God Is a Physical Being

JAL

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Maybe it will help if I break down the basic logic for you:

God, including the Holy Spirit HAS to be a natural being because:
  • It doesn't make sense to me, JAL, if He is not
  • Everything about God must make complete sense to me
  • Therefore, God must be 100% understandable to me...


  • Excellent so far. Yes, if God is incomprehensible to human understanding:
(1) Theology is pointless. No one should preach anything if we can't comprehend God.
(2) We have no hope because we have no sure understanding of religion.

Therefore, if I can understand God, and He is like me, then I am no different than God
Metaphysically? Or in terms of virtue? I've got news for you. God is not a snob. He wouldn't consider Himself better than you - more worthy of praise - on account of any metaphysical differences (and there aren't any). If you want to understand why God merits praise, take a look at post 437. In a nutshell, God expects praise only on account of His virtue. I'm sorry that your values are so skewed and confused as to imagine otherwise.
 
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JAL

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Psalm 33
Easy-to-Read Version

33 Rejoice in the Lord, good people!
It is only right for good people to praise him.
2 Play the lyre and praise the Lord.
Play the ten-stringed harp for him.
3 Sing a new song to him.
Play it well and sing it loud!
4 The Lord’s word is true,
and he is faithful in everything he does.
5 He loves goodness and justice.
The Lord’s faithful love fills the earth.
6 The Lord spoke the command, and the world was made.
The breath from his mouth created everything in the heavens.

7 He gathered together the water of the sea.
He put the ocean in its place.
8 Everyone on earth should fear and respect the Lord.
All the people in the world should fear him,
9 because when he speaks, things happen.
And if he says, “Stop!”—then it stops.
10 The Lord can ruin every decision the nations make.
He can spoil all their plans.
11 But the Lord’s decisions are good forever.
His plans are good for generation after generation.
12 Great blessings belong to those who have the Lord as their God!
He chose them to be his own special people.
13 The Lord looked down from heaven
and saw all the people.
14 From his high throne he looked down
at all the people living on earth.
15 He created every person’s mind,
and he knows what each one is doing.
16 A king is not saved by the power of his army.
A soldier does not survive by his own great strength.
17 Horses don’t really bring victory in war.
Their strength cannot help you escape.
18 The Lord watches over his followers,
those who wait for him to show his faithful love.
19 He saves them from death.
He gives them strength when they are hungry.
20 So we will wait for the Lord.
He helps us and protects us.
21 He makes us happy.
We trust his holy name.
22 Lord, we worship you,
so show your great love for us.


In verse 6,

"breath from his mouth" and word "Command" is a Hebrew Parallel that has the same meaning. The text text does not refer to the Holy Spirit.
The divine Word/Breath of his mouth is not a Person? Sorry that's heresy.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Missed the point of the argument. The TITLES of God do not change. If you translate a title as "Father" or "Son", for example, you must be consistent in ALL passages. You just don't want to face the facts.

Both Fallacies relates to removing the word Spirit from "holy spirit" and mistranslated as "holy breath" breath is not a person, nor is it the name or title of the "Holy Spirit". When you explained how you misinterpreted that way, You were committing word study fallacies. plain and simple.
 
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JAL

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You are confused friend. None of the texts you quoted has "holy" with the word breath and it is Hebrew, not Greek.

I am standing with the well known Translators, who have studies professionally, academic for decades.
Repeatedly asserting what is in debate is NOT an argument. But it does demonstrate your superb ability to create strawmen.
 
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JAL

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Both Fallacies relates to removing the word Spirit from "holy spirit" and mistranslated as "holy breath" breath is not a person, nor is it the name or title of the "Holy Spirit". When you explained how you misinterpreted that way, You were committing word study fallacies. plain and simple.
There are 100 undisputed instances of ruach/pneuma as wind/breath. There is zero biblical evidence for translating it as "magical immaterial spirit".
 
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Daniel Marsh

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The divine Word/Breath of his mouth is not a Person? Sorry that's heresy.

In verse 6,

"breath from his mouth" and word "Command" is a Hebrew Parallel that has the same meaning. The text text does not refer to the Holy Spirit.

"Synonymous parallelism is a literary device often used in Hebrew poetry that involves the repetition of the same idea in two different ways."
 
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JAL

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In verse 6,

"breath from his mouth" and word "Command" is a Hebrew Parallel that has the same meaning. The text text does not refer to the Holy Spirit.

