Old Mosaic Law Covenant Obsolete!

BABerean2 said:

The contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant is found below.


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.




Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, (Mount Sinai)

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


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Those passages are all true....But it does not annul what I have written.

When it comes down to it....If the heart is good then the deeds will be.

The new Covenant focuses on the heart that is one reason we are to be obedient to The Spirit. To walk and live by it. For what we practice is what we become. [as in shaping our character]

Then if our heart is right...then what comes out of the heart will be too.

Edit: Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

corinth77777 said:

Those passages are all true....But it does not annul what I have written.

When it comes down to it....If the heart is good then the deeds will be.

The new Covenant focuses on the heart that is one reason we are to be obedient to The Spirit. To walk and live by it. For what we practice is what we become. [as in shaping our character]

Then if our heart is right...then what comes out of the heart will be too.

Edit: Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

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Another words one does not keep the law by trying to keep the Law.
The heart is being transformed by the Spirit so that we naturally come to do what is now taking up its space.

Nova2216 said:

Who were these wrote too?

(Heb. 7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10)

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

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So you think the Law is done away with?

corinth77777 said:

Another words one does not keep the law by trying to keep the Law.
The heart is being transformed by the Spirit so that we naturally come to do what is now taking up its space.

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That was the whole problem with the pharisees.....They would teach people to do things they didn't do themselves.
They looked good on the outside but their heart did not add up.

HIM said:

So you think the Law is done away with?

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A rotary telephone still works, but it is "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) when compared to a new more modern cell phone.

In Matthew chapter 5 Christ quotes from the Old Covenant and then says... "But I say...".
This is done about 8 times.
See the example below.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Based on the above, the New Covenant is a higher standard of conduct than the Old Covenant.

In the Old Covenant adultery did not occur until a man and a woman came together, as it was when King David committed adultery.

In the New Covenant even thinking about adultery is a sin.
However, both examples are still sin. One does not erase the other.

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klutedavid said:

I don't think God wrote the law of Moses on our hearts?

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord, I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

What law is God talking about here, i.e., what is that law that is written on their hearts by God?

Romans 5:5
And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

2 Thessalonians 3:5
May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the steadfastness of Christ.

Colossians 2:2
That their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love.

Colossians 3:14
Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13
And may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you; so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

Ephesians 3:17
So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love.

2 Thessalonians 3:5
May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the steadfastness of Christ.

1 Timothy 1:5
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

1 Peter 1:22
Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart.

1 John 3:17
But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

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All of the laws that God has given were given for the purpose of teaching us what it means to love Him and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected. The moment you try to take just the command to love, all of the other laws come with because they are all attached, so love fulfills the Mosaic Law because it is inclusive of everything in it.

Your argument holds true, if and only if, Paul means the Mosaic law within that phrase, 'God's law'. What happens to your argument if Paul implies the Royal Law when he uses that phrase, 'God's law'.

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The Law of God straightforwardly refers to the laws that God has given and Paul said nothing to specify that he was speaking only about some of God's laws and not others. Paul referred to the command not to covet in Romans 7:7-8, so whatever he was referring to in 7:22 is inclusive of that law. If you want to say that the Royal law is inclusive of the command not to covet, then I'd agree because the Royal Law is inclusive of God's other laws, which is why it is the Royal Law. In regard to James 1:25, the Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is a law of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1), so the Royal Law does not refer to something other than the Law of Moses.

No matter how good your argument may appear. Nevertheless, we are no longer bound by the letter of the law.

"so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter"

The letter of the law has been replaced, changed, in the New Covenant. The Spirit is now the guide in all things.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit dominates the Christian life and love is the penultimate gift.

When the priesthood changed so did the law.

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The distinction between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is not in regard to following different sets of laws, but in regard to the manner in which someone obeys a law without regard to the intent behind it. For example:

Leviticus 19:12 “‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

Someone who was focused on obeying the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us not to swear falsely, whereas someone who was focused on obeying the letter of this law exactly how it was written would understand that we can swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name, which incidentally is what Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 5:33-37. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the law, so the Mosaic Law is intended to teach us how to express God's character traits. So obeying the Mosaic Law according to the letter undermines both the intent of what God has commanded His followers to do and why He has commanded us to do it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.

