Church elders under fire for threatening to expel mom who left husband, started dating woman

RDKirk · Apr 23, 2021

CatsRule2020 said:
What is embarrassing is that church still doesn't know the Old/New Testament meaning of 'fornication. The very word that seems to dominate so much of their discussions. It's meaning in the 1st century......stayed in the 1st century. The reason being that it dealt with pagan temple sex worship with their priests/preistessess.

The so many churches of today use study aids that are absolutely biased with this word and it leads church leaders to be forced to teach that kissing of an unmarried couple, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Ed., R-rated movies, etc., etc., is fornication.

There is something the bible is not: The bible is not a rule book. It's not a reference manual. When I was in the military, we had regulations where if someone wanted to know exactly how long he could wear his hair, he could flip right to the page and paragraph where the exact length was specified. That is not the bible. The bible is the guide to righteousness, not just does and don'ts and specifications.

The precise definition of "fornication" is not necessary. Rather, we have to look at what acts lead to sexual unrighteousness--either in deed or in thought--and avoid those acts. That might very well be kissing for an unmarried couple. that may very well be R-rated movies. Arguing over whether it is, specially, fornication exactly as the ancient Greeks understood it is the debating over words that Paul warned us to avoid (2 Timothy 2).

CatsRule2020 · Apr 23, 2021

RDKirk said:
There is something the bible is not: The bible is not a rule book. It's not a reference manual. When I was in the military, we had regulations where if someone wanted to know exactly how long he could wear his hair, he could flip right to the page and paragraph where the exact length was specified. That is not the bible. The bible is the guide to righteousness, not just does and don'ts and specifications.

The precise definition of "fornication" is not necessary. Rather, we have to look at what acts lead to sexual unrighteousness--either in deed or in thought--and avoid those acts. That might very well be kissing for an unmarried couple. that may very well be R-rated movies. Arguing over whether it is, specially, fornication exactly as the ancient Greeks understood it is the debating over words that Paul warned us to avoid (2 Timothy 2).

Well then, if debating over Koine Greek words is to be avoided, it just will not be significant to know New Testament meanings such as baptizo, fornication, tongues, etc.

rom8:38 · Apr 23, 2021

2BeholdHisGlory said:
To what are you referring to when talking about a church denying someone the light of the gospel?

Not allowing one who has fallen the ability to enter in and hear potential salvation.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 23, 2021

rom8:38 said:
Not allowing one who has fallen the ability to enter in and hear potential salvation.

If the doctrine the fallen (as you put it) has already heard (one who is called a brother). Then the doctrine includes in it what to do in the given situation he finds himself in. Which in this case calls the many to act as one (in obedience to Paul's instruction) and put them away from the group. In this situation wouldnt it be that person who has refused to hear the sound doctrine already?

Shunning is part of the doctrine, his sorrowful response to that action (inflicted by the many) is an important part of assisting the godly sorrow which worketh repentance unto salvation which would be the goal (2Cr 7:4)

RDKirk · Apr 23, 2021

CatsRule2020 said:
Well then, if debating over Koine Greek words is to be avoided, it just will not be significant to know New Testament meanings such as baptizo, fornication, tongues, etc.

Those may not be as significant to "nail down" to specifics as the people arguing over them think they are.

Macchiato · Apr 24, 2021

Eftsoon said:
Okay... should churches be excommunicating people because of their sexuality? If she were in a leadership position, I can totally understand, but she was just a layperson.
I think the church was wrong to do this. The church needs to make it clear that all are welcome. That doesn't mean that the church has to condone or enable sin. It means that the gospel needs to be made available to all.
Who did Christ spend much of his ministry preaching to?

I agree sith this. Also why just that sin? If they excommunicate her they should do the same for liars, theives, gossipers, those who've had abortions, those who've had sex out of wedlock, who make idols of anything other than Christ.. The list goes and that would leave an empty church.

Macchiato · Apr 24, 2021

CatsRule2020 said:
So, I understand that the church sees her sin as her present relationship, not her 'unscriptural' divorce from her former husband.

Right. Some like to focus on one major sin. Im also sure she's not the only one struggline with habitual sin. What about the inappropriate content addicted?

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 24, 2021

Macchiato said:
I agree sith this. Also why just that sin? If they excommunicate her they should do the same for liars, theives, gossipers, those who've had abortions, those who've had sex out of wedlock, who make idols of anything other than Christ.. The list goes and that would leave an empty church.

Not if they repent, how would a church be empty with repentant sinners in it? They were all those things but were washed and not to walk in continuance in those things.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 24, 2021

Macchiato said:
Right. Some like to focus on one major sin. Im also sure she's not the only one struggline with habitual sin. What about the inappropriate content addicted?

inappropriate content is looking upon others (sexually performing for you) with lust and feeding those evil desires. We are to put that to death through the Spirit or we can continue to feed that lust letting it grow stronger and become abominable perverts

Gregorikos · Apr 24, 2021

Eftsoon said:
Okay... should churches be excommunicating people because of their sexuality? If she were in a leadership position, I can totally understand, but she was just a layperson.
I think the church was wrong to do this. The church needs to make it clear that all are welcome. That doesn't mean that the church has to condone or enable sin. It means that the gospel needs to be made available to all.
Who did Christ spend much of his ministry preaching to?

According to the Bible, yes. See 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.

Gregorikos · Apr 24, 2021

Eftsoon said:
I have seen no scriptural support for excommunication.