"Synonymous parallelism is a literary device often used in Hebrew poetry that involves the repetition of the same idea in two different ways."
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1). Sounds like a Person to me. Take your heresy elsewhere. I'm not interested.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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There are 100 undisputed instances of ruach/pneuma as wind/breath. There is zero biblical evidence for translating it as "magical immaterial spirit".

And now you are committing the word study fallacy I pointed out.

The One Meaning Fallacy:

This fallacy occurs when one concludes that a word means only one thing everywhere and anywhere. Often, it is argued that one specific Greek or Hebrew word should always be translated by the same English word."
Word-Study Fallacies
 
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This word is used 385 times:

< Previous 1 2 3 4 5 ... 7 8 Next >
Luke 2:26: "by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before"
Luke 2:27: "he came by the Spirit into the temple: and"
Luke 2:40: "grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace"
Luke 3:16: "you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"
Luke 3:22: "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like"
Luke 4:1: "Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and"
Luke 4:1: "was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,"
Luke 4:14: "the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out"
Luke 4:18: " The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me"
Luke 4:33: "there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out"
Luke 4:36: "power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out."
Luke 6:18: "they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed."
Luke 7:21: "plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave"
Luke 8:2: "healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called"
Luke 8:29: "he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man."
Luke 8:55: "And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and"
Luke 9:39: "And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out;"
Luke 9:42: "Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the"
Luke 9:55: "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are"
Luke 10:20: "not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather"
Luke 10:21: "hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee,"
Luke 11:13: "shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"
Luke 11:24: "When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh"
Luke 11:26: "taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in,"
Luke 12:10: "unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."
Luke 12:12: "For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the"
Luke 13:11: "there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen"
Luke 23:46: "hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
Luke 24:37: "affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit."
Luke 24:39: "and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and"
John 1:32: "saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like"
John 1:33: "whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining"
John 1:33: "is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."
John 3:5: "of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into"
John 3:6: "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
John 3:6: "the Spirit is spirit."
John 3:8: "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the"
John 3:8: "every one that is born of the Spirit."
John 3:34: "giveth not the Spirit by measure"
John 4:23: "the Father in spirit and in truth: for the"
John 4:24: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in"
John 4:24: "must worship him in spirit and in truth."
John 6:63: "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth"
John 6:63: "speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
John 7:39: "spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him"
John 7:39: "receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus"
John 11:33: "her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled."
John 13:21: "had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said,"
John 14:17: "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot"
John 14:26: "Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send"

Strongs's #4151: pneuma - Greek/Hebrew Definitions - Bible Tools
 
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In Hebrew, wider range of meaning based on context.

Brown-Driver-Briggs
רוּחַ378 noun feminineGenesis 41:8 (less often masculineExodus 10:13 +) breath, wind, spirit; — absolute ׳ר Genesis 8:1 +, ר֑וּחָה Jeremiah 52:23; construct רוּחַ Genesis 6:17 +; suffix רוּחִי Genesis 6:3 +, רוּחֲךָ Psalm 104:30 +, etc.; plural רוּחוֺת Psalm 104:4 +, רֻחוֺת Jeremiah 49:36, רוּחֹת Numbers 16:22; Numbers 26:16 (see Brרוח in O.T., JBL xix (1900), 132 ff., full statement of all passages); —
1 breath of mouth or nostrils (33 t.):

a. רוּחַ מִּיו Job 15:30 breath of his mouth, compare Job 19:17; רוּחַ אַמֵּינוּ Lamentations 4:20 (figurative of king), of idols לֹא רוּחַ בָּם Jeremiah 10:14 = Jeremiah 51:17, Habakkuk 2:19; Psalm 135:17; compare Job 9:18.

b. as mere breath: compare 2e. דִּבְרֵירֿוּחַ Job 16:3 i.e. windy words; נוֺאָשׁ לְרוּחַ אִמְרֵי Job 6:26, הַנְּבִיאִים יִהְיוּ לְרוּחַ Jeremiah 5:13.

c. as word of command: (1) of God: (נעשׂו) בְּרוּחַ מִּיו כָּלֿ צְבָאָםPsalm 33:6, compare Isaiah 34:16 ("" מֶּה); (2) of Messianic king: בְּרוּחַ שְׂפָתָיו יָמִית רָשָׁע Isaiah 11:4.

d. as hard breathing through the nostrils in anger: (1) of God: מֵרוּח אַמּוֺ יִכְלוּ Job 4:9; Exodus 15:8 (poem), 2 Samuel 22:16 = Psalm 18:16; Isaiah 30:28; Isaiah 59:19; (2) of man: רוּחַ עָרִיצִים Isaiah 25:4.

e. as sign and symbol of life: רוּחַ חַיִּים breath of life Genesis 6:17; Genesis 7:15 (P); נִשְׁמַת רוּחַ חַיִּים בְּאַמָּיו Genesis 7:22 (P); Ezekiel 37:5, compare Ezekiel 37:6; Ezekiel 37:8; Ezekiel 37:9; Ezekiel 37:9; Ezekiel 37:9; Ezekiel 37:10; Ezekiel 37:14 (breath or spirit), Ecclesiastes 3:19.