The Spirit is not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, but rather the Spirit specifically has the role of leading us to obey both mishpatim and chukim (Ezekiel 36:26-27), which make up the majority of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). The Mosaic Law can't accurately be described as having a particular aspect of God's nature if its content does not teach us how to express that aspect of God's nature. Likewise, God's ways are all aspects of God's nature, and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others, and the aspects of God's nature are all fruits of the Spirit.

The fruits of the Spirit are all spiritual principles that God's law was intended to teach us how to express. For example, God's righteous laws teach us about His righteousness and help us to understand a deeper spiritual principle of righteousness which guides us to take actions that are examples of that principle both in situations that are specifically prescribed by God's law and those that are now. So correctly understanding a spiritual principle will never lead us away from following laws that are examples of that principle, which is why walking in the Spirit will never lead us to disobey the Mosaic Law.

HIM said:

So you think the Law is done away with?

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OT Law has been ABOLISHED, DONE AWAY, DECAYETH (Heb. 7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10) (Eph. 2:14-17) (Col. 2:14-17) (Rom. 10:4) (Gal. 4:21-31)

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

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2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,

The body is the church. (Eph. 1:22,23) (Col. 1:18,24)

All the saved are located in the church. (Acts 2:38,47)

Nova2216 said:

OT Law has been ABOLISHED, DONE AWAY, DECAYETH (Heb. 7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10) (Eph. 2:14-17) (Col. 2:14-17) (Rom. 10:4) (Gal. 4:21-31)

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

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2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness,

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body,

The body is the church. (Eph. 1:22,23) (Col. 1:18,24)

All the saved are located in the church. (Acts 2:38,47)

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The New Covenant is the Commandments in our heart and mind. His Word in our heart and mouth.

So how is it you say it is done away if it is in our hearts and minds?

BABerean2 said:

In Matthew chapter 5 Christ quotes from the Old Covenant and then says... "But I say...".
This is done about 8 times.
See the example below.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Based on the above, the New Covenant is a higher standard of conduct than the Old Covenant.

In the Old Covenant adultery did not occur until a man and a woman came together, as it was when King David committed adultery.

In the New Covenant even thinking about adultery is a sin.
However, both examples are still sin. One does not erase the other.

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What you speak of is what Jesus meant when He said
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matt 5:17 [KJV])
Fulfill in the sense of showing what is meant to the utter most.
In Matthew chapter 5:16-21 according to Jesus we are to let our light shine before men that they see our good works that our Father be glorified. In respect to this He said that, "Until Heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled." Therefore he said in respect to the law, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven". And then in respect to that he says, "For I say unto you". That means as in verse 18 that what follows is directly related to what is about to be said. The use of the word "for" dictates this as does the word "that". So in respect to being called least in the Kingdom of Heaven for breaking one of these least commandments, and teaching men so, except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
So what does it mean to be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven?
It means We shall in no case enter therein if we shall break one of these least (smallest) commandment and teach men so.
By the way, If there are commandments that are considered least, small in the mind and heart of God that means there are greater ones also.
Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
For all the law and the prophets hang, depend on these two. Matthew 22:37-40
Incidentally how can we be under that which now has become part of us through Christ?
For God has said His Law is in our hearts and in our minds, His Word in our hearts and mouths that is the word of faith in which we preach.
Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

klutedavid said:

I read that differently to you.

The righteous requirement is granted to us as a gift, the perfect righteousness of Christ.

The righteous requirement is fulfilled in us, not so much, we achieve that righteousness ourselves. That would be putting the cart before the horse. Jesus is the alpha (first) and the omega (last) in everything.

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Righteousness is a character trait of God that is straightforwardly expressed by doing what is righteous. Christ expressed His righteousness through His actions and what that looked like was a life lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is what it looks like for us to receive the gift of the righteousness of Christ, and that is how the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us.

