Old Mosaic Law Covenant Obsolete!

BobRyan said:

Hi - Thank you for that comment.

Jesus said in Matt 22 that ALL the Law and the Prophets were firmly founded on "Love"

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

"40 Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”" -- i.e. -- all of scripture depends on LOVE and always has.

That was not "new" with Christ - it was ALWAYS with God and Christ -- is ... God.

same is true of the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 that is unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12 -- where the LAW of God is written on heart and mind.



Rom 8:4-12 "the mind set on the flesh does NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN it"

It is not a matter of perfect obedience but not having the right thought - rather it is rebellion vs obedience because there is no such thing as a gospel where the wicked are perfectly obedient to God in some amazing way without being born again and having the Law of God written on the heart.

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Bob, your still trying to serve God by the letter of the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

corinth77777 said:

I am God Almighty ; walk before me and be blameless. ... I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

Gen17
Before the covenant was made Abraham had to walk blameless before the Lord.

But thing is....He did not say if...He commanded......that is interesting.

So you see it is not our work behind what we do, but God is before Abraham who is able to make Him stand.....

Liken to being given the Spirit of Christ to walk by it.

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Genesis 26:5
Because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.

Genesis 21:4
Then Abraham circumcised his son Isaac when he was eight days old, as God had commanded him.

BobRyan said:

Hi - Thank you for that comment.

Jesus said in Matt 22 that ALL the Law and the Prophets were firmly founded on "Love"

"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

"40 Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”" -- i.e. -- all of scripture depends on LOVE and always has.

That was not "new" with Christ - it was ALWAYS with God and Christ -- is ... God.

same is true of the NEW Covenant Jer 31:31-34 that is unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12 -- where the LAW of God is written on heart and mind.



Rom 8:4-12 "the mind set on the flesh does NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN it"

It is not a matter of perfect obedience but not having the right thought - rather it is rebellion vs obedience because there is no such thing as a gospel where the wicked are perfectly obedient to God in some amazing way without being born again and having the Law of God written on the heart.

Click to expand...

I don't think God wrote the law of Moses on our hearts?

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord, I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

What law is God talking about here, i.e., what is that law that is written on their hearts by God?

Romans 5:5
And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

2 Thessalonians 3:5
May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the steadfastness of Christ.

Colossians 2:2
That their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love.

Colossians 3:14
Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

1 Thessalonians 3:12-13
And may the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another, and for all people, just as we also do for you; so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

Ephesians 3:17
So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love.

2 Thessalonians 3:5
May the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the steadfastness of Christ.

1 Timothy 1:5
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

1 Peter 1:22
Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart.

1 John 3:17
But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

BABerean2 said:

Do you obey the Spirit perfectly, unlike Peter did.

.

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"If"the whole Mosaic Law is fullfilled by : Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. And this is a command of Christ under the new Covenent. And you doeth what is commanded
Then are ye not perfect before God the Father?

klutedavid said:

Bob, your still trying to serve God by the letter of the law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Click to expand...

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law are served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin which held him captive. In Romans 7:4-6 were referring to God's law, then that would mean that Paul was speaking against obeying God, that he was speaking against obeying a law that he delighted in obeying, that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to bear fruit for Him, that the way to become unified with Christ is by rejecting what he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example even though those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), that he delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, and that he delighted in being held captive, all of which is completely absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

Soyeong said:

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law are served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin which held him captive.

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Your argument holds true, if and only if, Paul means the Mosaic law within that phrase, 'God's law'. What happens to your argument if Paul implies the Royal Law when he uses that phrase, 'God's law'.

In Romans 7:4-6 were referring to God's law, then that would mean that Paul was speaking against obeying God, that he was speaking against obeying a law that he delighted in obeying, that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to bear fruit for Him, that the way to become unified with Christ is by rejecting what he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example even though those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), that he delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, and that he delighted in being held captive, all of which is completely absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

Click to expand...

No matter how good your argument may appear. Nevertheless, we are no longer bound by the letter of the law.

"so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter"

The letter of the law has been replaced, changed, in the New Covenant. The Spirit is now the guide in all things.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit dominates the Christian life and love is the penultimate gift.

When the priesthood changed so did the law.

Soyeong said:

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's law are served it with his mind, but contrasted that with the law of sin which held him captive. In Romans 7:4-6 were referring to God's law, then that would mean that Paul was speaking against obeying God, that he was speaking against obeying a law that he delighted in obeying, that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to bear fruit for Him, that the way to become unified with Christ is by rejecting what he spent his ministry teaching by word and by example even though those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), that he delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, and that he delighted in being held captive, all of which is completely absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive.

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Like a natural tendency towards sin by the old nature?

klutedavid said:

Your argument holds true, if and only if, Paul means the Mosaic law within that phrase, 'God's law'. What happens to your argument if Paul implies the Royal Law when he uses that phrase, 'God's law'. No matter how good your argument may appear. Nevertheless, we are no longer bound by the letter of the law.

