Stanford study: Masks useless for Covid

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Pommer

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No, I got a video I watched that was viral and I recalled it, and searched for it but it had gotten banned for criticizing the CDC, I found it again and grabbed the first site I saw and sent it to Aldebaran (between us two) but she ended up posting it (I did not). If I did I would have linked to the platform BIT....CHUTE but CF 's censors won't allow it over a technicality (as Alderan pointed out) and censors my ability to post from that platform. It does this because of website's NAME since its spelled B..I..T...C..H...(UTE) see it?

You're not paying attention.
“Why do you wish to disseminate questionable videos?”, would be my query.
 
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Aldebaran

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“Why do you wish to disseminate questionable videos?”, would be my query.

Did you actually watch the video in question?
 
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Gene2memE

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Wow, a for-real “free speech” site?
I got a month long trip to camp cupcake for linking to rationalwiki, this might set you back months?

HFS!

I just looked at that website. It ticks all the neo-nazi/white supremacist boxes, doesn't it?

Front page alone:

Hitler was right and he was fighting the Judeo-Soviet combine and nearly won
Jews did 9/11
Aboriginal Jews are committing bioterrorism
BLM are terrorist
The Gay Frogs thing was real
Various 'Sons of Odin'/Aryan superiority articles
Holocaust denial
White replacement/genocide
 
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Aldebaran

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You don't know what herd immunity is, we're not even certain what that number is: some people cannot get it even if they wanted to, but resistance to the vaccine has become this political nonsense that doesn't help anything except those who profit from the idiocy of the common people in one form or another by fleecing them for something that they claim is better with no real evidence behind it

Just going by what Tony Fauci says, and you better not argue against what he says. He's one of those people who knows everything.

Ah, victim blaming, that tactic never changes from those who apparently don't really care about anyone else except as they can benefit them.

Then quit doing it. I'm not forcing you to do it.

Funny how that mortality rate has gone up, isn't it?

A testament to the vaccine's effectiveness.
 
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Aldebaran

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HFS!

I just looked at that website. It ticks all the neo-nazi/white supremacist boxes, doesn't it?

Front page alone:

Hitler was right and he was fighting the Judeo-Soviet combine and nearly won
Jews did 9/11
Aboriginal Jews are committing bioterrorism
BLM are terrorist
The Gay Frogs thing was real
Various 'Sons of Odin'/Aryan superiority articles
Holocaust denial
White replacement/genocide

Maybe now we won't hear people that simply don't agree with BLM terrorist tactics being called white supremacists anymore. Some people like to throw that terminology around so much that it loses all meaning until the real deal shows up.
 
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muichimotsu

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It's starting to look a little like that, isn't it?
Only if this was targeted, it's not, there are systemic reasons why black people are either resistant to or having difficulty getting access to the vaccine. That you would try to remotely compare this to that is unconscionably disingenuous and heartless to boot. Oh and can we say hyperbolic?
 
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muichimotsu

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Just going by what Tony Fauci says, and you better not argue against what he says. He's one of those people who knows everything.

Nice strawman, that's not what anyone is saying, he can be wrong, science is a willingness to acknowledge that, especially with a novel strain.


Then quit doing it. I'm not forcing you to do it.
Is that all you can do is just keep deflecting back onto me and acting like you're the victim here? I didn't claim you were, I said you're being toxic in your attitude



A testament to the vaccine's effectiveness.
You don't appear to recognize that 1) treatments are what decrease the mortality rate, not vaccinations, which are still in early stage for many 1st world countries as to achieving anything resembling herd immunity and 2) that the vaccine is meant to create immunity, not merely a resistance factor that can prevent death, not to mention I'd hazard 60% of American population still isn't vaccinated, or at least 50%, the death rate going down doesn't mean we get to act like things should just go back to how they were, that's naive.
 
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muichimotsu

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The real issue people have is that these particular vaccines were rushed into development and production, and released for "Emergency Use", which is not very comforting when we consider that most drugs take much longer to be released to the public, and many of them still end up being recalled, and then the lawsuits come.
So much more likely for that to happen with an Emergency Use drug. Can't blame people for wanting to take a wait-and-see approach rather than be an early adopter.

No, because this isn't like other vaccines that would've required more testing. Don't act like this is some kind of guinea pig situation, we've studied mRNA vaccines for nearly a generation, far as I'm aware, this isn't some new thing, much as you want to stoke fear and paranoia to make yourself feel more sound in this delusion

Also, you're trying this rhetoric that the cure is somehow worse than the disease when the only reason there's been any reasonable control is because of people actually following guidelines instead of thinking they're experts (*coughhypocritecough*). And we're at over 550K, that's only small in proportion to the 3M worldwide total, which is nothing to downplay unless you're a heartless monster that cares more about expediting normalcy and not about being efficient as to the reopening efforts. Throwing caution to the wind only works if you care less about facts and more about faith.

We've had this vaccine out for easily several months, this isn't something you wait years to take when this pandemic has pushed us mentally beyond what is necessary, in no small part because of your ilk that fancies themselves "wise" when they show the complete opposite with the idea that they're actually being anything resembling skeptical instead of just credulous and contrarian.

