Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

jgr said:

You and I and this forum and the Protestant Christian Church would not exist if not for the Reformation.

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The reformers created you? And invented electricity? And computers?

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

jgr said:

Their DNA was Abrahamic.

Same as the rest of the human race.

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Dialogue between the Jews and JESUS: John 8KJV

the Jews said: - We be Abraham's seed,...John 8:v.33KJV
- JESUS said: - I know that ye are Abraham's seed...John 8:v.37KJV (Positive)

Jews said: - Abraham is our father.... John 8:v.39KJV
- JESUS said:- If ye were Abraham's children...John 8:v.39KJV (If???? hum!!!)

Jews said: - We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8:v.41KJV
- JESUS said: - If God were your Father...John 8:v.42KJV (If???? hum!!!)
- JESUS said to the Jews: Why do ye not understand my speech? John 8:v.43
- JESUS openly and emphaticaly said to the Jews: Ye are of your father the Devil...,

Why did JESUS call the Jews of serpents? It is because they are sons of the old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, now red Dragon. Matt.23:v.33-35:
33 -Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

To all
What is the mystery JESUS links the Jews to the murder of Abel? That upon the Jews may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth?

Douggg said:

The reformers created you? And invented electricity? And computers?

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

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Are you running to and fro?

Has to be on foot; mechanized transport does not have feet to run.

Oseas said:

Dialogue between the Jews and JESUS: John 8KJV

the Jews said: - We be Abraham's seed,...John 8:v.33KJV
- JESUS said: - I know that ye are Abraham's seed...John 8:v.37KJV (Positive)

Jews said: - Abraham is our father.... John 8:v.39KJV
- JESUS said:- If ye were Abraham's children...John 8:v.39KJV (If???? hum!!!)

Jews said: - We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. John 8:v.41KJV
- JESUS said: - If God were your Father...John 8:v.42KJV (If???? hum!!!)
- JESUS said to the Jews: Why do ye not understand my speech? John 8:v.43
- JESUS openly and emphaticaly said to the Jews: Ye are of your father the Devil...,

Why did JESUS call the Jews of serpents? It is because they are sons of the old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, now red Dragon. Matt.23:v.33-35:
33 -Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

To all
What is the mystery JESUS links the Jews to the murder of Abel? That upon the Jews may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth?

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If you are saying that physical DNA is irrelevant to God, and only spiritual DNA (faith and obedience) are of significance to Him, you are correct.

Douggg said:

Everyone here in this forum believes that Jesus is the messiah.

Not everyone here agrees regarding the 70th week having been fulfilled or not.

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If one believes that Jesus was the anticipated and promised Messiah.....they ought to search the ancient Hebrew Scriptures (not seek information from modern-day book sellers or YouTube producers that are interested in making money). King Herod knew when the Messiah was promised (which is why he ordered the male babies around 4 BC to be killed). The wise men from the East knew......

Douggg said:

There is a timeline framework for the end times events, spanning the 7 year 70th week in Ezekiel 39. Which also all of the time expressions in Revelation fit into.

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That is Jesus's ministry on earth (the 70th week of 7 years).....27 AD until the Cross (30 AD) and the 3.5 years the witnesses of His fulfillment of prophecies spread the Resurrection message in ancient Jerusalem.....the City of David.

mkgal1 said:

If one believes that Jesus was the anticipated and promised Messiah.....they ought to search the ancient Hebrew Scriptures (not seek information from modern-day book sellers or YouTube producers that are interestedin making money). King Herod knew when the Messiah was promised (which is why he ordered the male babies around 4 BC to be killed). The wise men from the East knew......

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mkgal1, you appear to be trying to convince me that Jesus is the messiah. Everyone here in this forum believes that Jesus is the messiah.

mkgal1 said:

Not in orthodox Christianity.

With the growth of non-denominational churches.....many modern churches are far from what the early Resurrection movement of the early Church taught.

Apocalyptic Literature

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I am speaking about what is in the bible, the end times prophecies.

Here is my chart of the Ezekiel 39, infallible timeline framework. And below it the same chart will all of the events involved with the Revelation filled in.

jgr said:

Are you running to and fro?

Has to be on foot; mechanized transport does not have feet to run.

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jgr, running to and fro - is an expression to mean an indication of increase in the means of human movement. Which has come in the form of cars, trains, planes.

Knowledge increased - is an expression to mean that there would be more knowledge throughout the world. Which has come in the form of radios, tv, computers, internet.

Which all the world will able to see the two witnesses dead in the streets of Jerusalem, for example.

