Is it Wrong to Call Calvinism Unjust?

FreeGrace2 said:

I really don't know what your problem is, but it was Cornelius' own staff who described him as just, as I have already shown.

And an angel OF GOD told Cornelius how he would be SAVED.

So you just keep being stubbornly WRONG. You make no sense.

1. This is what is meant by "reconciling" in 2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

This is what Jesus Christ did on the cross. He paid the full sin debt of all of mankind.


I've already tried to TEACH you that Rom 3:10-18 are quotes from 6 OT verses about the various ways man sins.

The word "fear" means respect. Cornelius did respect the Creator. And no one gets saved by respecting God.


Where do you see 'fear' in this verse?

Why do you keep quoting verses that DON'T say what you claim? Why should anyone believe what you claim when you don't have any evidence from Scripture.


Again, respect. And that saves no one.

Again, I will believe what God's own angel said to Cornelius than what Cornelius' own staff said about him.

Acts 11:14 - He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

Why is it so difficult to believe what God's own angel told Cornelius?

Click to expand...

You dont get it. Cornelius was a saved Justified, God fearing man !

Brightfame52 said:

You dont get it. Cornelius was a saved Justified, God fearing man !

Click to expand...

You really amaze me. God's own angel told Cornelius HOW he would be saved.

That proves that he wasn't saved when the angel appeared to him.

And yet, you'd rather believe Cornelius' staff rather than God's angel.

Well, good on you.

I know better and believe God's own angel. Who never lies. Unlike human beings.

FreeGrace2 said:

You really amaze me. God's own angel told Cornelius HOW he would be saved.

That proves that he wasn't saved when the angel appeared to him.

And yet, you'd rather believe Cornelius' staff rather than God's angel.

Well, good on you.

I know better and believe God's own angel. Who never lies. Unlike human beings.

Click to expand...

Sure he was saved, he was accepted of God Acts 10:35

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Brightfame52 said:

Sure he was saved, he was accepted of God Acts 10:35

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Click to expand...

I believe what God's own angel told Cornelius rather than the opinion of Cornelius' own staff.

But at least those who read this thread know where you stand and who you believe.

When you take a razor blade to Acts 11:14, be very careful.

FreeGrace2 said:

I believe what God's own angel told Cornelius rather than the opinion of Cornelius' own staff.

But at least those who read this thread know where you stand and who you believe.

When you take a razor blade to Acts 11:14, be very careful.

Click to expand...

You cant receive the Truth.

Brightfame52 said:

You cant receive the Truth.

Click to expand...

Since you don't know the truth, your comment is irrelevant.

What verse teaches that man is unable to believe before regeneration?

What verse says that Christ died ONLY for the elect?

What verse says that election is to salvation?

What you have is no truth. Only talking points.

FreeGrace2 said:

Since you don't know the truth, your comment is irrelevant.

What verse teaches that man is unable to believe before regeneration?

What verse says that Christ died ONLY for the elect?

What verse says that election is to salvation?

What you have is no truth. Only talking points.

Click to expand...

I know it and declare it to you, however you cant receive it, thats Gods business.

FreeGrace2 said:

Since you don't know the truth, your comment is irrelevant.

What verse teaches that man is unable to believe before regeneration?

What verse says that Christ died ONLY for the elect?

What verse says that election is to salvation?

What you have is no truth. Only talking points.

Click to expand...

What verse teaches that man is able to believe before regeneration ?

What verse says that Christ didnt die ONLY for the elect?

What verse says that election is not to salvation?

You all talk !

Brightfame52 said:

I know it and declare it to you, however you cant receive it, thats Gods business.

Click to expand...

If you realy 'know it", you WOULD HAVE declared it to me.

But you HAVEN'T declared or answered any of my questions to you.

This is what I asked you.

"Since you don't know the truth, your comment is irrelevant.

What verse teaches that man is unable to believe before regeneration?

What verse says that Christ died ONLY for the elect?

What verse says that election is to salvation?

What you have is no truth. Only talking points."

If you do have verses that answer my questions, why haven't you done it yet?

Brightfame52 said:

What verse teaches that man is able to believe before regeneration ?

Click to expand...

Glad you asked.

