Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

mkgal1 said:

I'm not skipping v25.

This illustration is representative of v. 25:

Daniel 9:25
Know and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

View attachment 298175

See the math?
Decree issued 457 BC
+ 7 weeks (49 years) = 408 BC

408 BC + 3 score 2 weeks (62 weeks or 434 years) = 26/27 AD Messiah’s anointing for His mission (baptism in Jordan River - also known as leading second exodus that's patterned after the original exodus out of Egyptian slavery by Moses).

Jesus's ministry is accepted to have been 3.5 years....Cross was 30 AD

The end of the Mosaic covenant (covenant made in flesh not adoption or Spirit) between Israelites and God was 34 AD

No longer were the Israelites that were formed "in the flesh" "God's people" exclusively any longer.

That is the end that was referred to.

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The problem is you are looking at the wrong decree. Ezra and Nehemiah explain how it happened.


"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem."

Nehemiah 7:1

"Now it came to pass, when the wall was built, and I had set up the doors, and the porters and the singers and the Levites were appointed,"

Nehemiah built the wall prior to this:

"Now when the copy of king Artaxerxes' letter was read before Rehum, and Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem unto the Jews, and made them to cease by force and power.

Then ceased the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem. So it ceased unto the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia."

The decree of Artexerxis stopped the building of the temple.

"Then Darius the king made a decree, and search was made in the house of the rolls, where the treasures were laid up in Babylon.

And there was found at Achmetha, in the palace that is in the province of the Medes, a roll, and therein was a record thus written:

In the first year of Cyrus the king the same Cyrus the king made a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof threescore cubits;"

Artexerxis stopped the work on the Temple by decree, but Artexerxis let Nehemiah build the wall.

4 Then the king said unto me, For what dost thou make request? So I prayed to the God of heaven.

5 And I said unto the king, If it please the king, and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldest send me unto Judah, unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it.

6 And the king said unto me, (the queen also sitting by him,) For how long shall thy journey be? and when wilt thou return? So it pleased the king to send me; and I set him a time.

7 Moreover I said unto the king, If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey me over till I come into Judah;

8 And a letter unto Asaph the keeper of the king's forest, that he may give me timber to make beams for the gates of the palace which appertained to the house, and for the wall of the city, and for the house that I shall enter into. And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.

9 Then I came to the governors beyond the river, and gave them the king's letters. Now the king had sent captains of the army and horsemen with me.


Which decree would restore and build Jerusalem? The one that allowed the Temple to be built, or Nehemiah given free reign to build a wall?

Spiritual Jew said:

Let's just look at one of those things. If Christ's death did not occur during any of the 70 weeks then how else can reconciliation for iniquity be accomplished?

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The messiah's death and rising from the grave on the third day is God's way by which iniquity can be atoned for.

It did happen. But the messiah's death does not have to be in the 70th week, only that it takes place before the 70th week time of the end vision and prophecy of the little horn. Reconciliation for iniquity of the house of Israel is when they embrace Jesus, and the gospel of Salvation in the time of the end, the latter days, latter years (Ezekiel 38 v 8, v16) .

Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus Himself speaking in the text following Armageddon, having returned to earth. Look at what he says about "iniquity" of the house of Israel. The Jew (Judaism) currently do not believe that Jesus is the Lord their God.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

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The Jews become believers in Jesus in the middle part of the seven years, in Revelation 12:10, after Satan is cast down to earth from the second heaven.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

mkgal1 said:

Except for the fact that we don't get to take liberty to add in our own ideas to Scripture and make our own edits to the story.

There is NO gap. Time doesn't stop. There are reasons for every detail. Instead of altering details in Scripture to fit our expectations.....we should change our expectations to fit Scripture.

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Time did not stop, but assignment of the 70 weeks determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem was suspended until time of the end to fulfill the vision and prophecy of the little horn.

Altering the details in Scriptures is something that was done on that chart you posted. There is nothing in Daniel 9 about the length of the messiah's ministry, nor about taking the gospel to the gentiles.
And certainly the 70 weeks did not conclude with the stoning of Stephen even as awful as it was.

That chart you posted has it's roots in covenant theology, which bases it dating on AD and BC of the gregorian calendar, called so because it was introduced in 1582 AD by Pope Gregory.

The chart you posted is the creative interpretation by the reformers
by whom covenant theology came about - which claims that the church has become Israel, and non-Jews become Jews by virtue of believing in Jesus.

Covenant theology is a man invented systematic approach based on the notion that understanding of the bible can be achieved by applying covenants as the basis for interpretation.

Later, when dispensationalism was invented by man, the new systematic approach clashed with the prior covenant theology approach, whereby in dispensationalism the church and Israel are separate entities.

So a war has been taking place ever since, which covenant theology attacks dispensationalism. And dispensationalism fights back.

I am not a dsipensationalist nor covenant theologist. I am a futurist in that I believe most of the prophecies regarding the end times still remain unfulfilled.

My chart is correct and fits with the understanding of when the messiah arrived and 4 days later cutoff, and rose from the grave the third day - all commemorated by the Church as Psalms Sunday, Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Easter Sunday.