Douggg said:

jgr, running to and fro - is an expression to mean an indication of increase in the means of human movement. Which has come in the form of cars, trains, planes.

Knowledge increased - is an expression to mean that there would be more knowledge throughout the world. Which has come in the form of radios, tv, computers, internet.

Which all the world will able to see the two witnesses dead in the streets of Jerusalem, for example.

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What other Scripture confirms your belief that the expression "run to and fro" includes "cars, trains, planes"?

1 Corinthians 1:5
That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;

Knowledge was increasing long before "radios, tv, computers, internet".

Douggg said:

I am speaking about what is in the bible, the end times prophecies.

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That is what I'm referring to.

Douggg said:

I am speaking about what is in the bible

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Douggg said:

Here is my chart of the Ezekiel 39

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Your chart is not "in the Bible" nor is it relevant to the text.

mkgal1 said:

Your chart is not "in the Bible" nor is it relevant to the text.

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My charts are not in the bible, but are relevant to the text, as the applicable text is annotated on both charts.

Oseas said:

To say that "the starting point - 538 B.C - can't possibly be correct" as you said, it is a false interpretation and a statement to mislead the brothers in Christ.
There are no one who can change the facts that the order for reconstruction of the temple was in around 538/535 BC.

There are no one who can change the facts that the order for reconstruction of the temple was in 538/535 BC.

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There was also an order given around 458 BC (recorded in Ezra 7) and that date makes way more sense to fit the context of the prophecy.

69 weeks (years) correspond to 483 years, no one can deny.

That said, 538 BC. or 535 B.C. - 483 years = 55 B.C. or 52 B.C. 100% correct.

The problem is that the biblical Truth does not fit in deceitful or mislead interpretations.

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Are you trying to say that Jesus lived in 55 (or 52) BC or something? I would hope that's not what you're saying.

Do you somehow not understand that the 69 weeks needed to lead up to the appearing of the Messiah, as Daniel 9:25 indicates? Clearly, He didn't appear yet in 55 or 52 BC, so what does that tell you about your interpretation?

Douggg said:

mkgal1, you appear to be trying to convince me that Jesus is the messiah. Everyone here in this forum believes that Jesus is the messiah.

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Well......you've been arguing *against* the orthodox belief that Jesus has already fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. I'm not trying to convince you - that's not really my style - I'm just posting what I believe (which has been and is the historical Christian church's stance).

mkgal1 said:

Well......you've been arguing *against* the orthodox belief that Jesus has already fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. I'm not trying to convince you - that's not really my style - I'm just posting what I believe (which has been and is the historical Christian church's stance).

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My posts are "for" the position that the 70th week has not taken place yet. A position held by countless Christians. My charts are about the 70th week still remaining and in Ezekiel 39.

Douggg said:

My posts are "for" the position that the 70th week has not taken place yet. A position held by countless Christians. My charts are about the 70th week still remaining and in Ezekiel 39.

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Right. That's a heterodox position. That is a position that resembles modern Judaism more than it resembles historic Christianity. Christianity is based on Jesus inaugurating the New Covenant. To argue against that is to argue against Jesus being ancient Israel's fulfilled and promised Messiah - releasing them from exile (of sin/death) as promised. The following is the orthodox position of the Christian Church:

mkgal1 said:

Right. That's a heterodox position. That is a position that resembles modern Judaism more than it resembles historic Christianity.

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When have you ever talked to Jews (Judaism) themselves of how they interpret Daniel 9 ?

I suggest you go to a site like MessiahTruth.com and ask them about the Jewish interpretation of Daniel 9. It has no similarity with the futurist's view. If anything the modern Judaism interpretation is closer to the historist and partial preterist views because they believe the 70 weeks are in the past.

No futurist is arguing against Jesus being the messiah. And being the fulfillment of scriptural prophecies in the Tanach regarding him.

What partial preterists and historists are arguing against is the end times prophecies in the Tanach regarding Jesus.

Douggg said:

When have you ever talked to Jews (Judaism) themselves of how they interpret Daniel 9 ?

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Most modern Jews aren't even aware of the entire books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Isaiah. Their Holy books are revised.They don't use the ancient Hebrew Scriptures (which is the reason I keep repeating how modern Judaism is an entirely separate religion from ancient biblical Judaism).

I have close friends that are Jewish and Muslim.....and we discuss faith and Jesus quite a bit. Ironically.....you would find yourself agreeing with them far more than you agree with me, if all of us were in the same conversation.