Reports of Sexual Immorality

GDL · Apr 26, 2021

NKJ 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

- Seems Paul wanted congregations kept pure and not tolerant of sin its congregants noticed. Hebrews 10 commands to pay close attention to each other. Obviously this can be abused (busybodies and meddlers, which is also commanded against).

NKJ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

- When a Christian becomes aware of another's sin, is it love to let them think they will inherit the Kingdom? How about leaders and congregants that simply allow, back-up and/or ignore sin - are they in fact loving - are some even Christian?

This is not the only coverage of this topic.

I have been involved dealing in some actual cases of these types of things. One was horrendous with a pastor allegedly backing the sin. Another, a tough one in another respect, involving a parent and adult offspring, with the offspring living in open sin and professing faith. Does this person fit the description in 5:11 if the charge is true? Does the believing parent have a choice to make pursuant to 5:11? Does anyone think this stuff is easy to deal with? How important is it to tell such people the truth and do what God commands of us? Does 6:9 mean anything, or do we not judge, and thereby not love Biblically by not confronting the sin in one another?

GDL · Apr 26, 2021

Christsfreeservant said:
I am surprised that you have not heard this. Maybe I do more since I teach daily on submission, repentance and obedience to Christ.

#40 is all yours, Sue. It was an underlying issue from the beginning of A-Thinker's arguments, that surfaced fairly quickly. Open a discussion about sin in the churches, mention the gospel & allegations of works salvation, and get ready to debate this "works salvation," the meaning of Faith, the full concept of grace, the full scope of Biblical Salvation, etc...

Tragic.

Christsfreeservant · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
NKJ 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner-- not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

- Seems Paul wanted congregations kept pure and not tolerant of sin its congregants noticed. Hebrews 10 commands to pay close attention to each other. Obviously this can be abused (busybodies and meddlers, which is also commanded against).

NKJ 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

- When a Christian becomes aware of another's sin, is it love to let them think they will inherit the Kingdom? How about leaders and congregants that simply allow, back-up and/or ignore sin - are they in fact loving - are some even Christian?

This is not the only coverage of this topic.

I have been involved dealing in some actual cases of these types of things. One was horrendous with a pastor allegedly backing the sin. Another, a tough one in another respect, involving a parent and adult offspring, with the offspring living in open sin and professing faith. Does this person fit the description in 5:11 if the charge is true? Does the believing parent have a choice to make pursuant to 5:11? Does anyone think this stuff is easy to deal with? How important is it to tell such people the truth and do what God commands of us? Does 6:9 mean anything, or do we not judge, and thereby not love Biblically by not confronting the sin in one another?

I concur. I have dealt with much of this, as well, beginning as a child who was subject to my father's abuses and to the fact that nothing was done about that, way back then, and all that took place was that my dad put himself willingly in a mental hospital and then he was released after a year and a half and he went back mostly to living how he lived before, with the church doing nothing to rescue the children. No one, not one person, talked with us about what happened or counseled us or asked us if we were okay with him coming back home. And we kept going to church services as a family while the church just looked the other way. He was abusing my mom up until the day she died and no one would lift a finger to try to help, not even the hospital staff.

And then I married a sex addict unknowingly (this is public information for we have both shared our testimonies publicly) and when I tried to get help from pastors or elders they would do nothing. In my trying to get help, I mostly got shot down and attacked verbally for trying to get help. And many years later we watched some videos where couples in our situation were sharing their testimonies and that was so validating for me, though sad for those people, to know that I was not alone in this. And many of these people sharing their testimonies were missionaries or pastors or youth pastors, etc., and it wasn't just inappropriate content they were involved in, but it was prostitution and all sorts of sexual perversions, and then they just put them in support groups which mostly do nothing to help them to true freedom. So I know what I am talking about here.

This is serious business, it is widespread, and many families, church families, and marriages are being torn apart by this while the church sits back and mostly does nothing but teach that we can be saved and bound for heaven and still continue living in deliberate habitual sin against God and against spouse and children and others.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Funny, but, from what I've read, I have my doubt you could correctly interpret much of anything you post a reference to.

By "correct " you mean as defined by you.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Funny, but, from what I've read, I have my doubt you could correctly interpret much of anything you post a reference to.

I am pleased to counter all your objections with scriptural sources.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
You should learn to think on more than one level and deal with the tensions presented in the Text. The same "Peter" said this:

NKJ Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: "We ought to obey God rather than men. "Ought to" more precisely means, "it is necessary."

Paul also writes about obeying men in Romans 13, which is another battleground for those who assert blind obedience to men.

Not blind obedience. God requires that all local laws be followed as God has set up every government. And we can reference the golden rule - I wish all other to follow ALL local laws just as I wish to do.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Makes no sense when you think you agree, but disagree.