You may need to expand on what you think Romans 3:31 is saying.

If we establish the law, then circumcision, sacrifice, festivals, offerings, are all back on the table.

Is that what Paul is saying in Romans 3:31, because that is what, 'establish the law', means?

We can add a bit more context to Romans 3:31.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

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Paul said that we are justified by faith apart from works of the law, which is true insofar as there are no works that we can do to earn our salvation, however, he did not want us to conclude that our faith therefore abolishes our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, which is true insofar as the same faith by which we are justified is also expressed as obedience to it. This is essentially what Luther was saying when he said that we are justified by faith alone, but that faith is never alone. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so only those who have faith will be doers of the law and will be justified by the same faith, which is why Paul could say in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified while also denying in Romans 4:4-5 that our justification is something that can be earned as a wage.

Good post. The law grants the knowledge of sin, all have failed, we need a savior.

That is a good summary of the intent of the law. You are not a good person, is what the law is actually telling you. Obey the law to some extent, then you end up becoming self righteous.

The law condemns everyone.

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Our need for a savior does not stop at just restoring us to how we were be before we sinned, but also extends to making us like him. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described both as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His gift of salvation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus did not just give himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, but also gave himself to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works. So becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is what it means to believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross (Acts 21:20). Obeying God's law has never been about trying to become something other than who we are, but about acting more in line with who He has created us to be.

If God's law were His instructions for how to become self-righteous, and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then God therefore does not want His people to obey His law, which is absurd, especially considering that all throughout the Bible, God called for His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, therefore God's law was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, but as instructions to teach us how to testify about God's righteousness. To say that God gave the law to condemn His children is expressing an extremely poor opinion about God when in reality it was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). God can be trusted to guide us in the way to rightly should live through His law and He can be trusted to set us up for success, not failure.

HIM said:

So in respect to being called least in the Kingdom of Heaven for breaking one of these least commandments, and teaching men so, except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
So what does it mean to be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven?
It means We shall in no case enter therein if we shall break one of these least (smallest) commandment and teach men so.

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If you are committing adultery and teaching others to do the same thing, then you can not be a part of the New Covenant and "born again" of the Spirit of God.

Paul had to correct Peter for not treating the Gentile believers correctly in the Book of Galatians.
Therefore, even the Apostles were not perfect.

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BABerean2 said:

If you are committing adultery and teaching others to do the same thing, then you can not be a part of the New Covenant and "born again" of the Spirit of God.

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A chip off the old block is someone who has the same nature and character as their father and this is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God in that the Son is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through his actions by living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so this is also the sense that we have been born again as children of God through partaking in the divine nature in obedience to God's law. This is why 1 John 3:4-10, sin is the transgression of God's law and those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to it are not children of God.

Paul had to correct Peter for not treating the Gentile believers correctly in the Book of Galatians.
Therefore, even the Apostles were not perfect..

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In Acts 10:28, Peter referred to a law that forbade Jews to visit or associate with Gentiles, which is not found anywhere in God's law, and is therefore a man-made law. It was this law that Paul rebuked Peter for obeying in Galatians 2:11-16 when he stopped visiting or associating with the Gentiles. By doing so Peter was giving credibility to those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified, which is by Paul reiterated that we are justified by faith and not by works of the law.

A rotary telephone still works, but it is "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13) when compared to a new more modern cell phone.

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In Hebrews 8:6-13, God did not find fault with His law, but rather He found fault with the people for not continuing in His covenant because of the hardness of their hearts, so the solution to the problem was not to do away with His law, but to do away with what was hindering people from keeping it. This is why the New Covenant involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us in obedience to His law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), sending His Son to free us from sin so that we might be free to obey the law and meet its righteous requirement (Romans 8:3-4), and putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts so that we will obey it (Hebrews 8:10), so while the Mosaic Covenant as become obsolete, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it.

In Matthew chapter 5 Christ quotes from the Old Covenant and then says... "But I say...".
This is done about 8 times.
See the example below.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Based on the above, the New Covenant is a higher standard of conduct than the Old Covenant.

