An Adventist view of the Sabbath Commandment - and why it is applicable to all mankind

imge said:

Read #218

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boughtwithaprice said:

that is absolutely not the case. As Paul has said, what then? shall we sin more that grace may more abound? God forbid! Romans 6:1-2

and in the letter to the Hebrews

[26] For if we sin willfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries.

Jesus said in the Gospel of Matthew:

[21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. [24] Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, [25] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.

[26] And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, [27] And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.

You cannot ask God to get into heaven and stay in your sins. You must ask God to cleanse you of your sin, so that you can get into heaven. The call is to repent and believe the Gospel, not believe in Jesus and sin all you want

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imge said:

So God's will is different for different people?

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imge said:

The only scripture spoken and personally written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless Read #218

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bbbbbbb said:

Really? What makes you think that God has written only ten of his commandments to Israel on the heart of each individual of the human race today? I would be entirely at a loss to discover that even these ten are known and understood by the vast majority of Americans, much less Chinese, people.

I always find it amusing when I interact with extreme conservative members of the Republican party who ardently insist on establishing the Ten Commandments as enforceable law in the United States. I ask them to tell me these commandments and I have yet to encounter one who has memorized them. Frequently, they insert a prohibition against homosexuality.

Which brings me to my next aspect of your curious post. I suppose you encourage and support homosexuality, incest, and inappropriate behavior with animals, none of which are proscribed in the Ten Commandments.

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bbbbbbb said:

That is quite obviously the case. God's will for Israel was, and is, entirely different than for, say, the Chinese people. God never asked or commanded any of the Gentile nations to circumcise their sons as a sign of the covenant He made with them on Mount Sinai, simply because God did not make any covenant with any of the Gentile peoples at any time during the Old Testament period.

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Danthemailman said:

Amen! Yet this does not mean that we are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time. (1 John 1:8-10)

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, (I will never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago) I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, oh my goodness! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that obtaining salvation is based on works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers/pseudo Christians) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous may do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ - John 17:3) which stemmed from not believing/trusting exclusively in Him for salvation. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. Only those who truly believe in Him unto salvation are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus.

It's not about sinning all we want or sinless perfection.

1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Those who repent (change their mind) and believe the Gospel are trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16) Trusting in works for salvation is not trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

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bbbbbbb said:

Was I responding to your post? Are you Bob Ryan?

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boughtwithaprice said:

Its not trusting in works that saves, but trusting in Jesus produces works. If not, then as James says, faith without works is dead.

revelation 3:20 states that Christ stands at the door and knocks, if we open the door, He will come in.

Ezekiel 36 states:

[26] And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit in the midst of you: and I will cause you to walk in my commandments, and to keep my judgments, and do them.

Matthew 7 states:

[7] Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. [8] For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened.

God knows that we are powerless to stop sinning on our own, but we can recognize our sin and repent and ask God, not just to forgive and look the other way, but to cleanse us from all unrighteousness here and now. We do not just give up and keep on sinning and think we will get a pass. God wants you to ask Him for His help to stop

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imge said:

God said thou shalt not murder? Just for Israel? What about about not taking His name in vain? Is that okay for Gentiles but not Jews? Worshipping other gods okay for everyone else but Jews? God's TEN are a unit and can not be replaced or erased and are meant for all of us.

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Danthemailman said:

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony* View attachment 298173

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boughtwithaprice said:

it is perfect harmony, but too many neglect to ask for good works or remain in their sins thinking,” Christ has already done everything on the cross so why should I do anything?”
That is not Christianity, that is antinomianism, which was the doctrine of the nicolaitans, as mentioned in Revelation.
We lack any power to do good works apart from the grace of God, but that is not a reason to neglect so great a salvation. You need grace to do good works? Then ask God. You need the grace to repent and turn from your sins? Then ask God. He gives you the power to do it when you ask. Any religion that tells you to rest in your sins and let Christ do the work is deceiving you. Christ tells us to repent and believe the Gospel, and He gives us the grace to do it, if we ask
We are not saved by our works, but we won’t be saved as an unrepentant that just says Jesus Jesus Lord Lord

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Danthemailman said:

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and they are not always easy to tell apart, but Jesus knows the hearts of all men. I don't know any Christian church that teaches sin all you want/rest in your sins/live like the devil etc.. because it does not matter and that is certainly not what I'm teaching.

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bbbbbbb said:

This is what is called the strawman argument. boughtwithaprice trotted out the silly accusation in order to divert you from your point.

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boughtwithaprice said:

I don’t know why you call it a straw man argument, when I did not contradict him. It was neither an accusation nor silly.
He says genuine faith is substantiated by works, and I agree with him. The question is what will the works of the genuine Christian be, of which he speaks? I have seen the nominal Christians of which he speaks, and it makes me sad.

St Basil said it best in the fourth century.

That they who believe I the Lord must first do penance according to the preaching of John and of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself; for they who do not penance now will receive a harsher sentence than those who were condemned before the time of the Gospel.
Matt 4:17; Matt 11:20-22

That this present life is the time for penance and for the remission of sins; in the life to come, the just judgement of retribution will take place.
Mark 2:10, Matt 18:18; John 5:28,29; Rom 2:4-6; Acts 17:30,31.

That the penitents should weep bitterly and show forth from their heart all the other appropriate works of penance.
Matt 26:75, 2Cor 7:6,7-11; Acts 19:18,19.

The mere renouncement of sin is not sufficient for the salvation of penitents, but fruits worthy of penance are also required of them.
Matt 3:7-10.

That after departure from this life there is no opportunity for good deeds, since God in His forbearance has provided the present life for doing those things that please Him.
Matt 25:1-12, Luke 13:24,25; 2Cor 6:2-4; Gal 6:10.

Is there anything there with which you disagree?

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boughtwithaprice said:

it is perfect harmony, but too many neglect to ask for good works or remain in their sins thinking,” Christ has already done everything on the cross so why should I do anything?”
That is not Christianity, that is antinomianism, which was the doctrine of the nicolaitans, as mentioned in Revelation.
We lack any power to do good works apart from the grace of God, but that is not a reason to neglect so great a salvation. You need grace to do good works? Then ask God. You need the grace to repent and turn from your sins? Then ask God. He gives you the power to do it when you ask. Any religion that tells you to rest in your sins and let Christ do the work is deceiving you. Christ tells us to repent and believe the Gospel, and He gives us the grace to do it, if we ask
We are not saved by our works, but we won’t be saved as an unrepentant that just says Jesus Jesus Lord Lord

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AdamjEdgar said:

Let me just ensure i have this right, Antimonianism is

"In some Christian belief systems, an antinomian is one who takes the principle of salvation by faith and divine grace to the point of asserting that the saved are not bound to follow the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments.[2][3]

What i find interesting about the Sabbath debate is that one can somehow manage to claim one is not Antimonian (which to me seems to be heresy from a Catholic perspective) and yet ignore Matthew 5:19 and throw out and therefore break the Sabbath Commandment?

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