2 wind (117 t.):

a. wind of heaven: Genesis 8:1 (P) Exodus 15:10 (E) Numbers 11:31 (J) 1 Kings 18:45 +, Jeremiah 10:13, thence Jeremiah 51:16; Psalm 135:7; ׳רוּחַ י Hosea 13:15; Isaiah 40:7, compare Job 26:13 (Di Bu); רוּחַ (ה)קָדִים east wind Exodus 10:13 (twice in verse); Exodus 14:21 (J) Psalm 48:8; Jeremiah 18:17; Ezekiel 17:10; Ezekiel 19:12; Ezekiel 27:26; Jonah 4:8; צָפוֺן ׳ר north wind Proverbs 25:23; יָם ׳ר sea wind (west wind) Exodus 10:19 (J); . הַיּוֺם ׳ר day wind, evening wind Genesis 3:8 (J; compare Songs 2:17; Songs 4:6); אַרְבַּע רוּחוֺת four winds Jeremiah 49:36; Ezekiel 37:9 (quarters?) Daniel 8:8; Daniel 11:4 (figurative quarters; compare

b), Zechariah 2:10; Zechariah 6:5; רוּחַ סְעְרָה storm wind Psalm 107:25; Psalm 148:8; Ezekiel 1:4 (סְעָרוֺת ׳ר), Ezekiel 13:11,13; רוּחַ סֹעָה rushing wind Psalm 55:9 (read possibly סערה Hup); בַּעְיָם רוּחוֺ Isaiah 11:15 (read ׳בְּעֹצֶם ר, see עֲיָם, עֹצֶם), etc; wind personified: כַּנְפֵי רוּחַ 2 Samuel 22:11 = Psalm 18:11; Psalm 104:3, compare Hosea 4:19; Psalm 104:4.

b. quarter (of wind), side: רוּחַ הַקָּדִים Ezekiel 42:16 east side; רוּחַ הַצָּפוֺן Ezekiel 42:17 north side; רוּחַ הַדָּרוֺם Ezekiel 42:18 south side; רוּחַ הַיָּם Ezekiel 42:19 west side; אַרְבַּע רוּחוֺת Ezekiel 42:20; 1 Chronicles 9:24 four sides; ר֑וּחָה Jeremiah 52:23 on the sides.

c. breath of air: שָׁאֲפוּ רוּחַ כַּתַּנִּים Jeremiah 14:6; רוּחַ לֹא יָבֹא בֵּינֵיהֶם Job 41:8.

d. air, gas, from womb (dubious): כְּמוֺ יָלַדְנוּ רוּחַ Isaiah 26:18 (Di, e); רוּחֲכֶם אֵשׁ תֹּאכַלְכֶם (RV breath) Isaiah 33:11 (Du, 3c).

e. vain, empty thing: רוּחַיָּי֑ Job 7:7 my life is wind; דַּעַת רוּחַ Job 15:2; רוּחַ וָתֹהוּ נִסְכֵּיהֶם Isaiah 41:29; רְעוּת רוּחַ striving for wind Ecclesiastes 1:14; Ecclesiastes 2:11,17,26; Ecclesiastes 4:4,6; Ecclesiastes 6:9; compare Ecclesiastes 1:17; Ecclesiastes 4:16; Ecclesiastes 5:15.

3 spirit, as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation = temper, disposition (76 t.; so, distinctively, as compared with נֶפֶשׁ and לֵבָב):

a. spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour: לֹא הָיָה בָהּ עוֺד רוּחַ 1 Kings 10:5 2Chronicles 9:4; מַהזֶּֿה רוּחֲךָ סָרָה 1 Kings 21:5; וַתְּחִי רוּחַ Genesis 45:27 (E); וַתָּשָׁב רוּחוֺ Judges 15:19; 1 Samuel 30:12.

b. courage: ׳לֹא הָיָה בָם עוֺד ר Joshua 5:1; נְגִידִים ׳יִבְצֹר ר Psalm 76:13; מִצְרַיִם ׳וְנָָֽבְקָה ר Isaiah 19:3; תתעטּף רוּחִי Psalm 77:4; Psalm 142:4; Psalm 143:4; לֹא קָמָה ׳עוֺד ר Joshua 2:11; אִישׁ יְכַלְכֵּל מַחֲלֵהוּ ׳ר Proverbs 18:14.
 