In the Old Covenant adultery did not occur until a man and a woman came together, as it was when King David committed adultery.

In the New Covenant even thinking about adultery is a sin.
However, both examples are still sin. One does not erase the other.

Click to expand...

Whenever Jesus directly quoted Scripture, he preceded it by saying "it is written...", but when he was quoting from what the people hard heard being taught, he preceded it by saying "you have heard that it was said...", so his emphasis on the different form of communication is important. Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by making changes to the law, but rather he was fulfilling the law by correcting what was wrongly being taught about it and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it was originally intended. For example, the command not to look at a woman with lust in our hearts is just the correct application of the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and against coveting in our hearts, not something brand new in disagreement with the Father. However, even if Jesus could have raised the bar without disqualifying himself as our Savior, it would mean that we should at least obey the Mosaic Law plus whatever else he raised the bar to.

HIM said:

The New Covenant is the Commandments in our heart and mind. His Word in our heart and mouth.

So how is it you say it is done away if it is in our hearts and minds?

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When we open our bible we notice there are two covenants (OT / NT).

A covenant (or law) is an agreement between two or more people.

The OT Law was only made with Jews. (Ex. 34:27,28)

Ex 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.


Both are laws (OT / NT) but the Latter (NT Law) is "different" from the first (OT Law).

Note (Jer.31:31-34) and (Heb. 8:6-13)


Notice what the following scripture says.

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.



I contend men are under law today. (Gal. 6:2) (James 1:25)

We are under the NT Law today (Mt. 7:21-23).

Notice those who claim men are not under law today are those who will be lost. ( iniquity / lawlessness) (Mt. 7:23)


Thanks

Soyeong said:

so while the Mosaic Covenant as become obsolete, God's eternal law did not become obsolete along with it.

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Are you saying the ten commandments and the Sinai Covenant are two different things?

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire.
Deu 5:5 I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain. He said:
Deu 5:6 'I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 'You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deu 5:8 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Deu 5:9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Deu 5:10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deu 5:11 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Deu 5:12 'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
Deu 5:17 'You shall not murder.
Deu 5:18 'You shall not commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 'You shall not steal.
Deu 5:20 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Deu 5:21 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.'
Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.
Deu 5:23 "So it was, when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, that you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders.
Deu 5:24 And you said: 'Surely the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives.



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HIM said:

The New Covenant is the Commandments in our heart and mind. His Word in our heart and mouth.

So how is it you say it is done away if it is in our hearts and minds?

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How do we get those words or thoughts of the Lord into our minds?

Studying Gods word. (2Tim. 2:15) (2Tim. 3:14-17)

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

BABerean2 said:

Are you saying the ten commandments and the Sinai Covenant are two different things?

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.


Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire.
Deu 5:5 I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain. He said:
Deu 5:6 'I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 'You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deu 5:8 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Deu 5:9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Deu 5:10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deu 5:11 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Deu 5:12 'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
Deu 5:17 'You shall not murder.
Deu 5:18 'You shall not commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 'You shall not steal.
Deu 5:20 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Deu 5:21 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.'
Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.
Deu 5:23 "So it was, when you heard the voice from the midst of the darkness, while the mountain was burning with fire, that you came near to me, all the heads of your tribes and your elders.
Deu 5:24 And you said: 'Surely the LORD our God has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire. We have seen this day that God speaks with man; yet he still lives.



.

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All of God's righteous laws are eternal, not just ten of them (Psalms 119:160). In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so all of the Mosaic Law was given by God and part of the covenant that God made with Israel. If God has made the New Covenant with us that he didn't make with the ancient Israelites, and if it contains at least some of the same laws, then there is nothing about God making a covenant with the ancient Israelites that he hadn't made with their fathers that implies that any of its laws were not previously give. For example, in Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin against God to commit adultery long before the Mosaic Covenant had been made, and in remains a sin to commit adultery after the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any of God's covenants being made or becoming obsolete that changes which actions are righteous or sinful, but rather God's law reveals what has always been and will always be the way to do what is righteous and to refrain from sin.

