Sola Scriptura testing of all doctrine - or accept God's Prophets - but not both?

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You just interpreted it to say the same thing I was noting when I posted it. She thinks any view other than the Adventist view is twisting and Adventists are not to listen to them, even if they bring Scripture. .

You just admitted that she stated Adventists were not to take that position when it comes to serious Bible questions about SDA doctrines from non-SDAs, during evangelism etc. That we must stand "sola scriptura" on all doctrine - no matter what. Just as we do in Sabbath School classes and other venues where Q&A is being done.

You are conflating that issue with the case of established SDA ministers who themselves decide to make a change. I argue they should be allowed to do so as they see fit and join any group they want.

I also agree with Andreason that serious questions should get serious attention - and I pointed you to the ATS - Adventist Theological Society - where that happens all the time. (I am fairly well acquainted with one of the recent presidents of the ATS so I know a thing or two of what I am speaking about)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I also note she is not willing to use the Bible to answer objections to the special points of faith among those who know it best.

That would have been a great "don't use the Bible quote" had you not simply been "quoting you". I am still stuck on "context matters" and all testing of Adventist Doctrine - done by the Bible even during Sabbath School and church. (I view myself as one who knows a thing or two about Adventist doctrine and I still prefer the sola-scriptura testing of all our 28 fundamental beliefs as pretty much everyone I know also does)

But as I have said repeatedly - when it comes to a few SDA ministers that want to make a change to SDA doctrine and do not find that the Denomination wants to accept such edits/changes -- they are perfectly right to find a denomination that does want such a thing. This continues to be one of the fastest (if not the fastest) growing Christian churches in the world according to ChristianityToday so this approach of letting people do as they choose is still apparently working.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Many ministers initially thought it correct, then found questions regarding it due to the Scriptures. .

And they are free to do so - but they should not be surprised that not all SDAs go for the guessing and inference they employ to get to some of their "new" conclusions. So fine - everyone has free will - they can find a group more in line with their own POV and that is perfectly fine.
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
31,979
5,844
Visit site
✟868,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That would have been a great "don't use the Bible quote" had you not simply been "quoting you". I am still stuck on "context matters" and all testing of Adventist Doctrine - done by the Bible even during Sabbath School and church. (I view myself as one who knows a thing or two about Adventist doctrine and I still prefer the sola-scriptura testing of all our 28 fundamental beliefs as pretty much everyone I know also does)

Bob, when someone gives a view of a Bible statement that goes against Ellen White in Sabbath School the discussion is shut down by quoting Ellen White.

And of course, I was not quoting me. I was quoting Ellen White, who did not answer Ballenger with Scripture, and did not want people to listen to his arguments from Scripture.

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

But as I have said repeatedly - when it comes to SDA ministers that want to make a change to SDA doctrine and do not find that the Denomination wants to accept such edits/changes -- they are perfectly right to find a denomination that does want such a thing.

We agree that people who disagree on doctrine should find a church they agree with. And many do.

But that does not remove Ellen White's insistence NOT to entertain Scriptural arguments against the special points of faith.

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

Once you accepted the pillars and joined the church, you must now not question them with Scripture, and no one should listen if you do.


And then when people do raise questions, as Ballenger noted, they are smeared to their family, and to others, to make sure no one listens to the heretics.

That is not testing all things by Scripture.

@RBPerry


 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
10,927
5,591
49
The Wild West
✟461,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
1. No such thing as "Ellen F White" (I am assuming it was typo)
2. It is always "a given" that someone that holds to non-SDA doctrine also finds that Ellen White's comments are in line with SDA doctrine and not non-SDA doctrine. No one is questioning that.

your comment is not applicable because the first test of a prophet is to align with Bible doctrine and as a non-SDA that could never happen until the Bible study on each point was done and one had concluded in favor of the SDA doctrinal statements. You are taking "cart before horse".

So while I do have details missing from your statement below that drastically change the conclusion - it is pointless to go through it given that the starting point does not exist.