Quite a liberal point of view adhering to the traditions and commandments of men. Very non-Christian, actually. No wonder this article caught your eye.

Scripture and adhering to Paul commanding to follow traditions he taught is Scriptural.

I'm not sure what you mean by non-Christian since the reason only reason we have been saved is because Jesus followed local government and was crucified.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Actually, they were not "church leaders" and they were not giving "advice." Your errors are pretty much non-stop.

Let's be clear and to the point:

Is secular law above God's Law?

Are God's people to adhere to secular law, no matter what?

People are to adhere to secular law as God commands.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
It's not fun to have to point out so much error in such a few statements:

1. Paul was writing to local congregations. What you mean by "formal churches," who knows. But a local congregation in some locale could most certainly be considered a formal church, with leadership, Apostolic traditions, Christ as its Head, etc.

2. Please show one statement from Paul that shows his intent was to write to those not born yet and not to existing congregations or believers.

3. You completely misrepresent what Paul or any writer of Scripture, let alone God, instructs and commands re: following local laws. We are in fact instructed to stand against law that conflicts with God's Law.

4. Discrimination is a word that ultimately has to do with judging (discerning, differentiating, distinguishing). We all discriminate, because we all constantly differentiate. Proper discrimination honors God. Ungodly discrimination dishonors God.

5. Only as long as you treat others according to Scripture (the Law and the Prophets) and would have them treat you according to the same Scripture, is this saying applicable. This is not even rule #1 or #2, which would be to love God and neighbor. It's essentially #2, which if not according to #1 is not a true #2.

So I've covered all 5 points with no counter from scripture.GDL said: ↑
The only counter was Paul saying "we don't follow men" but he is referring to the church leaders.....which you have offered no corrections for me.

I am happy to expand on each scripture and message from God if you wish.
But the context is supportive as well.
1 Peter 2:13-17
2 Peter 2:10
Titus 3
1 Timothy 2
Psalms 22:28
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1
Romans 13
Proverbs 21
John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 29
Proverbs 8:15
Psalms 94:20
Deuteronomy 28
Daniel 2:21
John 19:10-11
Jude 1:8
Colossians 1:15-17
Ecclesiastes 10:20
Acts 8:32
Acts 23:5
Matthew 10:38

GDL · Apr 26, 2021

Christsfreeservant said:
This is serious business, it is widespread, and many families, church families, and marriages are being torn apart by this while the church sits back and mostly does nothing but teach that we can be saved and bound for heaven and still continue living in deliberate habitual sin against God and against spouse and children and others.

Thanks again, Sue. I knew of some of your background from reading quite a bit of what you've openly posted.

I agree that it is "serious business." One of the situations I became just somewhat involved with is in the arena of which you speak. It was very dark and apparently supported by many "christians" and a "pastor" (I'm not capitalizing for reason).

We both know the "church" is a mess. I think part of the difficulty I've experienced is that many who teach the "gospel" we're discussing seem to have turned out to be very solid Christians who would not support anything remotely near the sin we're discussing. But, through much study and being close enough to a church split over, among other things, the gospel, I came to a lengthily determined conclusion that they do not understand Salvation, or Faith. Nor would they agree that that gospel leaves too big an opening for thinking sin is not the issue it is. They too will quickly run to works salvation allegations.

None of this is simple one size fits all. There are nuances to dealing with it. I am nevertheless in agreement with most of what you write. It's interesting how quickly the works stuff came out today.

Christsfreeservant · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Thanks again, Sue. I knew of some of your background from reading quite a bit of what you've openly posted.

I agree that it is "serious business." One of the situations I became just somewhat involved with is in the arena of which you speak. It was very dark and apparently supported by many "christians" and a "pastor" (I'm not capitalizing for reason).

We both know the "church" is a mess. I think part of the difficulty I've experienced is that many who teach the "gospel" we're discussing seem to have turned out to be very solid Christians who would not support anything remotely near the sin we're discussing. But, through much study and being close enough to a church split over, among other things, the gospel, I came to a lengthily determined conclusion that they do not understand Salvation, or Faith. Nor would they agree that that gospel leaves too big an opening for thinking sin is not the issue it is. They too will quickly run to works salvation allegations.

None of this is simple one size fits all. There are nuances to dealing with it. I am nevertheless in agreement with most of what you write. It's interesting how quickly the works stuff came out today.

Thank you.

GDL · Apr 26, 2021

SkyWriting said:
By "correct " you mean as defined by you.

Incorrect.

SkyWriting said:
I am pleased to counter all your objections with scriptural sources.

I'm sure you're pleased to try, but I've already expressed clearly my doubts about your abilities.

SkyWriting said:
Not blind obedience. God requires that all local laws be followed as God has set up every government. And we can reference the golden rule - I wish all other to follow ALL local laws just as I wish to do.