Nova2216 said:

How do we get those words or thoughts of the Lord into our minds?

Studying Gods word. (2Tim. 2:15) (2Tim. 3:14-17)

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

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It is God that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. For He has said I will put my laws into your minds and in your hearts write them. For His word is nigh unto to us, in our hearts and in our moths; that is the word of faith in which we preach.

HIM said:

It is God that works in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. For He has said I will put my laws into your minds and in your hearts write them. For His word is nigh unto to us, in our hearts and in our moths; that is the word of faith in which we preach.

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Ref
DUET 30 ;11

For this commandment I give you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’ 13And it is not beyond the sea, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’ 14But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it.15See, I have set before you today life and goodness, as well as death and disaster. 16For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess.

corinth77777 said:

Ref
DUET 30 ;11

For this commandment I give you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’ 13And it is not beyond the sea, that you should need to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it for us and proclaim it, that we may obey it?’ 14But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may obey it.15See, I have set before you today life and goodness, as well as death and disaster. 16For I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, statutes, and ordinances, so that you may live and increase, and the LORD your God may bless you in the land that you are entering to possess.

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Which is quoted in Rom 10:6-8
(Rom 10:6 [KJV])
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)

(Rom 10:7 [KJV])
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

(Rom 10:8 [KJV])
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Soyeong said:

All of the laws that God has given were given for the purpose of teaching us what it means to love Him and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected. The moment you try to take just the command to love, all of the other laws come with because they are all attached, so love fulfills the Mosaic Law because it is inclusive of everything in it.



The Law of God straightforwardly refers to the laws that God has given and Paul said nothing to specify that he was speaking only about some of God's laws and not others. Paul referred to the command not to covet in Romans 7:7-8, so whatever he was referring to in 7:22 is inclusive of that law. If you want to say that the Royal law is inclusive of the command not to covet, then I'd agree because the Royal Law is inclusive of God's other laws, which is why it is the Royal Law. In regard to James 1:25, the Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is a law of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1), so the Royal Law does not refer to something other than the Law of Moses.



The distinction between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is not in regard to following different sets of laws, but in regard to the manner in which someone obeys a law without regard to the intent behind it. For example:

Leviticus 19:12 “‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

Someone who was focused on obeying the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us not to swear falsely, whereas someone who was focused on obeying the letter of this law exactly how it was written would understand that we can swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name, which incidentally is what Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 5:33-37. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the law, so the Mosaic Law is intended to teach us how to express God's character traits. So obeying the Mosaic Law according to the letter undermines both the intent of what God has commanded His followers to do and why He has commanded us to do it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.

The Spirit is not in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, but rather the Spirit specifically has the role of leading us to obey both mishpatim and chukim (Ezekiel 36:26-27), which make up the majority of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to the Law of God. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it.

The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23). The Mosaic Law can't accurately be described as having a particular aspect of God's nature if its content does not teach us how to express that aspect of God's nature. Likewise, God's ways are all aspects of God's nature, and there are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others, and the aspects of God's nature are all fruits of the Spirit.

The fruits of the Spirit are all spiritual principles that God's law was intended to teach us how to express. For example, God's righteous laws teach us about His righteousness and help us to understand a deeper spiritual principle of righteousness which guides us to take actions that are examples of that principle both in situations that are specifically prescribed by God's law and those that are now. So correctly understanding a spiritual principle will never lead us away from following laws that are examples of that principle, which is why walking in the Spirit will never lead us to disobey the Mosaic Law.

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Your entire argument collapses on one point.

If Gentiles were circumcised, then I would agree with you. What we are told is the Gentiles were not under that law to be circumcised. Hence, the law can only be a temporary entity with a singular purpose. To only grant the knowledge of sin. On that basis, we establish the law.

If one letter of the law (circumcision) has passed, then the entire law has passed.

It is illogical to apply the law of Moses with laws missing from the set.