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c. temper, especially anger: ׳רוּחַ רָעָה בֵּין וגו Judges 9:23; אָז רָֽפְתָה רוּחָם Judges 8:3; משֵׁל בְּרוּחוֺ Proverbs 16:32, compare Proverbs 25:28; Proverbs 29:11; Job 15:13; הֵנִיחוּ אֶתרֿוּחִי Zechariah 6:8; Ecclesiastes 7:9; Ecclesiastes 10:4.

d. impatience or patience: קֹצֶר רוּחַ Exodus 6:9 (P) impatience, hastiness of temper, compare (of ׳י) Micah 2:7; קְצַררֿוּחַ Proverbs 14:29 ("" אֶרֶךְ אַפַיִם); הֱצִיקַתְנִי רוּחַ בִּטְנִי Job 32:18 (Du breath; Di Bu divine spirit, compare Job 32:8); אִם מַדּוּעַ לֹאתִֿקְצַר רוּחִי Job 21:4; ׳הֲקָצַר רוּחַ י Micah 2:7; ׳אֶרֶךְ ר Ecclesiastes 7:8.

e. spirit, disposition, as troubled, bitter, or discontented; וַתִּמָּעֶם רוּח(וׅ (his) spirit was troubled Genesis 41:8 (E) Daniel 2:3, compare Daniel 2:1; מֹרַת רוּחַ Genesis 26:35 (P) bitterness of spirit; ׳עֲצוּבַת ר Isaiah 54:6, compare Ezekiel 3:14; Job 6:4.

f. as crushed: וְכִהֲתָה כָלרֿוּחַ Ezekiel 21:12, compare Isaiah 61:3; Proverbs 15:4,13; Proverbs 17:22; Proverbs 18:14; Psalm 143:7.

g. disposition of various kinds, often unaccountable and uncontrollable impulse: הֵעִיר אֶתרֿוּחַ 1 Chronicles 5:26 (twice in verse); 2Chronicles 21:16; 36:22; Ezra 1:1,5; Jeremiah 51:11; Haggai 1:14 (3 t. in verse); הִנְנִי נ(וֺ)תֵן בּוֺ רוּח2Kings 19:7 = Isaiah 37:7; Numbers 14:24 (J; see עִם 4b), Malachi 2:15 (twice in verse); Malachi 2:16; Deuteronomy 2:30; רוּחַ קִנְאָה jealous disposition Numbers 5:14 (twice in verse); Numbers 5:30 (P); רוּחַ וְנוּנִים Hosea 4:12; Hosea 5:4; רוּחַ עִוְעִיםIsaiah 19:14; רוּחַ מִשְׁמָּט Isaiah 28:6; אִישׁ אֲשֶׁר רוּחַ אֱלהִֹרם בּוֺ (administrative) Genesis 41:38 (E); קַר רוּחַ אִישׁ הְּבוּנָה Proverbs 17:27.

h. prophetic spirit: יְהוֺשֻׁעַ אִישׁ אֲשֶׁרֿ רוּחַ בּזֹNumbers 27:18 (P; or

g, as Genesis 41:38); רוּחַ אֵלִיָּהוּ עַלאֱֿלִישָׁע2Kings 2:15, compare 2 Kings 2:9; רוּחַ תַּרְדֵמָה spirit of deep sleep (ecstatic, compare Genesis 2:21; Genesis 15:12, but Di and others

g, as Isaiah 19:14) Isaiah 29:10; Micah 2:11; רוּחַ הַטֻמְאָה Zechariah 13:2 (of lying prophets), compare Ezekiel 13:3.

