Is faith a gift that only God can give us? (Note: I have an answer, but I would like input).

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Yes. God calls whom He wills and this started before the Bible was written. Faith is a Gift given by God alone and not of mans doing.

No. Again. Your not believing Romans 10:17. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing your Bible. You hearing your Bible. God is not going to have faith for you. God even commands us to have faith in Him. Jesus said to His disciples, “Have faith in God.” (Mark 11:22). This is not possible in your worldview and yet Jesus said it.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Yes. God calls whom He wills and this started before the Bible was written. Faith is a Gift given by God alone and not of mans doing.

Hebrews 11:6 says,
“But without faith it is impossible to please him:”

This sounds like the burden of faith rests on our own shoulders to believe or have faith because it is saying that without us having faith it is impossible to please Him (God). The verse goes on to say:

“Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6) (NLT).

The author does not say those who have been regenerated will come to Him and believe whereby they are able to please Him. The author is putting the burden on the reader to have faith and to believe that God exists and that He is a rewarder to those who seek Him.

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2021

I believe that faith could technically be considered a gift in the sense that if were not for God drawing us (John 6:44) and enabling us (John 6:65) we would never come to place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. I don't see faith as exclusively a matter of human decision or fatalistically determined by God. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We must make that choice. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. With that being said, I believe the gift in Ephesians 2:8 is salvation.

Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

SkyWriting · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Hebrews 11:6 says,
“But without faith it is impossible to please him:”

This sounds like the burden of faith rests on our own shoulders to believe or have faith because it is saying that without us having faith it is impossible to please Him (God). The verse goes on to say:

“Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him.” (Hebrews 11:6) (NLT).

The author does not say those who have been regenerated will come to Him and believe whereby they are able to please Him. The author is putting the burden on the reader to have faith and to believe that God exists and that He is a rewarder to those who seek Him.

The author did not have any of the gospel record to reference because it was published after his death.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

Danthemailman said:
I believe that faith could technically be considered a gift in the sense that if were not for God drawing us (John 6:44) and enabling us (John 6:65) we would never come to place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. I don't see faith as exclusively a matter of human decision or fatalistically determined by God. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We must make that choice. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. With that being said, I believe the gift in Ephesians 2:8 is salvation.

Ephesians 2:8 (AMPC) - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God.

In regards to John 6:44:

John 6:45 says, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

In other words: Every man (the Jew) who has HEARD (listened to God through obeying God's commands) and has learned of the Father (loving others - Matthew 5:43-48) comes unto me (i.e. Jesus).

John 6:45 is clear in that this is not in reference to unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. This is in reference to those Jews who had a relationship with God because they heard and learned of the Father. THESE are the ones who are drawn by the Father to come to Jesus. Not just anybody!

Side Note:

As for the phrase, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.”: This is in reference to Isaiah 54:13-14 that says:

“And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.” (Isaiah 54:13-14).

Meaning, this is in reference to God's children who are established in righteousness (i.e. in seeking God's grace, and in living holy unto the Lord). So John 6:45 is in reference to Jews who have a relationship with God the Father. This is the context of John 6:44. So this is not some kind of forced thing going on (i.e. anti-free will) involving those who do not believe when it says draw. John 6:44 is referring to how no Jew can come to Jesus without first hearing and learning from the Father beforehand (John 6:45).

Romans 10:21 says, “But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.”

This was said to Israel. God is stretching forth His hands to a disobedient people in desiring them to repent and or change. For why else would God be reaching out to the Israelite people? It's His desire to see them saved. That's why? But it is ultimately up to them to decide. It's their choice. For if this was not the case, then Romans 10:21 would not exist in our Holy Bible.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

SkyWriting said:
The author did not have any of the gospel record to reference because it was published after his death.

So some parts of the Bible are in error then? If so, that is very convenient. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness (See: 2 Timothy 3:16).

I believe in the Holy Bible, and not a holey bible.

SkyWriting · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
No. Again. Your not believing Romans 10:17. Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing your Bible.

Paul wrote Romans, but had no New Testament himself. So this falsifies your claim. We would have to erase all the gospel record being written by people without a New Testament Bible.
And this would eliminate the faith of the Old Testament prophets as well, if you were correct.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Paul wrote Romans, but had no New Testament himself. So this falsifies your claim.

God is the ultimate author of Scripture and He knew what He was doing when the canon of Scripture was finished. God can see the future. God is not going to give us a Word that is inconsistent. God is not the author of confusion. Your idea of the New Testament canon is not consistent or all trustworthy.

