Creationism/Evolution

Cis.jd

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If you mean my red text, I added that to try and figure out how much more exact the author would have to be for you to be satisfied with it.

On post #242 you said

So I added an exact duration (just an example no one was saying it's scripture) , and asked if the author had been exact like that/similar to that, would you have been satisfied? You said no.
Which means If the author had given less or more information your view would not change, which I suspected but I was trying to be sure.

This post makes no sense, and the same time it would still make no sense for you to ask that question on #255.

Anyway, I gave a big answer to that by mirroring your logic on the last paragraph on my post on #254, and you did not answer that. I think the reason why you didn't answer it is because you'll admit something that you don't want too.

Now, are we done with your theoretical Genesis example or are we going to go back to the real Genesis in where I can get an explanation as to how long the duration of the days where?
 
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coffee4u

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I think the Bible is quite clear. Both Genesis and Exodus.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

You are the one who said the author needed to add an 'exact duration'

You ask how "plainer"? By giving an exact duration as to how long those days were.
 
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Cis.jd

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I think the Bible is quite clear. Both Genesis and Exodus.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
It's not clear because look at all the points you've ignored in regards to how long the days where and much more. You and jack are showing that you only have an attachment to what you want to believe but not about what the Bible really says.

You are the one who said the author needed to add an 'exact duration'
exactly, but it does not give a duration so you can not insist a 24 hour day because God doesn't work on our time. I think deep down you know how you really have no argument to present, this is all you trying to keep self-validation rather than speaking of god's word.
 
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coffee4u

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It's not clear because look at all the points you've ignored in regards to how long the days where and much more.


Can you show me what scripture I ignored in regards to how long the days where?

You and jack are showing that you only have an attachment to what you want to believe but not about what the Bible really says.

Again, if you have scripture to share that sheds a different light, please do.

exactly, but it does not give a duration so you can not insist a 24 hour day because God doesn't work on our time. I think deep down you know how you really have no argument to present, this is all you trying to keep self-validation rather than speaking of god's word.

I read Genesis as literal history and I do not believe God plays word games.

Each day is clearly marked by evening and morning and each day is counted off.
Exodus says that God created in 6 days in 2 places, Exodus 20:11 and again in Exodus 31:17 and that he made the seventh for the Sabbath.
These 7 days are the structure for our week.

To me this is plenty enough plain scripture that creation took 6 days upon the earth.
That is what God's word says.
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them
I see no reason to take that any other way then exactly as it is written. If God took 6 billion years than he can tell me he took 6 billion years and until he does, I will accept his word that says 6 days is 6 days.


You are the one who wants to say each day is really million of years, what scripture indicates that?
 
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Cis.jd

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Can you show me what scripture I ignored in regards to how long the days where?
Again, if you have scripture to share that sheds a different light, please do.
This is another inaccurate reference to what was being asked in challenge to you.

I asked you where in the Bible does it tell you a day is 24 hours, and you return that by asking this question? Are you changing my challenges to you intentionally or are you really having diffiulty understanding?

Each day is clearly marked by evening and morning and each day is counted off.
but again, how long is that?

Exodus says that God created in 6 days in 2 places, Exodus 20:11 and again in Exodus 31:17 and that he made the seventh for the Sabbath. These 7 days are the structure for our week.
This was already dealt with in #235 and you did not even respond to the question given.

If God took 6 billion years than he can tell me he took 6 billion years and until he does, I will accept his word that says 6 days is 6 days.
You are the one who wants to say each day is really million of years, what scripture indicates that?

But God never said in the Bible as to how long he made the universe exactly, you just assume it's around 6,000 years. He never said he made a day to be 24 hours yet you believe it anyway. You also commit the same thing you put on this quote.

You shouldn't be labeling your views as "God's Word", It is better to just to accept that there is more to the scriptures that you need to learn. There is nothing wrong with that. Deluding yourself that you are still aligned to God's Word is just self-validation now. How is anyone going to believe God's word when it is being represented by such uneducated theology?
 
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JacksBratt

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it does not give a duration so you can not insist a 24 hour day because God doesn't work on our time.
So, you are saying that while God was designing the universe for us.. He worked in a "day" that was much longer.. but then.. at the end.. well after the 5th day because Adam was made on the 6th and would have known.... at the end God slowed everything down and just said it was six days? Five really long days and two shorter days?

Why on earth would God have to do that. He is perfectly capable and powerful enough to do it just like He told us.

Again.. He said He did it.. He could do it... So.. I believe that He did it just like He said.
 
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coffee4u

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This is another inaccurate reference to what was being asked in challenge to you.