So for that reason this thread is simply dealing with the "more general topic" of how it is that "sola scriptura testing" was being done all-the-while having a contemporary prophetic gift active.

Your response appears to be in the "affirmative" that such sola scriptura testing is not blocked at all by having a contemporary prophet alive at the time. Which was the point of the thread.

My point is you cannot have a valid prophet who makes false prophecies. Since Lincoln crushed the rebels, and Great Britain did not invade, this invalidates, according to scriptural standards, the entire prophetic course of Ellen G White.

So too does the continual trend towards the abolition of Blue Laws restricting activities on Sunday, which continue to be weakened and repelled, and there is no evidence in the political ream of anyone wanting to reinstate or strengthen these laws (which I regard as deeply unfortunate; that is an example of an EGW prophecy I hope comes to pass, because right now, we have the travesty of youth sports teams scheduling practice on Sunday mornings, preventing them from attending Church on the Day of the Resurrection, and we also have a very real threat of Muslims becoming the majority in a currently Western country and moving the Holy Days to Thursday and Friday, which would have a seriously bad effect on your church as well as mine; any blue law such as I am calling for would have to include the Sabbath in order to avoid anti-Semitic contexts and ensure the rights of Jews are also protected; I would like to see one elevator in every building with at least four working elevators programmed for Sabbath Mode, where the car stops at every floor). These protections for the Jews would also benefit the SDAs to the extent of prohibiting certain activities that would discourage attendance at SDA services, such as sports practice or entertainments.
 
Upvote 0

PaulCyp1

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 4, 2018
1,075
849
78
Massachusetts
✟239,255.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Jesus told us "By their fruits shall ye know them". So, what has been the fruit of Sola Scriptura? Fragmentation of Protestantism into more than 6,000 denominations in just a few hundred years, the teachings/beliefs of each one contradicting the teachings/beliefs of the others. And that doesn't even include the 20,000+ so-called "non-denominational" Protestant churches. Truth cannot contradict truth, so obviously untruth is rampant in this unbiblical manmade tradition, which exists in direct opposition to the plainly stated will of Jesus Christ concerning His followers, which was and still is "that they all may be one, even as I and My heavenly Father are one".
Meanwhile, the original and true Christian Church, the one Church Jesus founded (which includes well over half of all Christians), remains one in belief, one in teaching, one in worship, one in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, with no conflicting denominations. You just can't beat God's plan.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Jesus told us "By their fruits shall ye know them". So, what has been the fruit of Sola Scriptura? Fragmentation

Mark 7:6-13 Jesus provides a perfect "sola scriptura test of tradition and doctrine" example.

Mark 7:
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”

9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Truth cannot contradict truth

True - hence the "sola scriptura" testing of all teaching and tradition and Christ demonstrated and as we see in Act 17:11, as well as Gal 1:6-9
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
My point is you cannot have a valid prophet who makes false prophecies.

I agree. But the first step is to test and see if that prophet is making statements claimed to have come from God that are in line with scripture or that contradict it.

IF they are not teaching false doctrine - then check and see if they are making unconditional predictions and if those predictions do come true when read in context.

Moses made statements about Israel going into a land flowing with milk and honey - and instead most of them died in the wilderness. But that was not a false prediction of Moses - it was a conditional one.

The same thing happens in the case of Jonah - he makes a statement that in 40 days Nineveh would be destroyed. They repented and it was not destroyed. That was not a false prediction.

Jer 18
7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot it, to tear it down, or to destroy it; 8 if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I planned to bring on it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will relent of the good with which I said that I would bless it.

Since Lincoln crushed the rebels, and Great Britain did not invade, this invalidates, according to scriptural standards, the entire prophetic course of Ellen G White.

Ellen White predicted that the Northern army would win but that God would not allow a swift victory. She also predicted that the United States would become the singular dominant world super power.