4 spirit of the living, breathing being, dwelling in the בָּשָׂר of men and animals, "" נֶפֶשׁ (25 t.):

a. gift and creation of God: יֹצֵר רוּחַ אָדָם בְּקִרְבּוֺ Zechariah 12:1; רוּחַ אֱלוֺהַּ בְּאַמִּי Job 27:3, compare Isaiah 42:5.

b. God preserves it: מְּקֻדָּֽתְךָ שָֽׁמְרָה רוּחִי Job 10:12, compare Job 12:10; אֱלֹהֵי הָרוּחֹת לְכָל בָּשָׂ֑ר Numbers 16:22; Numbers 27:16 (P); תֹּכֵן רוּחוֺת Proverbs 16:2.

c. it is therefore God's spirit: Genesis 6:3 (J; see דִּין near the end).

d. it departs at death: Psalm 78:39 (Dr a wind that passeth away 2e); חַיֵּי רוּחִי Isaiah 38:16 (Di principle of life), Psalm 146:4; especially Psalm 104:29; Psalm 104:30; Job 17:1; Job 34:14 (compare Job 34:15), Isaiah 57:16; Ecclesiastes 8:8 (twice in verse) (wind Wild); אֵינְךָ יוֺדֵעַ מַהדֶּֿרֶךְ הָרוּחַ Ecclesiastes 11:5, compare Ecclesiastes 3:21; over ag. הָרוּחַ תָּשׁוּב אֶלהָֿאֱלֹהִים אֲשֶׁר נְתָנָהּ Ecclesiastes 12:7; בְּיָָֽדְךָ אַפְקִיד רוּחִי Psalm 31:6.
 
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e. disembodied being (dubious, Di Du breath of wind): וְרוּחַ עַלמָּֿנַי יַחֲלֹף Job 4:15.

5 spirit as seat of emotion = נֶפֶשׁ:

a. desire (possibly 3g), Isaiah 26:9 ("" נֶפֶשׁ).

b. sorrow, trouble (probably 3e), Job 7:11 ("" נֶפֶשׁ). — 1 Samuel 1:15 see קָשֶׁה.

6 occasionally, (and late) = seat or organ of mental acts, "" לֵב, or synonym with it: רוּחַ חָכְמָה Exodus 28:3; Deuteronomy 34:9 (both P; probably 3g); תּעֵי רוּחַ Isaiah 29:24, compare Job 20:3 (Hi Bu Du wind of Job's words), Psalm 77:7 (ᵐ5 Symm ᵑ6 Jerome troubled disposition); רוּחַ יהוה Isaiah 40:13; come into mind Ezekiel 11:5, 20:32 (compare לֵב Isaiah 65:17; Jeremiah 3:16 +); 1 Chronicles 28:12.

7 rarely of the will; also = רוּחַ נָכוֺן לֵב Psalm 51:12 (= לֵב נָכוֺן Psalm 57:8 (twice in verse) +); רוּחַ נְדִיבָה Psalm 51:14; נָָֽדְבָה רוּחוֺ Exodus 35:21 (P; compare נְדִיב לֵב Exodus 35:5,22 (P) 2 Chronicles 29:31).

8 רוּחַ especially of moral character; also = ׃לֵב רוּחַ חֲדָשָׁהEzekiel 11:19; 18:31; 36:26; רוּחִי Ezekiel 36:27; Isaiah 59:21 (רוּחִי, "" דְּבָרַי; but probably prophetic spirit

9b); לֵב חָדָשׁ Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26; נְכֵה רוּחַ Isaiah 66:2; דַּכְּאֵי רוּחַ Psalm 34:19 (compare לֵב נִדְכָּאִים Isaiah 57:15); מִשֵּׁבֶר רוּחַ Isaiah 65:14 (compare 3f); רוּחַ נִשְׁבָּרֶה Psalm 51:19 ("" לֵב נִשְׁבָּר, compare נִשְׁבְּרֵי לֵב Psalm 34:19; Isaiah 61:1); Psalm 32:2; Proverbs 11:13; Proverbs 16:18; Psalm 78:8; Ecclesiastes 7:8 (compare גְּבַהּלֵב Proverbs 16:5); שְׁפַל רוּחַ Proverbs 16:19; Proverbs 29:23; Isaiah 57:15; רוּחַ שְׁפָלִים Isaiah 57:15 (compare 3f).