My point is just be aware of where the chart you posted has it's roots - in Covenant Theology, a man-made systematic approach to the bible which came up with a complex interpretation of the bible to defend it's core thinking regarding the church having become Israel and non-Jews having become Jews by virtue of believing in Jesus.

mkgal1 said:

I will say that your computer graphic design is very well done (I'd love to learn your skills).

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I would say get a copy of Paintshop Pro and start playing around with it. The key is learn how to make cutouts to create layers, and place the layers on top of each other. And copy and paste.

I would say as your first learning to use attempt is to copy any picture on the internet, and paste it as a new image, and then start making cutouts and layers on it, draggin them around, resizing, etc, to become familiar with how to use the tools and features. It won't be long until every thing becomes automatic to you, with the learning struggle over.

In my case I had prior experience with Autocad, a different program which I would not recommend for you as it more expensive, not needed, and is aimed toward technical persons, back when it first came out - so layers use were common to me just as using verbs and nouns are to you in forming sentences.

Timtofly said:

The problem is you are looking at the wrong decree.

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"Wrong " according to whom.....and based on what?

The Church has recognized the decree given by Artaxerxes in 457 BC (Ezra 7:7-26).

Check out fellow poster, Christian Gedge's study in that area here (specifically, "the countdown to the Cross"):

https://www.5loaves2fishes.net/free-resources

Timtofly said:

The decree of Artexerxis stopped the building of the temple.

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Actually.....it *began* the whole process:

Douggg said:

In my case I had prior experience with Autocad

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We actually have Autocad, because my husband is a mechanical engineer....but I've never attempted to use it.

Thanks for the information, though. I may check out Paintshop Pro.

Douggg said:

The messiah's death and rising from the grave on the third day is God's way by which iniquity can be atoned for.

It did happen. But the messiah's death does not have to be in the 70th week, only that it takes place before the 70th week time of the end vision and prophecy of the little horn.

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You're not getting it. His death had to happen within one of the 70 weeks because it is crucial to the fulfillment of the reconciliation of iniquity (and other things mentioned in Daniel 9:24). Anything that happens outside of the 70 weeks is not part of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24.

In Daniel 9:24 it is clear that 70 weeks were given to accomplish those six things listed in that verse. Since Christ's death is required to fulfill the reconciliation for iniquity then it has to fall within one of the 70 weeks.

It says 70 weeks were given to accomplish those things including the reconciliation for iniquity. So, during which of the 70 weeks was He cut off? It says He was cut off after the 69th week (62 + 7), so that means He was cut off during the 70th week. He had to be cut off during one of the weeks because there is no reconciliation for iniquity without His shed blood.

mkgal1 said:

We actually have Autocad, because my husband is a mechanical engineer....but I've never attempted to use it.

Thanks for the information, though. I may check out Paintshop Pro.

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Okay there you go - you have a teacher in your husband on how to do layers, manipulate them etc, dragging them around, size manipulation etc. Paintshop Pro is available on Amazon. I would get the latest version.

Spiritual Jew said:

You're not getting it. His death had to happen within one of the 70 weeks because it is crucial to the fulfillment of the reconciliation of iniquity (and other things mentioned in Daniel 9:24). Anything that happens outside of the 70 weeks is not part of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24.

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It says after the 62 weeks in v26. It does not say in the 70th week.

reconciliation for Israel's rejection of the messiah does not happen until the time of end, and is in the text of Ezekiel 39.

@mkgal1 @Timtofly

Have you considered that the commandment was not by Cyrus, nor Artaxerxes, but from God the day of Daniel's prayer?

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Spiritual Jew said:

You're not getting it. His death had to happen within one of the 70 weeks because it is crucial to the fulfillment of the reconciliation of iniquity (and other things mentioned in Daniel 9:24).

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The Messiah being cutoff happened at the end point of the 69th 'week'.
Jesus' Triumphal entry into Jerusalem took place 3 days before the 'cut off'.
None of the six points listed in Daniel 9:24 are fulfilled yet. They all await the Return of Jesus, at the end of the 70th 'week;.

Douggg said:

It says after the 62 weeks in v26. It does not say in the 70th week.

reconciliation for Israel's rejection of the messiah does not happen until the time of end, and is in the text of Ezekiel 39.

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Jesus provided for their reconciliation long ago and many Jews have been saved since then.

Do you believe that His death on the cross is part of the fulfillment of the reconciliation for iniquity that is prophesied in Daniel 9:24? If so, then His death has to fall some time within 1 of the 70 weeks because it says 70 weeks were given in order to accomplish the reconciliation for iniquity along with five other things mentioned in that verse.

keras said:

The Messiah being cutoff happened at the end point of the 69th 'week'.

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No, it did not. You are blatantly contradicting scripture here.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

So, we have 69 weeks "unto the Messiah the Prince", which consists of the first 7 weeks and then the 62 weeks following that.

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

We know that the 62 (threescore and two) weeks occurred after the first 7 weeks, so this is saying He was cut off AFTER the 69th week. It couldn't be more clear. But, here you are contradicting scripture by saying it happened at the end of the 69th week instead of after like the text so clearly says.