So too does the continual trend towards the abolition of Blue Laws restricting activities on Sunday, which continue to be weakened and repelled, and there is no evidence in the political ream of anyone wanting to reinstate or strengthen these laws (which I regard as deeply unfortunate; that is an example of an EGW prophecy I hope comes to pass, because right now, we have the travesty of youth sports teams scheduling practice on Sunday mornings, .

You are missing a lot of information regarding current efforts in Europe and the U.S. and the historic fact of Sunday Laws already in place as well as the history of the Blair Amendment to the Constitution and the fact that in the 1900's challenges regarding the first amendment and Sunday Laws - were upheld by the Supreme court supporting Sunday legislation.

At the time Ellen White was writing there was a huge gap between Protestants in America and the Roman Catholic Church -- but in the 21'st century we live in an age where the Pope addresses the U.S. Congress at the invitation of Congress as well as direct address at the U.N. -- Historic reconciliation not at all a popular idea in the 1800's.
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
My point is you cannot have a valid prophet who makes false prophecies. Since Lincoln crushed the rebels, and Great Britain did not invade, this invalidates, according to scriptural standards, the entire prophetic course of Ellen G White.

So too does the continual trend towards the abolition of Blue Laws restricting activities on Sunday, which continue to be weakened and repelled, and there is no evidence in the political ream of anyone wanting to reinstate or strengthen these laws (which I regard as deeply unfortunate; that is an example of an EGW prophecy I hope comes to pass, because right now, we have the travesty of youth sports teams scheduling practice on Sunday mornings, preventing them from attending Church on the Day of the Resurrection, and we also have a very real threat of Muslims becoming the majority in a currently Western country and moving the Holy Days to Thursday and Friday, which would have a seriously bad effect on your church as well as mine; any blue law such as I am calling for would have to include the Sabbath in order to avoid anti-Semitic contexts and ensure the rights of Jews are also protected; I would like to see one elevator in every building with at least four working elevators programmed for Sabbath Mode, where the car stops at every floor). These protections for the Jews would also benefit the SDAs to the extent of prohibiting certain activities that would discourage attendance at SDA services, such as sports practice or entertainments.


My point is you can not just state someone is a false prophet without the proof. You state the prophecy that she said and then the reasons why it is false. Just saying someone is a false prophet doesn't cut it.
As for Sunday laws being continually repelled---so far---however, the big picture seems to have escaped you
Taking Sunday Seriously — Poland Leads the Way| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)

While President Duda said the law was restoring “normality” to Sunday, the legislation runs counter to the prevailing trend of Western democracies to end trading prohibitions on Sunday. In the United States, restrictions on Sunday shopping — often called “blue laws” or Sunday closing laws — are comprised of more exceptions than rules. Just 18 states restrict auto sales on Sunday. Several others ban hunting or alcohol sales.

Even modest restrictions have ended, to popular acclaim. Indiana ended its ban on Sunday alcohol sales in March, and Minnesota repealed a similar law in 2017.

EU Bishops call for nations to protect work-free Sunday - Vatican News


Of course you would support a National Sunday Law---and one day you will get that opportunity. The Blue laws are in place---they are not being enforced---at the moment. Catholicism is striving for that day and it will come. Mandatory Sunday worship will be the norm, protected by law. In Europe it is getting more and more the norm. You will get your dream one day. A few more disasters and the clergy will be demanding them to be enforced "for our own good." History will repeat itself---Daniel 3 will be repeated---just slightly under different circumstances. It won't be a golden statue, but it will require worshipping when God has not declared Holy---only man.
 
Upvote 0

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
10,927
5,591
49
The Wild West
✟461,572.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
You are missing a lot of information regarding current efforts in Europe and the U.S. and the historic fact of Sunday Laws already in place as well as the history of the Blair Amendment to the Constitution and the fact that in the 1900's challenges regarding the first amendment and Sunday Laws - were upheld by the Supreme court supporting Sunday legislation.