9 spirit of God (94 t.; not D or Jeremiah or any Deuteronomic writer; conception of its activity in inspiring prophecy probably discredited from abuse by false prophets, see נביא, נבא):

a. as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy, Numbers 11:17,25 (twice in verse); Numbers 11:26,29 (J), 1 Samuel 10:6,10 (compare 1 Samuel 10:5), 1 Samuel 19:20,23; as inciting to deeds of frenzy, in the ecstatic state; hence conceived as אֱלֹהִים רָעָה ׳ר 1 Samuel 16:15 (twice in verse); 1 Samuel 16:16, = ׳רָעָה מֵאֵת י ׳ר 1 Samuel 16:14 = רָעָה ׳א ׳צלח ר 1 Samuel 18:10 (other narrative) = רָעָה ׳י ׳ר 1 Samuel 19:9; ׳א ׳ר 1 Samuel 16:23 = רוּחַ הָרָעָה 1 Samuel 16:23, compare הָרוּחַ 1 Kings 22:21 = שֶׁקֶר ׳ר 1 Kings 22:22; 1 Kings 22:23 2Chronicles 18:20,21,22 = ׳רוּחַ י 1 Kings 22:24 2Chronicles 18:23; compare also (in earlier prophets) אִישׁ הָרוּחַ, i.e. one possessed by the spirit in the ecstatic state, "" הַנָּבִּיא Hosea 9:7; ׳רוּחַ י Micah 3:8 ("" בֹּחַ) is probably gloss (We Now); וְלֹא רוּחִי Isaiah 30:1; רוּחַ dealing with Ezek.: Ezekiel 2:2; Ezekiel 3:12,14,24; Ezekiel 8:3; Ezekiel 11:1,5,24 (Co gloss), Ezekiel 37:1; Ezekiel 43:5 (all implying ecstatic state of vision), compare Elijah 1 Kings 18:12; 2 Kings 2:16.

b. spirit as impelling prophets to utter instruction or warning (higher and later conception): transition probably Numbers 24:2; 2 Samuel 23:2; 1 Chronicles 12:18; elsewhere in Chronicles: 2Chronicles 15:1; 20:14; 24:20; distinctly in Isa2, Isaiah 48:16, compare Isaiah 61:1; so of ancient prophets, Zechariah 7:12; Nehemiah 9:30; compare, of future prophetic gift, Joel 3:1; Joel 3:2.

c. imparting warlike energy, and executive and administrative power: (1) to שֹׁפְטִים, מוֺשִׁיעִים, מְלָכִים, of ancient Israel: וַתְּהִי רוּחַ על ׳י Judges 3:10; Judges 11:29, compare Judges 6:34; Judges 13:25; Judges 14:6,19; Judges 15:14; 1 Samuel 11:6; 1 Samuel 16:13,14; so also עַד יֵעָרֶה עָלֵינוּ רוּחַ מִמָּרוֺם Isaiah 32:15; (2) resting upon Messianic king: Isaiah 11:2 (3 t. in verse); upon servant of ׳י, Isaiah 42:1.

d. late, as endowing men with various gifts: technical skill Exodus 31:3; Exodus 35:31 (P); understanding Job 32:8 ("" נִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי); poured out by divine wisdom Proverbs 1:23.

e. as energy of life: רוּחַ אֱלֹהִים מְרַחֶפֶת עַלמְּֿנֵי הַמָּ֑יִם Genesis 1:2 (P); רוּחַ אֵל עָשָׂ֑תְנִי Job 33:4 ("" נִשְׁמַת שַׁדַּי); as vital power, opposed to בָשָׂר: Isaiah 31:3; in cherubic chariot: Ezekiel 1:12, compare Ezekiel 1:20; Ezekiel 1:21; Ezekiel 10:17; reviving Israel Ezekiel 39:29; Zechariah 12:10; Isaiah 44:3.

f. = ancient angel of the presence and later Shekina: קָדְשׁוֺ ׳ר Isaiah 63:10,11 = ׳י ׳ר Isaiah 63:14 (= מַלְאַךְ מָּנָיו Isaiah 63:9), compare Psalm 106:33; so also קָדְשְׁךָ ׳ר Psalm 51:13 (in national prayer), compare Nehemiah 9:20; Psalm 143:10; prophets of restoration conceive of the divine spirit as standing in their midst and about to fulfil all divine promises: רוּחִי עֹמֶדֶת בְּתוֺכֲכֶם Haggai 2:5; Zechariah 4:6; this conception culminates in רוּחַ = divine Presence, and as such omnipresent, Psalm 139:7 ("" מָּנֶיךָ; compare Psalm 139:8).

רוח (√ of following; see Biblical Hebrew id., רוּח, רֵיחַ).
Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ר֫וּחַ (ruach) -- breath, wind, spirit
 
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JAL

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And now you are committing the word study fallacy I pointed out.

The One Meaning Fallacy:

This fallacy occurs when one concludes that a word means only one thing everywhere and anywhere. Often, it is argued that one specific Greek or Hebrew word should always be translated by the same English word."
Word-Study Fallacies
No fallacy at all. When you have 100 clear instances of wind/breath, the burden of proof falls on those who suddenly postulate fairytales about magical immaterial substance. Instead of meeting that burden of proof, we instead find this:

"Jesus breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy [Breath]" (Jn 20:22).