I asked you where in the Bible does it tell you a day is 24 hours, and you return that by asking this question? Are you changing my challenges to you intentionally or are you really having diffiulty understanding?

I already showed you the Bible verses that say 6 days.

Here they are again:
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


That is God's word.

You are the one claiming that evening and morning followed by a numbered day does not mean a day, you are the one that needs to prove that they mean something other than what is being said.

Ask a child to read Genesis and ask them how long did creation take. You will find them saying 6 days. Why? Because the plain reading of scripture is 6 days.
If you think this makes me a child, so be it.
Matthew 18:3
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

I am quite happy to be a child.
 
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JacksBratt

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I already showed you the Bible verses that say 6 days.

Here they are again:
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


That is God's word.

You are the one claiming that evening and morning followed by a numbered day does not mean a day, you are the one that needs to prove that they mean something other than what is being said.

Ask a child to read Genesis and ask them how long did creation take. You will find them saying 6 days. Why? Because the plain reading of scripture is 6 days.
If you think this makes me a child, so be it.
Matthew 18:3
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

I am quite happy to be a child.
I agree. A child can read it and understand it.

The bible was written so that it is not complicated.
 
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Cis.jd

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I already showed you the Bible verses that say 6 days.

Here they are again:
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


That is God's word.

You are the one claiming that evening and morning followed by a numbered day does not mean a day, you are the one that needs to prove that they mean something other than what is being said.

Ask a child to read Genesis and ask them how long did creation take. You will find them saying 6 days. Why? Because the plain reading of scripture is 6 days.
If you think this makes me a child, so be it.
Matthew 18:3
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

I am quite happy to be a child.

LOL are you trying to pull a slick one? I provided my proof, and you could not answer in context to it. My proof is understood by just this question: But how long are these days?
Look at how you and jack are trying to alter everything I discussed with you, so you can have something to respond with because you can't battle my actual points. So the best thing you can do is try to invent or misrepresent my side so you are posting the same thing over and over, pretending the answers given about this never happened, because you want to feel that you where not debunked.

Yes, A child would read Genesis and interpret it as literal 6 days..
because a child is not yet educated yet! However once he/she passes elementary, views like yours will cause this child to question Genesis, and will leave Christianity based on the explanation given to him.
 
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Cis.jd

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So, you are saying that while God was designing the universe for us.. He worked in a "day" that was much longer.. but then.. at the end.. well after the 5th day because Adam was made on the 6th and would have known.... at the end God slowed everything down and just said it was six days? Five really long days and two shorter days?

Why on earth would God have to do that. He is perfectly capable and powerful enough to do it just like He told us.

Again.. He said He did it.. He could do it... So.. I believe that He did it just like He said.

what? I'm saying there is no indication how long the day is, and since days are different to other people and also inexistent outside of the earth, then how are you able to make 6 literal days for God?

This whole paragraph is an inaccurate representation of anything I said. I hope you are not misrepresenting what i've said intentionally just so you can have an answer. It's either you are doing that, or you just don't under what you are reading.
 
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JacksBratt

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what? I'm saying there is no indication how long the day is, and since days are different to other people and also inexistent outside of the earth, then how are you able to make 6 literal days for God?

This whole paragraph is an inaccurate representation of anything I said. I hope you are not misrepresenting what i've said intentionally just so you can have an answer. It's either you are doing that, or you just don't under what you are reading.
A day is the same to all who live in this dimension.. Even someone is space knows the time span of a day.. Independent of a moon or sun or sunrise and sunset.

God is permanently free of any time constraint. Jesus was too until He was born as a human.. Only man and the universe that God created are limited to the physical constraint of time.

God made the universe and He gave the physical laws under which it is governed.

If I misunderstood what you said, I apologize.. however, we still disagree with the entire concept that God created the time frame that we call a day... then... He created the sun, moon and stars as a method for which we could measure it.

The days that He speaks of in Genesis... is the same day that I live through today.
 
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Cis.jd

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A day is the same to all who live in this dimension.. Even someone is space knows the time span of a day.. Independent of a moon or sun or sunrise and sunset.

God is permanently free of any time constraint. Jesus was too until He was born as a human.. Only man and the universe that God created are limited to the physical constraint of time.

God made the universe and He gave the physical laws under which it is governed.

If I misunderstood what you said, I apologize.. however, we still disagree with the entire concept that God created the time frame that we call a day... then... He created the sun, moon and stars as a method for which we could measure it.

The days that He speaks of in Genesis... is the same day that I live through today.