Eph 2:5 equates regeneration and salvation.

made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

v.8 places faith BEFORE salvation, and therefore, regeneration.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

btw, "though faith" means the faith must be present BEFORE salvation, and therefore, regeneration.

You're welcome.

What verse says that Christ didnt die ONLY for the elect?

Click to expand...

Glad you asked.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

2 Cor 5-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

{there is no context here for "all" to mean "only some", or "only the elect"}

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

{note that "especially" doesn't mean "only", as you may claim}

2 Tim 2-
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

{"all people" NEVER means "some people"}

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

{"everyone" doesn't mean "only some" or "only the elect"}

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

What verse says that election is not to salvation?

Click to expand...

Bogus question. Since election isn't to salvation, why demand the Bible say that?

However, I CAN show many verses that show what election is TO, which is service.

Election is to service, not salvation.

I Jesus Christ is The Chosen One:

Matt 12:18 - “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).

1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

Isa 43:10 - “You are My witnesses”, declares the Lord, “and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”

Luke 9:35 - A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

Luke 23:35 - The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

Acts 3:13 - The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed Him over to be killed, and you disowned Him before Pilate, though he had decided to let Him go.

Acts 3:20 - and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.

Acts 4:27 - Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against Your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed .

Acts 4:30 - Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.

Acts 10:42 - He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Romans 15:8 - For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs

Eph 1:22 - And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Phil 2:7 - but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Heb 1:2 - but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Heb 2:17 - For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Heb 3:2 - He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house.

Heb 3:2-6 compares Jesus with Moses as as faithful servant, who was appointed.

Heb 5:10 - God appointed him chief priest in the way Melchizedek was a priest.

Heb 7:28 - For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Heb 8:3 - Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this One ((Jesus) also to have something to offer.

Heb 10:7 - Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

II The original 12 apostles were chosen/appointed for service:

Mark 3:14 - He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

John 6:70 - Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Acts 1:2 - until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.

Acts 1:24-25 - Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart,. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry which Judas left to go where he belongs.”

III Paul was elected to service:

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Acts 27:23 - Last night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve stood beside me

Rom 1:9 - God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last nay God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

Rom 15:25 - Now, however, I am on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the Lord’s people there.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

2 Cor 4:5 - For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2 Cor 11:8 - I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Gal 1:10 - A I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Gal 1:16 - to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man

Eph 3:7,8,9 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of His power 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— direct reference to Acts 9:15. Also v.23

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

IV Angels were elected to service:

1 Tim 5:21 - I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

Heb 1:7 - In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”

Heb 1:14 - Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Rev 19:10 - At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

Rev 22:8,9 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

I could turn your silly argument around in your own face. But of course, you never answer my questions anyway.

You all talk !

Click to expand...

You make very childish comments. No substance.

Now, I have answered with Scripture. Unlike yourself.

Are you able to answer my questions to defend your claims?

Now, if you disagree, please don't just throw charges around. Actually address each and every verse that you can prove doesn't say what I claim.

Thanks.

fg

Eph 2:5 equates regeneration and salvation.

Click to expand...

This verse says nothing about faith before regeneration.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

2 Cor 5-
14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

{there is no context here for "all" to mean "only some", or "only the elect"}

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

{note that "especially" doesn't mean "only", as you may claim}

2 Tim 2-
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

{"all people" NEVER means "some people"}

Heb 2:9 - But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

{"everyone" doesn't mean "only some" or "only the elect"}

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Click to expand...

Not one of these verses says Christ didnt die for only the elect.

Bogus question. Since election isn't to salvation, why demand the Bible say that?

However, I CAN show many verses that show what election is TO, which is service.

Election is to service, not salvation.

I Jesus Christ is The Chosen One:

Matt 12:18 - “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

Mark 10:45 - For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life a ransom for many (the masses).

1 Pet 2:6 - For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”

Isa 42:1 - “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

Isa 43:10 - “You are My witnesses”, declares the Lord, “and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”

Luke 9:35 - A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

Luke 23:35 - The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is God’s Messiah, the Chosen One.”

Acts 3:13 - The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed Him over to be killed, and you disowned Him before Pilate, though he had decided to let Him go.

Acts 3:20 - and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus.