"so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter"

The letter of the law has been replaced, changed, in the New Covenant. The Spirit is now the guide in all things.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit dominates the Christian life and love is the penultimate gift.

When the priesthood changed so did the law.

Click to expand...

While the latter may be true, it is still through the Spirit that the Law is upheld.

in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:4, KJV

Questions
Is the righteous requirement of the law also to be fullfilled in us? Yes

How is it fullfilled in us? Walking after the Spirit


That term fullfilled, thinking outloud, I wonder
If is what is meant by be perfect. Meaning that what we believe and what we do are in agreement. Therefore our conscience before God is clear in our own eyes.


He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.John 14:21

klutedavid said:

Your argument holds true, if and only if, Paul means the Mosaic law within that phrase, 'God's law'. What happens to your argument if Paul implies the Royal Law when he uses that phrase, 'God's law'. No matter how good your argument may appear. Nevertheless, we are no longer bound by the letter of the law.

"so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter"

The letter of the law has been replaced, changed, in the New Covenant. The Spirit is now the guide in all things.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit dominates the Christian life and love is the penultimate gift.

When the priesthood changed so did the law.

Click to expand...

Amen! 2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

corinth77777 said:

While the latter may be true, it is still through the Spirit that the Law is upheld.

in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:4, KJV

Questions
Is the righteous requirement of the law also to be fullfilled in us? Yes

How is it fullfilled in us? Walking after the Spirit


That term fullfilled, thinking outloud, I wonder
If is what is meant by be perfect. Meaning that what we believe and what we do are in agreement. Therefore our conscience before God is clear in our own eyes.


He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.John 14:21

Click to expand...

Which 'commandments' is the author referring to?

John in this first letter did identify two such commandments.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Which commandments? The older letter of the law or the two new commandments.

Danthemailman said:

Amen! 2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

Click to expand...

corinth77777 said:

While the latter may be true, it is still through the Spirit that the Law is upheld.

in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:4, KJV

Questions
Is the righteous requirement of the law also to be fullfilled in us? Yes

How is it fullfilled in us? Walking after the Spirit


That term fullfilled, thinking outloud, I wonder
If is what is meant by be perfect. Meaning that what we believe and what we do are in agreement. Therefore our conscience before God is clear in our own eyes.


He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.John 14:21

Click to expand...

One main thing that come out of this is eternal life that is in His son.

The pieces I have been seeing come together is that Jesus expressed...or is the expressed image of God. So when He did the will of the Father on earth; God the father did the work.

It's interesting to see that they are in agreement. JESUS OBEYED HIS FATHERS COMMANDS; EVEN ONTO DEATH

NOW THIS ADDS UP SOME WHEN HE SAYS I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME..

THAT IS WHY ITS IMPORTANT TO LOVE..
WE EXPRESS THE CHARACTER OF GOD.

WE HAVE CHRIST IN US.....RHE QUESTION IS ARE WE IN CHRIST.

SO ANOTHER WORDS THE SON IS IN US
AND ETERNAL LIFE>VIBRANT ZOE LIFE,
IS IN THE SON. BUT YOU WILL NOT KNOW OF THIS LIFE THAT IS IN HIS SON UNTIL YOU WORK OUT THAT LIFE.

THATS WHY HE SAYS I write these things so that you may know you have life
1 John 5;13


These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The question is what did He write?

corinth77777 said:

One main thing that come out of this is eternal life that is in His son.

The pieces I have been seeing come together is that Jesus expressed...or is the expressed image of God. So when He did the will of the Father on earth; God the father did the work.

It's interesting to see that they are in agreement. JESUS OBEYED HIS FATHERS COMMANDS; EVEN ONTO DEATH

NOW THIS ADDS UP SOME WHEN HE SAYS I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME..

THAT IS WHY ITS IMPORTANT TO LOVE..
WE EXPRESS THE CHARACTER OF GOD.

WE HAVE CHRIST IN US.....RHE QUESTION IS ARE WE IN CHRIST.

SO ANOTHER WORDS THE SON IS IN US
AND ETERNAL LIFE>VIBRANT ZOE LIFE,
IS IN THE SON. BUT YOU WILL NOT KNOW OF THIS LIFE THAT IS IN HIS SON UNTIL YOU WORK OUT THAT LIFE.

THATS WHY HE SAYS I write these things so that you may know you have life
1 John 5;13

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The question is what did He write?

Click to expand...

Believers can know now. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Believers are in Christ. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Romans 5:5 - and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

corinth77777 said:

One main thing that come out of this is eternal life that is in His son.

The pieces I have been seeing come together is that Jesus expressed...or is the expressed image of God. So when He did the will of the Father on earth; God the father did the work.