I sincerely hope Sunday laws happen, because the Church needs them, as we can’t have high schools scheduling their sports practice to coincide with our Sunday morning services, but alas, there is no political evidence this will happen. All of the evidence as I have said points to an Islamic hegemony.


Ellen White predicted that the Northern army would win but that God would not allow a swift victory. She also predicted that the United States would become the singular dominant world super power.

What is the date of publication on the book where you read that? Because it is well known that Ellen White did edit prophecies proved wrong in order to make them align with reality. And in her early writings at least, I was disturbed to find she confessed Arianism:

“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.” - Ellen G White

Then we have the issue of her meditative space travel, particularly her trip to Uranus, which she reported as being inhabited by tall, elegant people, when we now know that Uranus is exceedingly uninhabitable.

Also, this takes us to another scriptural problem with Ellen White’s continued influence on Adventist doctrine, that being St. Paul, who did not allow women to teach or have authority over men in the church, which is what Ellen White clearly did and is still doing by virtue of publishing books containing novel doctrines. The Adventist Church, to remain relevant, has to move on and focus on preaching the Gospel as understood by Nicene Trinitarian Protestant churches.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RBPerry

Christian Baby Boomer
Supporter
Oct 14, 2013
798
300
75
Northern California
✟86,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Bob, when someone gives a view of a Bible statement that goes against Ellen White in Sabbath School the discussion is shut down by quoting Ellen White.

And of course, I was not quoting me. I was quoting Ellen White, who did not answer Ballenger with Scripture, and did not want people to listen to his arguments from Scripture.

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}



We agree that people who disagree on doctrine should find a church they agree with. And many do.

But that does not remove Ellen White's insistence NOT to entertain Scriptural arguments against the special points of faith.

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {1SM 161.2}

Once you accepted the pillars and joined the church, you must now not question them with Scripture, and no one should listen if you do.


And then when people do raise questions, as Ballenger noted, they are smeared to their family, and to others, to make sure no one listens to the heretics.

That is not testing all things by Scripture.

@RBPerry

Let me put her opinion in a much simpler manner. She is saying, "if you don't agree with my visions then you shouldn't debate them with scripture that may prove me wrong." This was used against one of my questions and arguments in my senior year at Loma Linda, I had the same feeling then as I do now.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tall73
Upvote 0

RBPerry

Christian Baby Boomer
Supporter
Oct 14, 2013
798
300
75
Northern California
✟86,295.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I sincerely hope Sunday laws happen, because the Church needs them, as we can’t have high schools scheduling their sports practice to coincide with our Sunday morning services, but alas, there is no political evidence this will happen. All of the evidence as I have said points to an Islamic hegemony.




What is the date of publication on the book where you read that? Because it is well known that Ellen White did edit prophecies proved wrong in order to make them align with reality. And in her early writings at least, I was disturbed to find she confessed Arianism:

“The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.” - Ellen G White

Then we have the issue of her meditative space travel, particularly her trip to Uranus, which she reported as being inhabited by tall, elegant people, when we now know that Uranus is exceedingly uninhabitable.

Also, this takes us to another scriptural problem with Ellen White’s continued influence on Adventist doctrine, that being St. Paul, who did not allow women to teach or have authority over men in the church, which is what Ellen White clearly did and is still doing by virtue of publishing books containing novel doctrines. The Adventist Church, to remain relevant, has to move on and focus on preaching the Gospel as understood by Nicene Trinitarian Protestant churches.

Would you like a list of her false prophesies?
 
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Meanwhile, the original and true Christian Church, the one Church Jesus founded (which includes well over half of all Christians), remains one in belief, one in teaching, one in worship, one in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, with no conflicting denominations. You just can't beat God's plan.

Except that the Bible proves Jesus didn’t found any church on Peter, never gave Peter preeminence over the other apostles, and that Peter, the apostle to the Jews, was never part of any church but the Jewish Christian church, the one in Jerusalem, and was therefore never a pope.