As you said he created sun, moon, as a method of measure.. right! But here is the thing, what if you are in outerspace? What about the other planets: Mercury's day is 58 days long when we count in on Earth's time, how does this work in a literal 6 days? Remember Alaska, their day comes in after 1608 hours, then you have the people of Moses' time who understood a day to be 12 hours. Whose days in this "dimension" is Genesis talking about?

I think you understand what I am saying here, you just do not want to accept it. The 6 day literal creation is a man made teaching, not a teaching of God and 2nd Peter 3:8 is clear about it.
 
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JacksBratt

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As you said he created sun, moon, as a method of measure.. right! But here is the thing, what if you are in outerspace? What about the other planets: Mercury's day is 58 days long when we count in on Earth's time, how does this work in a literal 6 days? Remember Alaska, their day comes in after 1608 hours, then you have the people of Moses' time who understood a day to be 12 hours. Whose days in this "dimension" is Genesis talking about?

I think you understand what I am saying here, you just do not want to accept it. The 6 day literal creation is a man made teaching, not a teaching of God and 2nd Peter 3:8 is clear about it.
None of that matters.. What if this, what about that... God made a day a day.. He told us that He created the universe in six of these days. On the 4th day He created the sun and moon as clocks for us. Mercury is not something that people look at and judge seasons and or time.

Day is not based on being in space. It's not based on the number of hours of sunlight.. It is based on God's "day" that He set as a time span. We divided it up into 24 increments.. called hours.
 
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Cis.jd

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None of that matters.. What if this, what about that... God made a day a day.. He told us that He created the universe in six of these days. On the 4th day He created the sun and moon as clocks for us. Mercury is not something that people look at and judge seasons and or time.

Day is not based on being in space. It's not based on the number of hours of sunlight.. It is based on God's "day" that He set as a time span. We divided it up into 24 increments.. called hours.

Of course it matters. If you are going to insist that the 6 days are literal, you are held to the obligation to show and explain the duration of these days.

The rest in your 2 paragraphs is completely useless to everything I asked of you and it looks like you are making stuff up. Mercury is still part of the universe, so how does that work in the 6 day creation. Where did you get this part that "we divided it to 24 increments" from, you where told they only knew time as 12 hours? You are making up your own information to defend this 6 day teaching, that shows well enough how man-made this is.
 
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JacksBratt

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Of course it matters. If you are going to insist that the 6 days are literal, you are held to the obligation to show and explain the duration of these days.

The rest in your 2 paragraphs is completely useless to everything I asked of you and it looks like you are making stuff up. Mercury is still part of the universe, so how does that work in the 6 day creation. Where did you get this part that "we divided it to 24 increments" from, you where told they only knew time as 12 hours? You are making up your own information to defend this 6 day teaching, that shows well enough how man-made this is.
The very first day was exactly the same length of time as yesterday and today and tomorrow.

God made it that length of time. On the fourth day He created the sun, moon and stars so that man could have a clock to measure it.

There is no reason to believe that the length of day has ever been any different.

Take away the sun.. still a day.. Take away the moon... still a day. Go to Mars.. still a day. Go to the moon.. still a day.
 
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Cis.jd

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The very first day was exactly the same length of time as yesterday and today and tomorrow.

God made it that length of time. On the fourth day He created the sun, moon and stars so that man could have a clock to measure it.

There is no reason to believe that the length of day has ever been any different.

Take away the sun.. still a day.. Take away the moon... still a day. Go to Mars.. still a day. Go to the moon.. still a day.

You are ignoring all these points given to you as to how a day is not the same to everyone, and you are making up information here. A day in Mercury is 57 days long to us so how does this "a day is a day" work?
 
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coffee4u

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LOL are you trying to pull a slick one? I provided my proof,

What proof? I asked you for scripture to prove the days were some long stretches of time, you have shown none.

and you could not answer in context to it. My proof is understood by just this question: But how long are these days?

How long is a day where you live? Here a day is 24 hours.

Look at how you and jack are trying to alter everything I discussed with you, so you can have something to respond with because you can't battle my actual points.

What points?
All I have seen you say is that when scripture says day, it doesn't mean day.
I asked for scripture to back up your position and you have given none.

So the best thing you can do is try to invent or misrepresent my side so you are posting the same thing over and over, pretending the answers given about this never happened, because you want to feel that you where not debunked.

All I have from you is that you believe those day are not days but some long stretches of time. Correct or not?

I asked what scripture you use to back up that position. You have given none.

Yes, A child would read Genesis and interpret it as literal 6 days..
because a child is not yet educated yet! However once he/she passes elementary, views like yours will cause this child to question Genesis, and will leave Christianity based on the explanation given to him.