Incorrect again, but a common error.

SkyWriting said:
I'm not sure what you mean by non-Christian since the reason only reason we have been saved is because Jesus followed local government and was crucified.

What can one say...

SkyWriting said:
People are to adhere to secular law as God commands.

Ambiguous, but based upon previous statements, incorrect.

SkyWriting said:
So I've covered all 5 points with no counter from scripture.GDL said: ↑
The only counter was Paul saying "we don't follow men" but he is referring to the church leaders.....which you have offered no corrections for me.

Incorrect again. So not to have to repeat myself:

GDL said:
Actually, they were not "church leaders" and they were not giving "advice." Your errors are pretty much non-stop.

SkyWriting said:
I am happy to expand on each scripture and message from God if you wish.

Thank you, but, based upon what I've seen so far, I'll pass. It just seems an exercise in futility.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
I'm sure you're pleased to try, but I've already expressed clearly my doubts about your abilities.

That the lamest counter I've received yet in years! No scripture at all to support your sermons?

I'll help you out. David and the lions and
Daniel 3:16-28 KJV - Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego

There are the two times that I would "disobey God" based on the two most heinous outcomes that God has documented. Because in these two cases men-of-God stood against local government, innocent women and children were
1. fed to lions
2. cut up into cubes of meat.

So, as Christian reading this result, I would "make the mistake" of obeying local laws, becasue, I would rather risk going to Hell than have innocent people, my neighbors, be fed to lions or be cubed up into chunks by machetes'.

Hopefully God would forgive my choice to save the lives of infidel babies.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Thank you, but, based upon what I've seen so far, I'll pass. It just seems an exercise in futility.

Indeed it is. I've held my position for years with no scriptural opposition.
Lots of name calling and ad hominem attacks, which I love to see as people panic.

GDL · Apr 26, 2021

SkyWriting said:
That the lamest counter I've received yet in years! No scripture at all?

"lamest" will do, but it doesn't cure your multiple errors, nor does it assist you to realize when you've been accurately corrected. All done now. Post to your heart's content. When you post Scripture with erroneous interpretations, I may offer corrections again, but otherwise likely not (Proverbs 26:4-5).

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
"lamest" will do, but it doesn't cure your multiple errors, nor does it assist you to realize when you've been accurately corrected. All done now. Post to your heart's content. When you post Scripture with erroneous interpretations, I may offer corrections again, but otherwise likely not (Proverbs 26:4-5).

I try to avoid any interpretations at all. Thanks for requesting that I demonstrate!

1 Peter 2:13-17 - Be subject to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake
Titus 3 - Put them in mind to be in subjection to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient,
1 Timothy 2 - I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; 2 for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity.
Psalms 22:28 - For the kingdom is Jehovah's; And he is the ruler over the nations.
Daniel 2:20-21
Romans 13
Deuteronomy 16:18-20
Revelation 1
Romans 13
Proverbs 21
John 19:11
Mark 3:24
Proverbs 29
Proverbs 8:15
Psalms 94:20
Deuteronomy 28
Daniel 2:21
John 19:10-11
Jude 1:8
Colossians 1:15-17
Ecclesiastes 10:20
Acts 8:32
Acts 23:5
Matthew 10:38

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
"lamest" will do, but it doesn't cure your multiple errors,

You've not identified any specifically. Just personal attacks, sadly.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
"lamest" will do, but it doesn't cure your multiple errors, nor does it assist you to realize when you've been accurately corrected. All done now. Post to your heart's content. When you post Scripture with erroneous interpretations, I may offer corrections again, but otherwise likely not (Proverbs 26:4-5).

Due to lack of scripture supporting your position, you will stop conversing.
I addressed your five points with no scriptural rebuttal and
I provided about 20 relevant passages. Today at 5:38 PM#56
You responded with personal attacks and that is the normal response.

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
"lamest" will do, but it doesn't cure your multiple errors, nor does it assist you to realize when you've been accurately corrected. All done now. Post to your heart's content. When you post Scripture with erroneous interpretations, I may offer corrections again, but otherwise likely not (Proverbs 26:4-5).

Run away! Run Away! People don't agree with me!

SkyWriting · Apr 26, 2021

GDL said:
Actually, all you've defended is misinterpretation and a liberal rejection of Scripture. I can see why this would be cathartic for some.

With that said, I can also see that this just keeps getting worse. Specific single scripture only from here on. Post your lists only for your cathartic pleasure.

Your rules then.
Obey local law over Laws in scripture as scripture commands.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

This is not legal. Dump it.

1 Timothy 2:2
For kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

Reports of Sexual Immorality

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

The Librarian

Well-Known Member

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

Similar threads