As Mr. Oden confirmed:

"Jesus himself chose the expression 'Holy Breath’ to designate the Comforter to follow Him (John 20:22)'" ( Thomas C. Oden, Life in the Spirit: Systematic Theology Volume Three (Peabody: Prince Press, 2001, reprint), p. 16).


I'm sorry you don't like the facts.
 
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7307. ר֫וּחַ (ruach)
Englishman's Concordance
Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ר֫וּחַ (ruach) — 377 Occurrences
Genesis 1:2

HEB: פְּנֵ֣י תְה֑וֹם וְר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים מְרַחֶ֖פֶת
NAS: of the deep, and the Spirit of God
KJV: of the deep. And the Spirit of God
INT: the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was moving

Genesis 3:8
HEB: מִתְהַלֵּ֥ךְ בַּגָּ֖ן לְר֣וּחַ הַיּ֑וֹם וַיִּתְחַבֵּ֨א
NAS: in the garden in the cool of the day,
KJV: in the garden in the cool of the day:
INT: walking the garden the cool of the day hid

Genesis 6:3
HEB: לֹֽא־ יָד֨וֹן רוּחִ֤י בָֽאָדָם֙ לְעֹלָ֔ם
NAS: said, My Spirit shall not strive
KJV: said, My spirit shall not always
INT: shall not strive my Spirit man forever

Genesis 6:17
HEB: אֲשֶׁר־ בּוֹ֙ ר֣וּחַ חַיִּ֔ים מִתַּ֖חַת
NAS: in which is the breath of life,
KJV: all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life,
INT: flesh which is the breath of life under

Genesis 7:15
HEB: אֲשֶׁר־ בּ֖וֹ ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים׃
NAS: flesh in which was the breath of life.
KJV: wherein [is] the breath of life.
INT: flesh which was the breath of life

Genesis 7:22
HEB: אֲשֶׁר֩ נִשְׁמַת־ ר֨וּחַ חַיִּ֜ים בְּאַפָּ֗יו
NAS: was the breath of the spirit of life,
INT: whose was the breath of the spirit of life nostrils

Genesis 8:1
HEB: וַיַּעֲבֵ֨ר אֱלֹהִ֥ים ר֙וּחַ֙ עַל־ הָאָ֔רֶץ
NAS: and God caused a wind to pass
KJV: and God made a wind to pass over
INT: to pass and God A wind over the earth

Genesis 26:35
HEB: וַתִּהְיֶ֖יןָ מֹ֣רַת ר֑וּחַ לְיִצְחָ֖ק וּלְרִבְקָֽה׃
KJV: Which were a grief of mind unto Isaac
INT: brought grief of mind to Isaac and Rebekah

Genesis 41:8
HEB: בַבֹּ֙קֶר֙ וַתִּפָּ֣עֶם רוּח֔וֹ וַיִּשְׁלַ֗ח וַיִּקְרָ֛א
NAS: Now in the morning his spirit was troubled,
KJV: And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled;
INT: the morning was troubled his spirit sent and called

Genesis 41:38
HEB: אִ֕ישׁ אֲשֶׁ֛ר ר֥וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֖ים בּֽוֹ׃
NAS: in whom is a divine spirit?
KJV: in whom the Spirit of God
INT: A man whom the Spirit divine

Genesis 45:27
HEB: אֹת֑וֹ וַתְּחִ֕י ר֖וּחַ יַעֲקֹ֥ב אֲבִיהֶֽם׃
NAS: to carry him, the spirit of their father
KJV: to carry him, the spirit of Jacob
INT: to carry revived the spirit Jacob of their father

Exodus 6:9
HEB: מֹשֶׁ֔ה מִקֹּ֣צֶר ר֔וּחַ וּמֵעֲבֹדָ֖ה קָשָֽׁה׃
KJV: for anguish of spirit, and for cruel
INT: Moses anguish of spirit bondage and cruel

Exodus 10:13
HEB: וַֽיהוָ֗ה נִהַ֤ג ר֥וּחַ קָדִים֙ בָּאָ֔רֶץ
NAS: directed an east wind on the land all
KJV: an east wind upon the land
INT: and the LORD directed wind an east the land

Exodus 10:13
HEB: הַבֹּ֣קֶר הָיָ֔ה וְר֙וּחַ֙ הַקָּדִ֔ים נָשָׂ֖א
NAS: the east wind brought
KJV: the east wind brought
INT: morning become wind the east brought