See 1 Corinthians 5:1-13

Jaxxi · Apr 24, 2021

Michie said:
A team of elders from the Woodstock Church of Christ in Georgia who threatened to expel one of their members after she divorced her husband and made her new lesbian relationship public are now coming under fire online for trying to live according to their religious beliefs.

On Sunday, the church member, Krystal Cox, published a letter on Instagram dated April 1. In the document, Woodstock Church of Christ Elders Rick Reynolds, Gary Kyle, Don Williams and Eric Dotson explain how they have tried to reason with her about going against the church’s teachings on sexuality since last December.

“As we have previously stated, we feel it is crucial to remind you that our Lord considered it vital that no one can be involved in homosexuality and be in a pleasing relationship with God," the letter stated.

“We sent you a letter in the second week of December 2020 that was confirmed by the USPS as delivered on December 10, 2020. A copy of that letter is enclosed. In that letter, the Eldership requested an opportunity to discuss with you this situation and the condition of your soul. We have not received a response to that letter."

Continued below.
Church under fire for threatening to expel lesbian mom - The Christian Post

They didn't write the Bible. They are just enforcing it. I do not see a problem with that. God does not change and He is not human. He expects us to live a certain way. God is not politically correct and He does not need us. If I were attracted to the same sex I would not act on it. It is not worth it. " God wants us to be happy" Where does it say that? Our fulfilling our lustful desires and calling it happiness is not part of the deal. I do not see a problem with what they are doing. It is Gods law and I applaud them for upholding it.

Jaxxi · Apr 24, 2021

Eftsoon said:
Where does it tell us to expel the fornicators out of the church?

Fornicators and Homosexuals are two different things. If she were to repent and declare a life of celibacy she should be allowed back. Like fornicators, she could repent and be forgiven.

Bruce Leiter · Apr 24, 2021

Michie said:
A team of elders from the Woodstock Church of Christ in Georgia who threatened to expel one of their members after she divorced her husband and made her new lesbian relationship public are now coming under fire online for trying to live according to their religious beliefs.

On Sunday, the church member, Krystal Cox, published a letter on Instagram dated April 1. In the document, Woodstock Church of Christ Elders Rick Reynolds, Gary Kyle, Don Williams and Eric Dotson explain how they have tried to reason with her about going against the church’s teachings on sexuality since last December.

“As we have previously stated, we feel it is crucial to remind you that our Lord considered it vital that no one can be involved in homosexuality and be in a pleasing relationship with God," the letter stated.

“We sent you a letter in the second week of December 2020 that was confirmed by the USPS as delivered on December 10, 2020. A copy of that letter is enclosed. In that letter, the Eldership requested an opportunity to discuss with you this situation and the condition of your soul. We have not received a response to that letter."

Continued below.
Church under fire for threatening to expel lesbian mom - The Christian Post

The church leadership is fully-biblical in their approach, since Jesus himself called them to discipline members who have strayed from clear biblical principles. Since the woman never responded and they can't communicate with her, she has, in effect, resigned from the church.

Macchiato · Apr 24, 2021

2BeholdHisGlory said:
Not if they repent, how would a church be empty with repentant sinners in it? They were all those things but were washed and not to walk in continuance in those things.

You dont kniw that. They could live like hell during the week and go to church on sundays out of habit. Its just that ladies' sin was more noticeable.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 24, 2021

Macchiato said:
You dont kniw that. They could live like hell during the week and go to church on sundays out of habit. Its just that ladies' sin was more noticeable.

I don't regard everyone who shows up at church as a brother, there are unlearned that come into the assembly a brother is more often than not someone you are far more familiar with.

Would you suggest to leave off of Paul's instruction?

CatsRule2020 · Apr 24, 2021

Gregorikos said:
According to the Bible, yes. See 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.

1 Corinthians 5
King James Version

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

This verse does not connect to the 20th or 21st century. It can only be confined to the 1st century.
The verse is not addressing a private sin, but a public sin. A public act. No doubt there were numerous instances in the non-Christian and non-Jewish community, of adult sons sleeping (having sex) with their mothers. This act would have been on the tame side in the pre Gospel time in the Gentile religious worship arena where inappropriate behavior with animals would have been the highlight.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 24, 2021

John the baptist rebuked Herod for having his brothers wife

Mark 6:18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.

So John is rebuking Herod for marrying his brothers wife

Gregorikos · Apr 24, 2021

CatsRule2020 said:
1 Corinthians 5
King James Version

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

This verse does not connect to the 20th or 21st century. It can only be confined to the 1st century.
The verse is not addressing a private sin, but a public sin. A public act. No doubt there were numerous instances in the non-Christian and non-Jewish community, of adult sons sleeping (having sex) with their mothers. This act would have been on the tame side in the pre Gospel time in the Gentile religious worship arena where inappropriate behavior with animals would have been the highlight.

It's no more public than gay marriage. And what does private or public have to do with it?

And on what basis would you say this chapter of God’s word isn't relevant for us today? None that I can see.

tryphena rose · Apr 24, 2021

CatsRule2020 said:
What is embarrassing is that church still doesn't know the Old/New Testament meaning of 'fornication. The very word that seems to dominate so much of their discussions. It's meaning in the 1st century......stayed in the 1st century. The reason being that it dealt with pagan temple sex worship with their priests/preistessess.

Where did you get this definition of the word "fornication"? I think, as 2beholdhisglory pointed out with the scriptures she provided, the context of the scriptures seems rather clear when using the word fornication. The definition you provided would throw many verses off in meaning.

Church elders under fire for threatening to expel mom who left husband, started dating woman

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