It's interesting to see that they are in agreement. JESUS OBEYED HIS FATHERS COMMANDS; EVEN ONTO DEATH

NOW THIS ADDS UP SOME WHEN HE SAYS I AM IN THE FATHER AND THE FATHER IS IN ME..

THAT IS WHY ITS IMPORTANT TO LOVE..
WE EXPRESS THE CHARACTER OF GOD.

WE HAVE CHRIST IN US.....RHE QUESTION IS ARE WE IN CHRIST.

SO ANOTHER WORDS THE SON IS IN US
AND ETERNAL LIFE>VIBRANT ZOE LIFE,
IS IN THE SON. BUT YOU WILL NOT KNOW OF THIS LIFE THAT IS IN HIS SON UNTIL YOU WORK OUT THAT LIFE.

THATS WHY HE SAYS I write these things so that you may know you have life
1 John 5;13


These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

The question is what did He write?

Click to expand...

What did God write on our hearts according to Jeremiah 31:33?

The only thing that I can think of that could ever be written on a human heart, would need to be love. I don't think it was the written law of Moses.

klutedavid said:

Which 'commandments' is the author referring to?

John in this first letter did identify two such commandments.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Which commandments? The older letter of the law or the two new commandments.

Click to expand...

We know that the inside[the heart] has to be clean before the deeds to be represented on the outside.

So there are laws after the heart.
If ones heart is clean so will their deeds be.
Jesus nature was like that from the beginning because who He was...so His natural tendency and the expression of it would prove who He was.

It's like this if you walking in Love then you cant be walking in hate.

If you going North that means you cant be going South.
Therefore it's about your new Nature...A new Spirit

klutedavid said:

What did God write on our hearts according to Jeremiah 31:33?

The only thing that I can think of that could ever be written on a human heart, would need to be love. I don't think it was the written law of Moses.

Click to expand...

That is what I would think.....However it could be Moral laws....Let's go back and see what Jeremiah says and context.

klutedavid said:

Which 'commandments' is the author referring to?

John in this first letter did identify two such commandments.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Which commandments? The older letter of the law or the two new commandments.

Click to expand...

To me the main point is that we uphold or fullfill the law by walking by the Spirit.

But here is something to think about How do you know you have lived up to the moral law unless it was first written that you could live up to it?

Danthemailman said:

Believers can know now. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Believers are in Christ. Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Romans 5:5 - and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for the communication...

"To know"....is a relationship
And to have a relationship..meaning How we relate to one another or how we can relate to God......is to please God.
God has a Standard that pleases Him and placed those Standards out there of How we can relate to Him so that we can be around Him.

JESUS FULLFILLS GOD'S STANDARDS
AND WE ARE GIVEN JESUS'S SPIRIT
IN WHOM WE ARE SEALED WITH IN ORDER THAT WE FULLFILL THOSE SAME STANDARDS HE DID...
WE FULLFILL THEM WHEN WE WALK BY THAT SPIRIT THAT WE ARE SEALED WITH.

THIS IS HOW WE OVERCOME THE WORLD WE NOW ARE LIVING IN. FOR IN THE SAME LIGHT THAT JESUS OBEYED THE FATHER AND THE FATHER DID THE WORK. IT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR US.
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.

I believe our faith here is speaking of what we believe and thereby put trust in....

But point here is....is that in that passage it mentions "God" and then it mention "Jesus"
Therefore God has commands that Jesus kept and we keep through the faith...

To me it's about loving God with our whole being...body, soul and Spirit

Another words if the tree is made good its fruit will be. To the end eternal life...[peace and Joy in the holyghost] to know God is life
Real abundant life....that he came...that we may have and have more abundantly. Surely knowing you have that life with you will overcome the world.

corinth77777 said:

To me the main point is that we uphold or fullfill the law by walking by the Spirit.

But here is something to think about How do you know you have lived up to the moral law unless it was first written that you could live up to it?

Click to expand...

I failed the moral law. The law only grants the knowledge of sin and death. You will fail the law long before you achieve any success.

The law I believe was there for Jesus to surpass, to fulfill. Humanity will only fail the demands of the law. What Moses wrote was the most accurate prophecy in the Old Testament.

klutedavid said:

I failed the moral law. The law only grants the knowledge of sin and death. You will fail the law long before you achieve any success.

The law I believe was there for Jesus to surpass, to fulfill. Humanity will only fail the demands of the law. What Moses wrote was the most accurate prophecy in the Old Testament.

Click to expand...

Not according to Romans.
I do not see how you could say that with this passage: in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:4

klutedavid said:

I failed the moral law. The law only grants the knowledge of sin and death. You will fail the law long before you achieve any success.

The law I believe was there for Jesus to surpass, to fulfill. Humanity will only fail the demands of the law. What Moses wrote was the most accurate prophecy in the Old Testament.

Click to expand...

Read the post I wrote to Danthemailman....I thought I was writing to you