Acts 4:27 - Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against Your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed .

Acts 4:30 - Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.

Acts 10:42 - He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.

Acts 17:31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Romans 15:8 - For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs

Eph 1:22 - And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,

Phil 2:7 - but made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Heb 1:2 - but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Heb 2:17 - For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Heb 3:2 - He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house.

Heb 3:2-6 compares Jesus with Moses as as faithful servant, who was appointed.

Heb 5:10 - God appointed him chief priest in the way Melchizedek was a priest.

Heb 7:28 - For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Heb 8:3 - Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this One ((Jesus) also to have something to offer.

Heb 10:7 - Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll— I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

II The original 12 apostles were chosen/appointed for service:

Mark 3:14 - He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

John 6:70 - Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Acts 1:2 - until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen.

Acts 1:24-25 - Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart,. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry which Judas left to go where he belongs.”

III Paul was elected to service:

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Acts 27:23 - Last night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve stood beside me

Rom 1:9 - God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last nay God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

Rom 15:25 - Now, however, I am on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the Lord’s people there.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

2 Cor 4:5 - For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2 Cor 11:8 - I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Gal 1:10 - A I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Gal 1:16 - to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man

Eph 3:7,8,9 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of His power 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— direct reference to Acts 9:15. Also v.23

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

Click to expand...

Not one of these verses say election is not to salvation.

IV Angels were elected to service:

1 Tim 5:21 - I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

Heb 1:7 - In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire.”

Heb 1:14 - Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Rev 19:10 - At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”

Rev 22:8,9 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

I could turn your silly argument around in your own face. But of course, you never answer my questions anyway.

Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with Angels. Christ didnt die for them, in fact they serve the elect unto Salvation Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

You make very childish comments. No substance.

Now, I have answered with Scripture. Unlike yourself.

Are you able to answer my questions to defend your claims?

Now, if you disagree, please don't just throw charges around. Actually address each and every verse that you can prove doesn't say what I claim.

Click to expand...

You havent proved nothing, just spammed up Gods word.

I said:
"Eph 2:5 equates regeneration and salvation."

Brightfame52 said:

fg
This verse says nothing about faith before regeneration.

Click to expand...

That wasn't the point I was making in 2:5. Can you refute my point that 2:5 equates regeneration and salvation? Yes or no?

Didn't you read the rest of my post?

Not one of these verses says Christ didnt die for only the elect.

Click to expand...

I explained your bogus question. Don't you read my posts?

What ALL of the verses clearly stated that Jesus died for all, everyone, the whole world.

What's wrong with you anyway?

Not one of these verses say election is not to salvation.

Click to expand...

Another bogus comment. The Bible doesn't have to say what something isn't when it clearly says what something IS.

It seems to me you are having significant cognitive difficulties.

This has nothing to do with Angels. Christ didnt die for them, in fact they serve the elect unto Salvation Heb 1:14

Click to expand...

Again, my point is about election. The Bible describes elect angels. So deal with it.

And the verses I quoted show that angels are elected to serve God and mankind.

You havent proved nothing, just spammed up Gods word.

Click to expand...

Your double negative "haven't...nothing" actually means a positive. So, yes, I have proved what I have claimed.

If you don't believe what I say about double negatives, just find an English teacher and ask about it. The research will do you good.

All you've done is ignore the truth. I've proved my claims with verses that teach what I claim. Which is why I claim what I do.

Unlike yourself, who can't find ANY verse that says or teaches what you claim.

I challenged you to prove your claims, and you failed to even try.

Instead, you challenged me to prove my claims, and I did.

Anyone reading this thread knows who doesn't have any substance or defense. You

FreeGrace2 said:

I said:
"Eph 2:5 equates regeneration and salvation."

That wasn't the point I was making in 2:5. Can you refute my point that 2:5 equates regeneration and salvation? Yes or no?

Didn't you read the rest of my post?


I explained your bogus question. Don't you read my posts?

What ALL of the verses clearly stated that Jesus died for all, everyone, the whole world.

What's wrong with you anyway?


Another bogus comment. The Bible doesn't have to say what something isn't when it clearly says what something IS.

It seems to me you are having significant cognitive difficulties.


Again, my point is about election. The Bible describes elect angels. So deal with it.

