gabriel said 7 weeks and 62 weeks and then Messiah was cut off.
 
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