If you care more about your own security than the safety of the country, then you've already shown how little empathy and compassion you have for other people beyond how you can paint yourself as a martyr and get clout.
 
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Occams Barber

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HFS!

I just looked at that website. It ticks all the neo-nazi/white supremacist boxes, doesn't it?

Front page alone:

Hitler was right and he was fighting the Judeo-Soviet combine and nearly won
Jews did 9/11
Aboriginal Jews are committing bioterrorism
BLM are terrorist
The Gay Frogs thing was real
Various 'Sons of Odin'/Aryan superiority articles
Holocaust denial
White replacement/genocide


Once you've finished checking the site out (and it really is disgusting) can I recommend flushing your PC out with an industrial strength disinfectant to prevent anything dark and slimy growing overnight?

OB
 
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High Fidelity

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It's also painful to witness how little thought actually goes into proving the efficacy of masks. This is a 2 way street.

Next time you have surgery, why don't you ask the surgeon and surgical staff to leave their masks off.
 
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Gene2memE

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Maybe now we won't hear people that simply don't agree with BLM terrorist tactics being called white supremacists anymore. Some people like to throw that terminology around so much that it loses all meaning until the real deal shows up.

Wha?

Total non sequitur.

Given the content of the front page alone of that site, would you classify it as espousing white supremacist doctrines and sentiments?

Because I would.

Part of that (at the moment) is classifying anyone involved in BLM or aligned movements as a 'terrorist'. Which would be as silly as branding all Protestants and Catholics as 'terrorists' due to the actions in Northern Ireland over the past few weeks.
 
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muichimotsu

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Next time you have surgery, why don't you ask the surgeon and surgical staff to leave their masks off.
I'd bet the general mask dissenters who want to cite this study don't even understand the most basic of scientific principles: replicability. Anyone can pull a study that seems convincing if you fudge the numbers or methodology, that doesn't mean it reflects reality AT ALL
 
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hedrick

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Here’s a reasonable review of evidence on masks. The Evolving Science of Face Masks and COVID-19 - FactCheck.org There is some evidence that they have an effect. But there are competent epidemiologists who don’t find it convincing. The safest conclusion seems to be that in situations with Rt near 1, as seems common in the US now, it is a good idea. But you shouldn’t expect much help in situations like last Spring, with Rt more like 5.

The CDC seems to be suggesting that it’s not worth it outside, except in crowded situations. In fact the governor of NJ (whwere I live) said that from the beginning.

The following review comes to more positive conclusions.
An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 - PubMed But remember that there are also reviews that find no effect.
 
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Hammster

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sfs

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The CDC seems to be suggesting that it’s not worth it outside, except in crowded situations. In fact the governor of NJ (whwere I live) said that from the beginning.
I plan to quit wearing one outside once my governor says I can.
The following review comes to more positive conclusions.
An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19 - PubMed But remember that there are also reviews that find no effect.
See this review: DEFINE_ME and this one: Face Mask Use in the Community for Reducing the Spread of COVID-19: A Systematic Review
My impression is that the strongest evidence comes from epidemiological studies. RCTs are typically underpowered and hard to perform.
 
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hedrick

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I plan to quit wearing one outside once my governor says I can.
NJ requires it
  • “in outdoor public spaces when social distancing is not possible;
  • in indoor spaces open to the public, including retail, recreational, and entertainment businesses, government buildings open to the public, and on public transportation; and
  • in indoor commercial spaces closed to the public, including office buildings, when individuals are in prolonged proximity to others.”
Here’s your rule

“Governor Baker issued an Order effective November 6, 2020 requiring face masks or cloth face coverings in all public places, whether indoors or outdoors, even where they are able to maintain 6 feet of distance from others. Masks or face coverings are encouraged but not required for children between the ages of 2 and 5. Read the full DPH Guidance and Frequently Asked Questions.”

NJ policies throughout have tended to be softer than some other places in the Northeast.
 
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Dkh587

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Again, this is not the point and it beggars credulity that you do not know this!

What I (and a number of atheists, I might add) are saying is this: you have a moral obligation to act in the interests of others and get vaccinated. Nobody should force you, but that doesn't mean you do not have such an obligation.
Speak for yourself.

Nobody has an obligation to do anything just because *you* think they should.

If you wanna vaccinate yourself, go ahead, but you are being self centered and self righteous trying to impose moral obligations on other people, especially if they don’t agree with you.
 
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Dkh587

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I'll get the second shot in May, what's your point? The science is there, you're trying to be contrarian and act like you're an expert, when I never claimed expertise, you just haven't proven the contrary that you have a burden of proof to support that vaccines somehow don't work or otherwise go against over 50 years of study, if not nearly a century since we've used even the earliest forms of vaccines.
If you’re vaccinated, you need to mind your business since you are protected.

Everybody’s medical decisions are a private choice - if you wanna parade around that you got vaccinated, that’s your prerogative, but it’s absolutely none of your business whether anybody else gets vaccinated.
 
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sfs

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Nobody has an obligation to do anything just because *you* think they should.
Failing to be vaccinated may well kill someone. How does that not impose a moral obligation?
 
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