And the verses I quoted show that angels are elected to serve God and mankind.


Your double negative "haven't...nothing" actually means a positive. So, yes, I have proved what I have claimed.

If you don't believe what I say about double negatives, just find an English teacher and ask about it. The research will do you good.

All you've done is ignore the truth. I've proved my claims with verses that teach what I claim. Which is why I claim what I do.

Unlike yourself, who can't find ANY verse that says or teaches what you claim.

I challenged you to prove your claims, and you failed to even try.

Instead, you challenged me to prove my claims, and I did.

Anyone reading this thread knows who doesn't have any substance or defense. You

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So you made no points with scripture!

Brightfame52 said:

So you made no points with scripture!

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No, it's just that you see no point in Scripture.

You'd rather stick with your talking points, which cannot be found in Scripture.

Brightfame52 said:

I understand Faith is the fruit of regeneration of the Spirit.

2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

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Keep reading on to verse 14 (2 Thessalonians 2:14). God having chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth is a CALL OF THE GOSPEL.

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Also, sanctification of the Spirit is referring to holy living. Just look at the context of verse 12 (2 Thessalonians 2:12), and verses 16-17 (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).

Also, the Bible says that many are called but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

Why would God call those who are not chosen? This is where Calvinism starts to crumble. This is why Calvinism is like a person who is attempting to shove a round peg into a square hole.

Brightfame52 said:

What verse teaches that man is able to believe before regeneration ?

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Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

The Word of God would be the words of Jesus or our Bible.
It is the faith.

The Bible tells us to...
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,...”
(Acts of the Apostles 3:19).

You said:

What verse says that Christ didnt die ONLY for the elect?

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1 John 2:2 says, “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

2 Peter 2:1 says,
“...there shall be false teachers among you,... even denying the Lord that bought them,...”

You said:

What verse says that election is not to salvation?

You all talk !

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Romans 11:28 says, “As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.”

2 Thessalonians 2:10 is a big one that refutes Calvinism. It says, “And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

So what is the reason behind why there are those who are perishing in this verse? They are perishing because THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. There is no.... MIGHT BE SAVED in Calvinism. This is why Calvinism does not make any sense when a person reads their Bible. Calvinism and the Bible are incompatible. If Calvinism was true, 2 Thessalonians 2:10 would say that they perish because God elected them to reprobation. But the verse does not say that. It puts the blame or fault on the person not receiving the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED.

Also, look at the story of Jonah. Jonah told the Ninevites that Judgment was coming for them in 40 days. But such a judgment did not happen because the Ninevites repented. The Ninevites had cried out to God and they forsaken their evil ways. When God had seen that they forsaken their wickedness, that is when God decided to turn back from bringing Judgment or wrath upon them. Just read Jonah 3:6-10. Check the verses for yourself and you will see. Calvinism is not compatible with this portion of Jonah's story or narrative. Calvinism does not make a lick of sense in this part of the story. Clearly the Ninevites changed the scenario. The Ninevites were not chosen to salvation. For God had changed based on what they did. God did not zap them to be changed or saved.

Bible Highlighter said:

Keep reading on to verse 14 (2 Thessalonians 2:14). God having chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth is a CALL OF THE GOSPEL.

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Also, sanctification of the Spirit is referring to holy living. Just look at the context of verse 12 (2 Thessalonians 2:12), and verses 16-17 (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).

Also, the Bible says that many are called but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

Why would God call those who are not chosen? This is where Calvinism starts to crumble. This is why Calvinism is like a person who is attempting to shove a round peg into a square hole.

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Nothing has changed, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22; 2 Thess 2:13

Bible Highlighter said:

Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

The Word of God would be the words of Jesus or our Bible.
It is the faith.

The Bible tells us to...
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,...”
(Acts of the Apostles 3:19).



1 John 2:2 says, “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

2 Peter 2:1 says,
“...there shall be false teachers among you,... even denying the Lord that bought them,...”



Romans 11:28 says, “As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.”

Click to expand...

One must be born of God to hear Gods Words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Brightfame52 said:

Nothing has changed, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22; 2 Thess 2:13

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Certainly your mind has not been changed by the facts of Scripture.