Sola scriptura gives us the truth of the matter.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
@RBPerry

Let me put her opinion in a much simpler manner. She is saying, "if you don't agree with my visions then you shouldn't debate them with scripture that may prove me wrong." This was used against one of my questions and arguments in my senior year at Loma Linda, I had the same feeling then as I do now.

How sad - still it is true that every SDA here on this thread and all the others at CF - attend Sabbath School and church each week and does not get the much imagine "never answer a Bible question that an Adventists asks - from the Bible.. just give Bible answers to non-SDAs" - treatment.

In fact it is hard to imagine how someone even comes up with that idea.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
@RBPerry

Let me put her opinion in a much simpler manner. She is saying, "if you don't agree with my visions then you shouldn't debate them with scripture that may prove me wrong."

I am confident that SDAs reading this will not object to "you quoting you" - but still that does not address the OP question for this thread.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I sincerely hope Sunday laws happen, because the Church needs them, as we can’t have high schools scheduling their sports practice to coincide with our Sunday morning services, but alas, there is no political evidence this will happen.

Well then not only are you in for a pleasant surprise but there are still SCOTUS decisions on record in your favor and also Sunday laws still active in some states "stay tuned.. .more to come".
 
Upvote 0

tall73

Sophia7's husband
Supporter
Sep 23, 2005
31,979
5,844
Visit site
✟868,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How sad - still it is true that every SDA here on this thread and all the others at CF - attend Sabbath School and church each week and does not get the much imagine "never answer a Bible question that an Adventists asks - from the Bible.. just give Bible answers to non-SDAs" - treatment.
.

Bob, the issue is when you comment about the Bible and it is not in line with what Ellen White said they quote Ellen White settle to it. I saw it a number of times when people in Sabbath School stated something and others corrected with Ellen White--but only when there were no non-Adventists around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RBPerry
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
BobRyan said:
Ellen White predicted that the Northern army would win but that God would not allow a swift victory. She also predicted that the United States would become the singular dominant world super power.

What is the date of publication on the book where you read that? Because it is well known that Ellen White did edit prophecies proved wrong in order to make them align with reality.

1. At the time Ellen White dies (1915) the United States was not yet a super power and world war 1 would not end for almost 3 more years (and even then the U.S. would not yet be the one world super power) -- were you thinking that she would come back from the grave and "edit" something?

2. As for the part about not allowing too swift a victory for the North - August 26, 1861

And in her early writings at least, I was disturbed to find she confessed Arianism:

She was United Methodist and then SDA - and always was Trinitarian.

The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty.” - Ellen G White

She held to the Phil 2 teaching that while fully God and fully man - Jesus had "emptied himself" and was not appearing on Earth in blazing glory as eternal God -- rather he humbled himself as scripture says.

She stated that Christ had two natures (human and divine) as the Son of God on Earth incarnated as Jesus Christ.

BTW that same quote says this "Who is this that thus announced His purpose of becoming incarnate and visiting a guilty world? {Ms140-1903.18}

We ask Isaiah who He is, and he answers, “Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.” [Isaiah 9:6.] {Ms140-1903.19}
"

Be careful of half-truths on some agenda driven websites prone to deleting context and other key details.

======================
"Desire of Ages" is her commentary on the life of Christ. (DA 663)

“If ye had known Me,” Christ said, “ye should have known My Father also: and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him.” But not yet did the disciples understand. “Lord, show us the Father,” exclaimed Philip, “and it sufficeth us.” {DA 663.4}

Amazed at his dullness of comprehension, Christ asked with pained surprise, “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip?” Is it possible that you do not see the Father in the works He does through Me? Do you not believe that I came to testify of the Father? “How sayest thou then, Show us the Father?” “He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father.” Christ had not ceased to be God when He became man. Though He had humbled Himself to humanity, the Godhead was still His own. Christ alone could represent the Father to humanity, and this representation the disciples had been privileged to behold for over three years. {DA 663.5}

“Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me: or else believe Me for the very works’ sake.” Their faith might safely rest on the evidence given in Christ’s works, works that no man, of himself, ever had done, or ever could do. Christ’s work testified to His divinity. Through Him the Father had been revealed. {DA 664.1}

If the disciples believed this vital connection between the Father and the Son, their faith would not forsake them when they saw Christ’s suffering and death to save a perishing world. Christ was seeking to lead them from their low condition of faith to the experience they might receive if they truly realized what He was,—God in human flesh. He desired them to see that their faith must lead up to God, and be anchored there. How earnestly and perseveringly our compassionate Saviour sought to prepare His disciples for the storm of temptation that was soon to beat upon them. He would have them hid with Him in God. {DA 664.2}


As Christ was speaking these words, the glory of God was shining from His countenance, and all present felt a sacred awe as they listened with rapt attention to His words. Their hearts were more decidedly drawn to Him; and as they were drawn to Christ in greater love, they were drawn to one another. They felt that heaven was very near, and that the words to which they listened were a message to them from their heavenly Father. {DA 664.3}

=============
I don't mind addressing these questions - but my purpose was to discuss the more general topic of what the Bible says about prophets and sola scriptura testing of all doctrine.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Then we have the issue of her meditative space travel, particularly her trip to Uranus, which she reported as being inhabited by tall, elegant people, when we now know that Uranus is exceedingly uninhabitable.

Ellen White never claimed to be a visitor on any planet at all in our solar system. Again the half-truth websites are not as helpful as one might have at first hoped.

She said God had given her a view of a planet some place in the universe but when asked where it was - or if she knew from looking around on it where it was in the Universe - she said she did not know. "Others" then jumped in to insert their opinions on it and she remained silent. Very often the half-truth websites will try to blame a quote on Ellen White that she never said.

But we do find this in 2 Cor 12: 2 "I know a man in Christ, who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows"—

So she did know one thing about that Paul did not know - she knew her body had not been taken to some other place not on planet Earth.

===============================================
Also, this takes us to another scriptural problem with Ellen White’s continued influence on Adventist doctrine, that being St. Paul, who did not allow women to teach .

Paul says clearly that in church each person may have the gift of prophecy and stand and give that revelation. What is more there are women prophets in both OT and NT.

1 Cor 14
1 Cor 14:1 Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, exhortation, and consolation.
...

26 What is the outcome then, brothers and sisters? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. All things are to be done for edification.

29 Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment. 30 But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, then the first one is to keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.


===================================

And while this thread OP is not specifically about Ellen White - it is a fact that there is not a single doctrine in our 28 beliefs that was given to us by Ellen White or that uses a quote from Ellen White to establish the Bible teaching it states.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,118
10,509
Georgia
✟900,262.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Bob, the issue is when you comment about the Bible and it is not in line with what Ellen White said they quote Ellen White settle to it .

I don't doubt that they would use all the information they had on any one specific topic. I also don't doubt that in a Lutheran discussion they would be willing to look at the Bible and something Luther wrote and in other church they might be willing to look at the Bible and also something C.H. Spurgeon or John Calvin, or someone else like Matthew Henry wrote on the topic just to get as much input as they could find on the topic.

If a Lutheran were to say "I think my view of this text is right and I don't care if Luther did not share my view - then another Lutheran might either agree or side with Luther... it can go either way. But in the end each person has freewill. Some Calvinists may not agree with freewill -- but that is what we believe.

However you have already said that if the person you are quoting is a genuine prophet and you actually do accept that the message is from God - then your only real choice (according to scripture) is to listen to God.

What I doubt is the idea that when I go to church and see a Bible question asked -- a bible answer will only be given if the person asking is not an SDA. I have a number of years in attending that sort of open Q&A in Sabbath school and have yet to see that happen or to meet someone in church that said "That is the only thing I ever see happen -- Adventist questions won't be answered from the Bible - only non-SDAs get that sort of answer".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0