Here's why people are skeptical about vaccine safety

expos4ever

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It explains why governments almost only get bigger rather than smaller--at least willingly.
I doubt this is really true when the analysis is done properly. As population grows, the government would naturally get bigger. Do you have any evidence that governments are generally getting bigger when population is controlled for?
 
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timothyu

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What, exactly, are you talking about? What organization?
Do you have any credible evidence - even a smidgen - for this?
Do some reading up on the WEF (World Economic Forum). I need say no more. Familiarize yourself with the players who have replaced capitalism with corporatism. They are quite open about their agenda on their website. Even Biden, Trudeau, British, European and other leaders refer to their agenda The Pope recently gave it his blessing a couple months back.

BTW.. as far as governments go, they went from local to municipal/county, to provincial/state to federal, and now global. So yes they grow and not according to population, but according to level of power.
 
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Pommer

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Do some reading up on the WEF (World Economic Forum). I need say no more. Familiarize yourself with the players who have replaced capitalism with corporatism. They are quite open about their agenda on their website. Even Biden, Trudeau, British, European and other leaders refer to their agenda The Pope recently gave it his blessing a couple months back.
Maybe it’s not a grand set of networks bent on ushering in the End Times but just the normal political chaos it’s been for 246 years?
 
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muichimotsu

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Kassidi Kurill, 39, died on February 5, four days after taking the second dose of the Moderna injection.

The woman from Ogden, Utah, had no known preexisting health conditions.

However, the Utah Department of Health’s chief medical examiner Dr Erik Christensen said Kurill’s death was just “temporally related” to the second Moderna dose.

“We don't have any evidence that there are connections between the vaccines and deaths at this point,” Christensen he told Fox News.
...

He added that proving that the vaccine caused Kurill’s death would be difficult unless it was an anaphylaxis case, meaning sudden death.

'Healthy' single mom, 39, who 'died of multiple organ failure' after Moderna Covid vaccine 'did NOT die from jab' (thesun.co.uk)

After further review:

The COVID-19 vaccine did not factor in the death of a West Point woman whose passing days after getting her second inoculation shot prompted questions from her family, according to health officials.

The Utah Department of Health and the Office of Medical Examiner, or OME, issued a statement Thursday saying it had investigated the deaths of people who had recently taken the vaccine. After conducting the probes, the statement said, investigators found no links between the vaccine and any deaths.

“The OME has determined there have been NO DEATHS caused by the COVID-19 vaccines to date in Utah. The OME is committed to investigating any deaths that fall under its jurisdiction where decedents had recently received the COVID-19 vaccine,” the statement read.


Utah health officials say COVID-19 vaccine hasn't factored in any deaths | Health Care | standard.net

It's pretty far fetched that a healthy 39-year old woman gets the shot, begins feeling ill immediately, dies within 4 days, and is still determined that "the vaccine didn't contribute to the death".

Here's the real crux of it, later on in the story:

Thursday’s statement seemed to reference the news stories about Kurill, warning against reporting on such things prematurely. “To that end, we call on members of the media to wait for all the facts to be known prior to reporting information that could lead to undue diminished confidence in these life-saving vaccines,” said the statement.

The Utah Department of Health and OME statement said officials will investigate reports of serious side effects. “Public confidence in the COVID-19 vaccine is critical, and providing absolute transparency on the vaccine’s side effects is our goal,” it said.

The media and officials are concerned primarily about instilling confidence in the vaccines. Transparency about the side effects seems secondary, at best.

There were 3 other instances of deaths of allegedly healthy people in Utah who died after their vaccines. Similarly, all have been determined to be only "temporally related". The others were all older, and i haven't been able to find any additional information about the specifics of those cases, so i can't comment as to whether they were likely or even potentially vaccine related.

I acknowledge that the deaths from the vaccines are (extremely) rare. However, when they don't classify someone who a) was healthy, b) immediately got sick after taking the vaccine, and c) died in short order as "a death that the vaccine contributed to", it calls the statistics they provide about the safety of vaccines into question.
The problem is correlation fallacy, it could've had a factor, but there could easily be other factors that contributed to it. Medical science is not cut and dry, since every person is going to have varying reactions to anything, practically speaking.

There will be some similarity, but that doesn't mean it's universal across the board with everything. My reaction to peanuts may be fine, like with shellfish, but my friend could nearly go into anaphylactic shock without taking some Benadryl beforehand (unless it's gotten worse, in which case just no shellfish)

The rarity of the deaths should be a sign that there aren't nearly the same concerns we might've had with older vaccine types, since this is mRNA, which has been researched for a generation, practically, versus the older types that are more in public knowledge that then spread fear about things that might've been a problem, but were addressed with more research, like how science works in general.
 