SkyWriting · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
God is the ultimate author of Scripture and He knew what He was doing when the canon of Scripture was finished. God can see the future. God is not going to give us a Word that is inconsistent. God is not the author of confusion. Your idea of the New Testament canon is not consistent or all trustworthy.

You claim is that Faith comes from "The Bible" which is not correct. In fact the Bible says that the bible is not even needed to communicate all you need to know about God. So there's that. Then there are the billions who have never had access to a Bible. So there's that.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 27, 2021

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The gospel is shown preached before in Abraham, the law came after, it was added until the seed should come, and does not set aside that which was shown before in Abraham by promise

BBAS 64 · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
No. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that the reason those who perish are perishing is because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. There is no MIGHT BE SAVED in Calvinism.

Good Day,

Really poor handling of the written text to take a verse out of context especially when they start with (and)

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved

John Gill Note: Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved; by the "truth" is meant either Christ the truth of types, the sum of promises, in whom the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are, and by whom grace and truth came; or the Gospel, often called truth, and the word of truth, it coming from the God of truth, has for its subject Christ the truth, is dictated and directed into by the spirit of truth, and contains nothing but truth: and by "the love" of it is meant, either the loveliness of it, for truth is an amiable, lovely thing, in its nature and use; or an affection for it, which there is, where true faith in it is, for faith works by love: there may be a flashy affection for the truths of the Gospel, where there is no true faith in Christ, or the root of the matter is not, as in the stony ground hearers; and there may be an historical faith in the doctrines of the Gospel, where the power of them is denied, and there is no true hearty love for them; and in these persons there is neither faith nor love; the truths of the Gospel are neither believed by them, nor are they affected with them, that so, they might be saved; for where there is true faith in the Gospel of Christ, and in Christ the substance of it, there is salvation; the reason therefore of these men's perishing is not the decree of God, nor even want of the means of grace, the revelation of the Gospel, but their rejection and contempt of it.

They love darkness and hate light.... And have not been given a new heart, ears to hear, repentance, or Faith to believe.

In Him,

Bill

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

SkyWriting said:
You claim is that Faith come from "The Bible" which is not correct. In fact the Bible says that the bible is not even needed to communicate all you need to know about God.

So you establish faith without the Bible? So throw away your Bible, and what do you got? Nothing. You cannot make up your own faith or version of Jesus without the Bible. The faith is everything in your Bible. For what exactly are you believing in if you don't have the Bible?

SkyWriting · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
God is the ultimate author of Scripture and He knew what He was doing when the canon of Scripture was finished. God can see the future. God is not going to give us a Word that is inconsistent. God is not the author of confusion. Your idea of the New Testament canon is not consistent or all trustworthy.

Now we are getting to the brass tacks. God put his laws into our hearts by way of the Holy Spirit, and no Bible is needed. According to the Bible.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day,

Really poor handling of the written text to take a verse out of context especially when they start with (and)

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved

John Gill Note: Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved; by the "truth" is meant either Christ the truth of types, the sum of promises, in whom the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are, and by whom grace and truth came; or the Gospel, often called truth, and the word of truth, it coming from the God of truth, has for its subject Christ the truth, is dictated and directed into by the spirit of truth, and contains nothing but truth: and by "the love" of it is meant, either the loveliness of it, for truth is an amiable, lovely thing, in its nature and use; or an affection for it, which there is, where true faith in it is, for faith works by love: there may be a flashy affection for the truths of the Gospel, where there is no true faith in Christ, or the root of the matter is not, as in the stony ground hearers; and there may be an historical faith in the doctrines of the Gospel, where the power of them is denied, and there is no true hearty love for them; and in these persons there is neither faith nor love; the truths of the Gospel are neither believed by them, nor are they affected with them, that so, they might be saved; for where there is true faith in the Gospel of Christ, and in Christ the substance of it, there is salvation; the reason therefore of these men's perishing is not the decree of God, nor even want of the means of grace, the revelation of the Gospel, but their rejection and contempt of it.

They love darkness and hate light.... And have not been given a new heart, ears to hear, repentance, or Faith to believe.

In Him,

Bill

I am not in to Calvinist commentators. Besides, he did not address the problem that this verse presents towards Calvinism.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 says,
“and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Notice the words of this verse. THEY did not receive the love of the truth. This is the reason why they are perishing. It does not say they are perishing because God did not elect them. It says they are perishing because THEY received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. There is no MIGHT BE SAVED in Calvinism. There is no possibility of being saved in Calvinism. There is only the saved elect and the unsaved non-elect. The MIGHT BE SAVED needs to be crossed off with a black magic marker by the Calvinist because it does not alight with his beliefs.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Now we are getting to the brass tacks. God put his laws into our hearts by way of the Holy Spirit, and no Bible is needed. According to the Bible.