Jesus' Triumphal entry into Jerusalem took place 3 days before the 'cut off'.

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Yeah, so? That doesn't change the fact that it says He would be cut off AFTER the 69th week ended.

None of the six points listed in Daniel 9:24 are fulfilled yet. They all await the Return of Jesus, at the end of the 70th 'week;.

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So, you think reconciliation for iniquity has not yet occurred? Really?

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

How about making an end of sins? Jesus didn't accomplish that?

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Spiritual Jew said:

Jesus provided for their reconciliation long ago and many Jews have been saved since then.

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Jesus provided God's way for reconciliation. Reconciliation for the individual takes place when a person embraces Jesus and the gospel of Salvation.

The Jews as whole (all Israel) have yet to embrace Jesus and the gospel of Salvation.

Spiritual Jew said:

Do you believe that His death on the cross is part of the fulfillment of the reconciliation for iniquity that is prophesied in Daniel 9:24? If so, then His death has to fall some time within 1 of the 70 weeks because it says 70 weeks were given in order to accomplish the reconciliation for iniquity along with five other things mentioned in that verse.

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Certainly Jesus's death and resurrection are necessary for atonement of sins. But to be in effect for anyone, a person has to believe in Jesus, his death on the cross, and rising from the dead on the third day.

The reconciliation for Daniel's people and Jerusalem does not take place until they embrace Jesus, and in Matthew 23:39 they will eventually say "blessed is he who comes in the name of Lord" in the end times. After a failed stint of thinking the Antichrist person is the messiah in the coming 70th week.

Douggg said:

Jesus provided God's way for reconciliation. Reconciliation for the individual takes place when a person embraces Jesus and the gospel of Salvation.

The Jews as whole (all Israel) have yet to embrace Jesus and the gospel of Salvation.

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The prophecy is all about the Messiah, Jesus, and what He would do for Israel. It's sad that you don't recognize this and instead your focus is on Israel itself. And nowhere does it say that all Israelites or Jews have to embrace Jesus in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

Certainly Jesus's death and resurrection are necessary for atonement of sins. But to be in effect for anyone, a person has to believe in Jesus, his death on the cross, and rising from the dead on the third day.

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Right, but His death and resurrection, at the very least, are partially necessary for the prophecy to be fulfilled, right? So, that means His death and resurrection have to occur within 1 of the 70 weeks given to accomplish atonement for sins (or reconciliation for iniquity, however you want to put it).

Spiritual Jew said:

The prophecy is all about the Messiah, Jesus, and what He would do for Israel.

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The vision that both Daniel and Gabriel referred to in v21-23 is that of the little horn time of the end vision and prophecy.

Spiritual Jew said:

Right, but His death and resurrection, at the very least, are partially necessary for the prophecy to be fulfilled, right? So, that means His death and resurrection have to occur within 1 of the 70 weeks given to accomplish atonement for sins (or reconciliation for iniquity, however you want to put it).

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As I have been saying before, people gloss over v21-23 and go right to v24 and start making their case.

It is critical to know what vision and prophecy both Daniel and Gabriel were referring to in v21-23 in understanding the 70 weeks.

The death of the messiah does not have to be within the assigned 70 weeks, but it has to be before fulfillment of the vision and prophecy of the little horn person begins.

I have both the time of the gentiles and time of the end on my chart.

Spiritual Jew said:

We know that the 62 (threescore and two) weeks occurred after the first 7 weeks, so this is saying He was cut off AFTER the 69th week. It couldn't be more clear.

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My chart has after the 69th week, the messiah was cutoff.



There has to be gap because the vision and prophecy of the little horn is time of the end.

And the gap has to start somewhere. In order to place the messiah cutoff as being after the 69 weeks, the gap has to begin at the end of the day that the messiah arrived in Jerusalem to fulfill the 483 years.

Douggg said:

The messiah's death and rising from the grave on the third day is God's way by which iniquity can be atoned for.

It did happen. But the messiah's death does not have to be in the 70th week

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It does.....because the 70th week is the end of the total 490 years.

Douggg said:

It says after the 62 weeks in v26. It does not say in the 70th week.

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I think you're neglecting to factor in the preceding 7 weeks prior (49 years). That would mean Messiah was "cut off" (on the Cross) after 69 weeks.

What number comes after 69?

Douggg said:

reconciliation for Israel's rejection of the messiah does not happen until the time of end, and is in the text of Ezekiel 39.

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The biblical Israelites had until the end of the 490 years. 34 AD *was* "the end" of the time determined for Daniel's people and for the city as the prophecy stated.

mkgal1 said:

I think you're neglecting to factor in the preceding 7 weeks prior (49 years). That would mean Messiah was "cut off" (on the Cross) after 69 weeks.

What comes after 69?

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The gap between the messiah's arrival in Jerusalem and the beginning of the 70th week in the time of the end.

mkgal1 said:

The biblical Israelites had until the end of the 490 years. 34 AD *was* "the end" of the time determined for Daniel's people and for the city as the prophecy stated.

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Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed 40 years after the messiah was cutoff. The Jews led away captives into the nations until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

I have both the destruction of the city and temple on my chart, and the time of the gentiles annotated.