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JSRG

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I doubt this is really true when the analysis is done properly. As population grows, the government would naturally get bigger. Do you have any evidence that governments are generally getting bigger when population is controlled for?
Honestly I think it has more to do with communications and transport speed. When someone in Washington, D.C. is able to instantly and in detail communicate with anyone on the west coast, obviously a leader is going to be able to have a lot more control and influence throughout the country.

This applies not to just communications, but also transport speed in terms of being being able to personally and physically go to other locations. At one point, going from one end of the country to the other would take months. Then the Transcontinental Railroad came along and the trip got shortened to weeks. Nowadays you can go from one coast to the other in less than a day.

Due to technology, government can be far, far more centralized than it ever could have been in the past.
 
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High Fidelity

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People die, sometimes seemingly spontaneously despite being 'healthy' and young. It happens. There's just a microscope on things at the moment because many are assuming it's related to vaccines.

Will there be deaths resulting from vaccines? Sure, people die from medicines all the time despite being extremely safe for the overwhelming majority of people.

The contraceptive pill is orders of magnitude more dangerous than these vaccines and yet no one bats an eye about those... because despite the increased risk they pose, the resulting risk is still negligible.
 
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expos4ever

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My wife works with a 49 year old man who recently died of a heart attack. We discovered afterward that he took the Johnson and Johnson vaccination 3 weeks before he died. :(
Correlation fallacy (if you are implying a connection).
 
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Rachel20

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There are multiple reasons to be skeptical of the "vaccines:
1) They are not FDA approved (haven't t been thru the rigorous studies required for full license)
2) RNA versions have never been used on humans before - check out the completion dates for their "safety tests" here:
Study to Describe the Safety, Tolerability, Immunogenicity, and Efficacy of RNA Vaccine Candidates Against COVID-19 in Healthy Individuals - Tabular View - ClinicalTrials.gov
3) The long term effects are completely unknown - pathogenic priming is just one possibility
Pathogenic priming likely contributes to serious and critical illness and mortality in COVID-19 via autoimmunity
4)Hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components may be induced per results in ferrets, cats, and mice:

Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus

Antibody-Dependent Enhancement of Feline Infectious Peritonitis Virus Infection in Feline Alveolar Macrophages and Human Monocyte Cell Line U937 by Serum of Cats Experimentally or Naturally Infected with Feline Coronavirus

Immunization with SARS coronavirus vaccines leads to pulmonary immunopathology on challenge with the SARS virus - PubMed

Vaccine efficacy in senescent mice challenged with recombinant SARS-CoV bearing epidemic and zoonotic spike variants - PubMed

Prior immunization with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) nucleocapsid protein causes severe pneumonia in mice infected with SARS-CoV - PubMed
5) VAERS is a voluntary reporting system, the true numbers are unknown
 
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Danthemailman

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Correlation fallacy (if you are implying a connection).
So you believe it’s just a coincidence that he died of a heart attack three weeks after receiving the vaccine? No connection at all?
 
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expos4ever

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There are multiple reasons to be skeptical of the "vaccines:......
Let's say all this is true. Assuming you believe you are presenting a case for not getting vaccinated, can you explain, then, why there is almost virtual unanimity among trained experts that we should get vaccinated?

I cannot imagine how you will be able to set forth any account that does not amount to a conspiracy theory. But we'll see.
 
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expos4ever

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So you believe it’s just a coincidence that he died of a heart attack three weeks after receiving the vaccine? No i connection at all?
I bet it was a coincidence - 49 year old men die of heart attacks all the time.

However, that is not really the point. You are committing a basic fallacy in reasoning - assuming that correlation implies causation. Now if you can present evidence of a causal relation between the vaccine and the death, then we would be getting somewhere. But even then, we know that vaccines sometimes do kill. But what would be your point even then? Covid 19 is much more of a killer.
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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So you believe it’s just a coincidence that he died of a heart attack three weeks after receiving the vaccine? No connection at all?

I think its only not a coincidence if you die WITH covid only that can be listed as dying FROM covid but if you die after the covid vaccine its practically unthinkable to implicate the vaccine, it becomes a normal every day thing when it comes to the vaccine.
 
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expos4ever

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I think its only not a coincidence if you die WITH covid only that can be listed as dying FROM covid but if you die after the covid vaccine its practically unthinkable to implicate the vaccine, it becomes a normal every day thing when it comes to the vaccine.
Do you have any actual evidence to support these statements? Anyone can conjure any wild possibilities - responsible reasoning requires evidence.

I guarantee you will not be able to provide any such evidence. Perhaps you will find something to post, but I equally guarantee that when we unpack what you have posted, we will find that your implication is entirely without basis.

The best you will be able to do is to point to a handful of specific cases. And that would be like arguing that seatbelts are bad simply because 5 people a year are killed by seatbelts when they would not have died otherwise.
 
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