Exodus 10:19
HEB: וַיַּהֲפֹ֨ךְ יְהוָ֤ה רֽוּחַ־ יָם֙ חָזָ֣ק
NAS: west wind which took
KJV: west wind, which took away
INT: shifted the LORD wind west strong

Exodus 14:21
HEB: אֶת־ הַ֠יָּם בְּר֨וּחַ קָדִ֤ים עַזָּה֙
NAS: [back] by a strong east wind all night
KJV: east wind all that night,
INT: and the LORD the sea wind east A strong

Exodus 15:8
HEB: וּבְר֤וּחַ אַפֶּ֙יךָ֙ נֶ֣עֶרְמוּ
NAS: At the blast of Your nostrils
KJV: And with the blast of thy nostrils
INT: the blast of your nostrils were piled

Exodus 15:10
HEB: נָשַׁ֥פְתָּ בְרוּחֲךָ֖ כִּסָּ֣מוֹ יָ֑ם
NAS: You blew with Your wind, the sea
KJV: Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea
INT: blew your wind covered the sea

Exodus 28:3
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר מִלֵּאתִ֖יו ר֣וּחַ חָכְמָ֑ה וְעָשׂ֞וּ
NAS: I have endowed with the spirit of wisdom,
KJV: whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom,
INT: whom have endowed the spirit of wisdom make

Exodus 31:3
HEB: וָאֲמַלֵּ֥א אֹת֖וֹ ר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֑ים בְּחָכְמָ֛ה
NAS: I have filled him with the Spirit of God
KJV: And I have filled him with the spirit of God,
INT: have filled the Spirit of God wisdom

Exodus 35:21
HEB: אֲשֶׁר֩ נָדְבָ֨ה רוּח֜וֹ אֹת֗וֹ הֵ֠בִיאוּ
NAS: whose spirit moved
KJV: stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing,
INT: whose moved spirit brought contribution

Exodus 35:31
HEB: וַיְמַלֵּ֥א אֹת֖וֹ ר֣וּחַ אֱלֹהִ֑ים בְּחָכְמָ֛ה
NAS: And He has filled him with the Spirit of God,
KJV: And he hath filled him with the spirit of God,
INT: has filled the Spirit of God wisdom

Numbers 5:14
HEB: וְעָבַ֨ר עָלָ֧יו רֽוּחַ־ קִנְאָ֛ה וְקִנֵּ֥א
NAS: if a spirit of jealousy comes
KJV: And the spirit of jealousy come
INT: comes over A spirit of jealousy is jealous

Numbers 5:14
HEB: עָבַ֨ר עָלָ֤יו רֽוּחַ־ קִנְאָה֙ וְקִנֵּ֣א
NAS: herself, or if a spirit of jealousy
KJV: and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy
INT: comes over A spirit of jealousy is jealous

Numbers 5:30
HEB: תַּעֲבֹ֥ר עָלָ֛יו ר֥וּחַ קִנְאָ֖ה וְקִנֵּ֣א
NAS: or when a spirit of jealousy comes
KJV: Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh
INT: comes over A spirit of jealousy is jealous

Numbers 11:17
HEB: וְאָצַלְתִּ֗י מִן־ הָר֛וּחַ אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָלֶ֖יךָ
NAS: and I will take of the Spirit who
KJV: with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which [is] upon thee, and will put
INT: will take at of the Spirit who and
Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ר֫וּחַ (ruach) -- 377 Occurrences
 
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topher694

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  • Excellent so far. Yes, if God is incomprehensible to human understanding:
(1) Theology is pointless. No one should preach anything if we can't comprehend God.
(2) We have no hope because we have no sure understanding of religion.

Metaphysically? Or in terms of virtue? I've got news for you. God is not a snob. He wouldn't consider Himself better than you - more worthy of praise - on account of any metaphysical differences (and there aren't any). If you want to understand why God merits praise, take a look at post 437. In a nutshell, God expects praise only on account of His virtue. I'm sorry that your values are so skewed and confused as to imagine otherwise.
Well if that doesn't just perfectly demonstrate what I wrote...

Now, please, go on and tell me more about MY values...
 
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You guys keep repeating the same strawman arguments because you're frustrated that you can't find any clear biblical evidence for "magical immaterial spirit". As the OP already warned you, the term "spirit" originated in a homosexual pagan philosopher named Plato. He wasn't even a Christian!
 
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