What is the Falsification for Abiogenesis and Theory of Evolution?

SelfSim · Apr 21, 2021

Bradskii said:
I didn't know that. I'm going to spend some time investigating it. Part of me is thinking 'surely that can't be right'. I mean, could there effectively be an infinite amount of the starting blocks of life throughout the universe?

I don't think there'd be an infinite amount in our observable universe (which is what they're referring to there).

SelfSim · Apr 21, 2021

Bradskii said:
That's what I was thinking. The whole universe is a can of Primal Soup (no artifical ingredients).

There's another reference Kauffman, (one of the authors), has made, where he calculates that the number of all possible combinations of proteins, having an arbitrary typical length of say, 200 amino acids, is so large, that given the known age of the (observable) universe, the universe cannot possibly have made all these protein combinations just once! (A typical protein is about 300 amino acids in length).

This then leads to the extraordinary conclusion that the universe has only explored a tiny, tiny subset of the possible proteins, of length 200 amino acids!

(I haven't yet looked closely at his math/assumptions in that calculation yet .. but the point he's making with it, underwrites a major part of his life's work in molecular evolution and a 'non-ergodic' universe).

ETA:
'Ergodic' there means that the system in question visits all its possible states. ... Ergodic systems have no deep sense of 'history'.
Non-ergodic systems however, do not visit all of their possible states.

Bradskii · Apr 21, 2021

SelfSim said:
I don't think there'd be an infinite amount in our observable universe (which is what they're referring to there).

Ah, yeah. Agreed. But there'd be an amount relative to the size of the actual universe. So an infinite universe means an infinite amount.

But then again, an infinite universe guarantees life in any case.

Bradskii · Apr 21, 2021

SelfSim said:
There's another reference Kauffman, (one of the authors), has made, where he calculates that the number of all possible combinations of proteins, having an arbitrary typical length of say, 200 amino acids, is so large, that given the known age of the universe, the universe cannot possibly have made all these protein combinations just once! (A typical protein is about 300 amino acids in length).

This then leads to the extraordinary conclusion that the universe has only explored a tiny, tiny subset of the possible proteins, of length 200 amino acids!

(I haven't yet looked closely at his math/assumptions in that calculation yet .. but the point he's making with it, underwrites a major part of his life's work in molecular evolution).

But that discounts any evolutionary process. What's the chance of a length of two amino acids forming? Surely a distinct possibility. So if we have two and it is an advangage,then what's the chances of it expanding to three? Rinse, repeat.

SelfSim · Apr 21, 2021

Bradskii said:
But that discounts any evolutionary process.

What he then argues, is that that enormous space of possible protein combinations, (length 200 aminos), leaves available a huge space for evolution to 'explore'.

Bradskii said:
What's the chance of a length of two amino acids forming? Surely a distinct possibility. So if we have two and it is an advangage,then what's the chances of it expanding to three? Rinse, repeat.

Yes .. its chances of growing to two, are also non-zero .. so it does .. and then it, and the first one, can also become piece-parts of what follows .. The (math) function you're describing there, actually asymptotes to infinity in a finite (but huge) amount of time .. which includes some assumptions about the behaviors of the compounds involved .. some of which have already been tested .. some haven't .. (I think).

Lion IRC · Apr 21, 2021

Speedwell said:
It is quite a common creationist belief. When do you think the Flood happened?

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life.
On the seventeenth day of the second month.
...to be precise.

VirOptimus · Apr 21, 2021

Lion IRC said:
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life.
On the seventeenth day of the second month.
...to be precise.

You belive someone lived over 600 years?

You have a very modern, narrow understanding of truth.

AV1611VET · Apr 21, 2021

VirOptimus said:
You belive someone lived over 600 years?

Genesis 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

Mr Laurier · Apr 21, 2021

Lion IRC said:
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life.
On the seventeenth day of the second month.
...to be precise.

Ok. So when was that?
Give a date we can pinpoint in a calendar.

Speedwell · Apr 21, 2021

Mr Laurier said:
Ok. So when was that?
Give a date we can pinpoint in a calendar.

Sometime in the mid third millennium BC, or about 4500 years ago.

Kylie · Apr 21, 2021

SelfSim said:
..?

I misunderstood your post, replied to it, then realised my error and removed it, since it was no longer relevant.

Kylie · Apr 21, 2021

renniks said:
You are just wrong. But believe what you like.

What defining biological features of Apes do Humans lack?

Kylie · Apr 21, 2021

Lion IRC said:
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life.
On the seventeenth day of the second month.
...to be precise.

That's rather meaningless without a frame of reference to today, isn't it?

AV1611VET · Apr 21, 2021

Kylie said:
What defining biological features of Apes do Humans lack?

Strength. Hair. Reading and writing skills. Limited domiciles.

Lion IRC · Apr 21, 2021

VirOptimus said:
You belive someone lived over 600 years?

Sure. Why not?
Non-smoker.
Healthy active lifestyle.
No artificial preservatives and colouring and nitrates and hormones in his diet. Lots of berries, dark leafy green vegetables, legumes, seeds, nuts, garlic, olive oil...antioxidants.
No fossil fuel pollution. (Smog) No plastic packaging Bisphenol A.
No mobile phone towers, high voltage power lines.
Much more pure atmosphere and less UV radiation....

What do you think he died of? You know we don't die of "old age" right?

You have a very modern, narrow understanding of truth.

You haven't justified your scepticism. Come on! Show me the science which makes that longevity impossible.

How science is on a mission to extend the human lifespan – to 1,000?

"Can we live to be 1,000 years old? How science is on a mission to slow ageing and extend the human lifespan. Along with academic research departments around the world, private sector medical technology companies are getting in on the action, seeking ways to increase longevity and health span."

Lion IRC · Apr 21, 2021

Kylie said:
That's rather meaningless without a frame of reference to today, isn't it?

Trust me.
You do NOT want to debate the Noachian Flood with me.
I've done heaps of Flood apologetics debates. They always end in tears.

Speedwell · Apr 21, 2021

Lion IRC said:
Trust me.
You do NOT want to debate the Noachian Flood with me.
I've done heaps of Flood apologetics debates. They always end in tears.

Ooooh, a threat! What fun. And boasting, too. You really are a Christian.

Mr Laurier · Apr 21, 2021

Speedwell said:
Sometime in the mid third millennium BC, or about 4500 years ago.

So somewhere in the Old Kingdom period. When a strong and united Egypt was building HUGE pyramids all over the place. And sending trade expeditions to Nubia, Palestine, and Crete. And documenting everything that took place.

Lion IRC · Apr 21, 2021

Speedwell said:
Ooooh, a threat! What fun. And boasting, too. You really are a Christian.

There's no "threat".
Nor is there a boast.
Im telling you, they always end in tears.

Mr Laurier · Apr 21, 2021

Lion IRC said:
Trust me.
You do NOT want to debate the Noachian Flood with me.
I've done heaps of Flood apologetics debates. They always end in tears.

So you can tell me what year your "Noachian Flood" took place in... yes?
A year please.

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