A child is reading Genesis purely, without trying to change it. Which is what I try to do when I read it.
Educated into what? Educated into what science thinks it knows? Why do you think science is correct? Has it ever crossed your mind that they are completely wrong?

If you believe science has it right then you are welcome to it, but I don't believe they know even half of what they think they know. They make a lot of assumptions based on what they can see and test now, but this isn't the world that God created, that world is gone. All they have to test is this groaning world. Why would you think this groaning world would tell you about the world at creation?
 
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Cis.jd

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What proof? I asked you for scripture to prove the days were some long stretches of time, you have shown none.

2 Peter 3:8 - I've said this numerous times! Nice try, but stop running.. Either show where you can find the Bible saying a day is 24 hours long, otherwise I am going to stop replying to you because you have been refuted and you are trying to validate your feelings on your beliefs.

How long is a day where you live? Here a day is 24 hours.
EST or PCT?

A child is reading Genesis purely, without trying to change it. Which is what I try to do when I read it. Educated into what? Educated into what science thinks it knows? Why do you think science is correct? Has it ever crossed your mind that they are completely wrong?
You have to be educated when dealing with scripture because you have to show others why our God is true compared to all other beliefs out there. If Christians start to promote things that are factual wrong and visibly unintelligent, then the reason why his gospel gets rejected is on us (or you).

Also, You believe each of the 6 days to be 24 hours, you believe the moon reflects light, these are taught by science. So what if some kid comes to you and tells you that 12am isn't the start of the new day because the sun hasn't rose yet, or the moon gives it's own light, and that snakes eat dirt.. how are you going to tell him he/she is wrong?
 
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coffee4u

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2 Peter 3:8 - I've said this numerous times! Nice try, but stop running.. Either show where you can find the Bible saying a day is 24 hours long, otherwise I am going to stop replying to you because you have been refuted and you are trying to validate your feelings on your beliefs.

That has nothing to do with Genesis. 2 peter is referring to God being outside of time. To him a day is the same as a thousand years and a thousand years is the same as a day.
Just because God is himself outside of time, the creation is not.
The creation is inside of time.

You can believe whatever you like, as I have said many times but I believe the plain text. When it says God created in 6 days I take him at his word. That is all there is to it, nothing to do with my feelings. The Genesis text gives no reason to think that day means anything other than day.

EST or PCT?
It doesn't matter where you live, a day is 24 hours.

You have to be educated when dealing with scripture because you have to show others why our God is true compared to all other beliefs out there. If Christians start to promote things that are factual wrong and visibly unintelligent, then the reason why his gospel gets rejected is on us (or you).

You think it's unintelligent because it goes against what science says. Why do you assume they are correct? God says the wisdom of man is foolishness. Science can only test what it has and it does not have the created world, nor was anyone there to see the process nor can anyone test or understand how God is outside of time yet created a world inside of time, who knows how that could have bent and changed things. These are things we can never know and no testing the groaning world will give them these answers. All we can know is that God said 6 days passed on the earth during creation and that is what I will believe.

The Bible says that there was no death before sin. Sin caused death.
Evolution holds to millions of years and death for millions of years. They do not in any way fit together.

Also, You believe each of the 6 days to be 24 hours, you believe the moon reflects light, these are taught by science. So what if some kid comes to you and tells you that 12am isn't the start of the new day because the sun hasn't rose yet, or the moon gives it's own light, and that snakes eat dirt.. how are you going to tell him he/she is wrong?

I believe that if it could have been watched by a man upon the earth, that he would have seen each day was 24 hours and that it took 6 days in total to complete.
How that looked beyond the earth could be anything, it could have been infinity or instantly. I don't pretend to know how God being outside of time alters things away from the actual physical earth. God is not bound by time but we are and since we are we cannot understand what outside of time even means.

The day was a day because God deemed it to be so. I use to think it was from the light God made and the earth turning but I changed my mind on that since Exodus includes everything into the 6 days, from before he made the light source in Genesis 1:3
The passing of the day with light and dark is solely for our benefit as was the moon and stars so we could plot the seasons and time passing.

But if my children had asked such a thing I would have explained that in our country say the new day starts at 12am but in Jewish culture the new day began at 6pm, but that when we (people) determine when a day starts or ends isn't important, what is important is that 24 hours have passed. God deemed that a day is 24 hours and that a week is 7 days.

I think the only ones who believe the moon gives it's own light are those who hold to a flat earth. I disagree that the Bible teaches flat earth, but I will not argue with them anymore. If this is what they believe in faith then that is what they believe. I don't think the shape of the earth affects salvation.

Snakes do eat dirt. That doesn't mean their diet is dirt, its simply a consequence of being on the ground.
 
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