So you can be saved by God's laws in your heart without ever hearing about the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? You can be saved by not knowing about salvation in Jesus Christ according to the Bible?

Danthemailman · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
In regards to John 6:44:

John 6:45 says, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”

In other words: Every man (the Jew) who has HEARD (listened to God through obeying God's commands) and has learned of the Father (loving others - Matthew 5:43-48) comes unto me (i.e. Jesus).

John 6:45 is clear in that this is not in reference to unbelieving Jews or unbelieving Gentiles. This is in reference to those Jews who had a relationship with God because they heard and learned of the Father. THESE are the ones who are drawn by the Father to come to Jesus. Not just anybody!

Side Note:

As for the phrase, “It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.”: This is in reference to Isaiah 54:13-14 that says:

“And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.” (Isaiah 54:13-14)...

The teaching of God's word is designed to draw people to Christ. In John 6:45-46, we read - "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me." The quotation from Isaiah 54:13 is in the context of God wooing Israel back to Himself. (Isaiah 54:6)

The process is that God teaches, people hear and learn, then people respond by coming to Christ for salvation (In John, the phrase "come to" Christ obviously refers to coming to Him in faith for salvation. (John 5:40, 6:35,37,65; 7:37) Only those who have first listened and learned believe unto salvation.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

2BeholdHisGlory said:
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

The gospel is shown preached before in Abraham, the law came after, it was added until the seed should come, and does not set aside that which was shown before in Abraham by promise

So does God force faith upon a person? Or is faith something naturally all mankind has the capacity to exercise or initiate himself? I believe faith today comes by hearing the Bible because without the Bible we would not be able to have any kind of faith.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

Danthemailman said:
The teaching of God's word is designed to draw people to Christ. In John 6:45-46, we read - "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me." The quotation from Isaiah 54:13 is in the context of God wooing Israel back to Himself. (Isaiah 54:6)

The process is that God teaches, people hear and learn, then people respond by coming to Christ for salvation (In John, the phrase "come to" Christ obviously refers to coming to Him in faith for salvation. (John 5:40, 6:35,37,65; 7:37) Only those who have first listened and learned believe unto salvation.

It sounds like you disagree and yet it appears like you repeating what I said. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

BBAS 64 · Apr 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I am not in to Calvinist commentators. Besides, he did not address the problem that this verse presents towards Calvinism.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 says,
“and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Notice the words of this verse. THEY did not receive the love of the truth. This is the reason why they are perishing. It does not say they are perishing because God did not elect them. It says they are perishing because THEY received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. There is no MIGHT BE SAVED in Calvinism. There is no possibility of being saved in Calvinism. There is only the saved elect and the unsaved non-elect. The MIGHT BE SAVED needs to be crossed off with a black magic marker by the Calvinist because it does not alight with his beliefs.

Good Day

They did not receive it it was not given (granted) to them.

They have not faith, because they were not grated it. Not sure why you find this so hard to understand.

Not sure what this has to do with (nick name -Calvinism) more formally know as the gospel.

You assume the issue, when there is not one that is a strawman fallacy. Noticed the KJV translation used here, not a bad translation for a bunch of high church Calvinist. You agree?

In Him,

Bill

Bible Highlighter · Apr 27, 2021

BBAS 64 said:
Good Day

They did not receive it it was not given (granted) to them.

They have not faith, because they were not grated it. Not sure why you find this so hard to understand.

No. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 does not say that they are perishing because they did not have the capacity to receive the love of the truth because they were not elected or chosen. It says they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. Again, not sure how those three words fit in your worldview.

Not sure what this has to do with (nick name -Calvinism) more formally know as the gospel.

Well, if you are saying Calvinism is the gospel, then you are preaching another gospel then. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel. It's surely not Calvinism.

You said:
You assume the issue, when there is not one that is a strawman fallacy. Noticed the KJV translation used here, not a bad translation for a bunch of high church Calvinist. You agree?

In Him,

Bill

Oh, and so now the Bible is in error if it does not agree with what we believe or have been taught?

Is faith a gift that only God can give us? (Note: I have an answer, but I would like input).

Is faith a gift that only God can give to us?

Yes (Only God can give us the gift of faith).

No (God already makes man with the capacity to excercise faith without any help from God).

Other (Please explain)

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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