Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2021

Two posts previously posted this thread
The Sabbath was given exclusively to the children of Israel.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

= = = = =
Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If Jesus spoke this in Hebrew and He very likely did the words He spoke were. ונתתי לך שׁבת
I give you Sabbath

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2021

Soyeong said:
While it was a sign given to Israel only, it was never a sign meant for Israel only because Israel was given the role of being a light and a blessing to the world through testifying about how to have a relationship with God. In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with them, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai, and in John 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there have always been righteous Gentiles who have affiliated themselves with the God of Israel, who have sought by faith to repent from their sins and to learn how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law. There is not much sense in a Gentile rejecting the light of God word because it was given to Israelites in order to show it to them instead of being directly given to them. Jesus taught his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law both by word and by example and following him is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.

While it is good understand whom God's laws were given to, it is not good to focus on that so much that you lose sight of what they teach us about the nature of whom they were given by. God's nature is eternal, so they way to testify about God's nature is also eternal, and existed before God made any covenants with man, so we would still be obligated to testify about God's nature even if He had never made any covenants with man. The sign only ended if what it is a sign of is no longer true, so for you to say that sign has ended is to deny that God saves His people out of bondage.

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus was not asked about which commandments should still be followed to the exclusion of others, but about which commandment is the greatest, and the existed of the greatest two commandment implies that there are still other commandments that are not the greatest. The greatest two commandments were the greatest two commandments even when they were first given to Moses, so Jesus was not changing which commandments we should follow. All of the laws that God has given are examples of what it means to love God and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected, and the moment you want to take just the greatest two, all of the other commandments come with. For example, obedience to the command to help the poor is part of what it means to obey the command to love our neighbor, so the command to love does not replace the other commandments, but rather it is the essence of them. The greatest two commandments are a lot easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us all of the other commandments to paint us a picture of what it means to obey them. Someone who was living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would act in the same was as someone who lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. If someone's obedience to the greatest two commandments does not involve obedience to God's other commandments, they they would not be treating them as being the sum of the other commandments. There are many verses in both the OT and the NT that associate our love for God with our obedience to His commandments, which includes keeping the 7th day holy, so yes the greatest two commandments do require keeping the 7th day holy.

See my post #261 immediately above.

Studyman · Apr 19, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
That is illogical. The priesthood naturally includes it's own set of laws. The writer of Hebrews is referring to the Law being changed in general. Read Hebrews 7:18-19 and pay special close attention to verse 19.

Hebrews 7:18-19 KJB
[18] “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. [19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did ; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

You are forgetting to consider the verses you omitted that I posted friend. And it seems you are trying to change the subject of this chapter, to be a referendum of God's Statutes, Commandments and Laws, when it is clearly Speaking about the Levitical Priesthood.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

How was a Priest "made" in the Priesthood Law? He was appointed by another Levite Priest, at least according to the God of the Bible. Did this bring about perfection? No! And if you were to consider the verses you are omitting, Hebrews 7 explains this, just as it explains what LAW changed and why, that I posted.

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, (Levites appointing other Levites) but after the power of an endless life.

What was the "Carnal Commandment"?

28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

What Law made men "High Priests"? Was it Love God and Love your neighbor and all that hang on these? Or was it the LAW ADDED 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws?

This entire Chapter, along with 8-10 speaks to the Levitical Priesthood that was Prophesied to change, was Temporary in it's very beginning, as God knew Jesus, a non-Levite, would become the High Priest, "After those days" even when He gave HIS Priesthood Covenant to Levi.

You are trying to change this chapter as a referendum of, what Paul called, God's "Good, Just, Spiritual and Holy" Laws. When it is clearly a referendum on the Levitical Priesthood Law the Hebrews Author calls "Carnal, weak, and unprofitable".

Jesus was "Made Perfect". He wasn't "made perfect" because HE was "appointed by a Levite" according to Priesthood Law, He was Made Perfect because *****, Well I'll let this same Hebrews author tell you.

Heb. 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Obedience to what? The Laws of the Levitical Priesthood? Or the Commandments, statutes and Laws the Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to, "Till the SEED should come"?

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

How was HE Made Perfect? By learning obedience to the Levitical Priesthood? Or by learning obedience to the Commandments, Statutes, and Laws of God this Levitical Priesthood Law was "ADDED" to ?

Please answer this question. Jesus forgave sins while walking the earth, YES? You do believe this, Yes? When did HE dip HIS Finger in the blood of a turtle dove and sprinkle its blood on the alter as per the Levitical Priesthood Law?

He never did Brother. That is because HE was a High Priest "After the order of Melchizedek", and not "after the order of Aaron". And Yet He was considered Sinless by God. If the Law of God and the Levitical Priesthood is one big contract, with no division, then you are claiming Jesus was a Lawless man.

How can you know what the New Covenant is if you reject the Covenant God made with Levi?

Before we move on to other scriptures, let us first make sure were are not miss-applying or miss-representing Hebrews 7. We can do this by examining and acknowledging "EVERY" verse in the Chapter.

If we don't accept God's Definition of HIS Own New Covenant, then we are no better than the Pharisees, who also rejected God's Definition of His own New Covenant.

Most mainstream preachers, in my experience, will refuse to engage in an open, honest, unbiased discussion and examination of these scriptures, because they already have their religious philosophy, and are here to further it.

My hope is that we can transcend the religious philosophies of the land we are born into, and consider "Every Word of God" as Jesus also instructs.

Thanks for the reply. I hope you will consider every verse in this chapter, and all of the Holy Scriptures.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 19, 2021

Nathan@work said:
No, I never said or implied that the commandment applies to a "one time" obeying.

It is perpetual, as is His rest, just like any other commandment. The seventh day of creation was the day God rested and hallowed - He forever ceased the work of creation - He did not start creating again the next day.

You seem to be caught up in the weekly Sabbaths(plural) and not remembering the Sabbath(singular) day God rested.

Maybe this will help. You are married, as so am I.

I was married on January 20th, 2001.

Every year on January 20th we 'remember' the day we were married. Does it mean we get married each year? No, it is a day that we remember when we were married. Does it mean every January 20th is the same as the actual day we were married? No, we enjoy our marriage all year long.

The weekly Sabbaths were a remembrance of the actual day that God rested. The day God rested was the day He blessed and made holy. That is the day the commandment says to remember.

Now, God wanted them to remember that day in a specific manner. He wanted them to remember it by resting each week, on the seventh day of that week.

What we know, that they did not, is the Sabbath day of creation was pointing to the Messiah to come - and our rest in Him. This is what we learn from the book of Hebrews.

We now remember the Sabbath day of creation, keeping the 4th commandment, by resting from our works as God did His. Resting on the Sabbath day each week is not resting as God did because the next day you start the week all over again - God did not start creation all over again.

The 'law' of the ordinance in keeping the weekly Sabbath was to guard them, as were the other laws, until the fulness of time when Christ came. Now that Christ has come, we rest in Him - not in a day - we rest in His finished work.

Does that mean we cannot still 'remember' the Sabbath day of creation each week? Of course not! I still remember my wedding on the 20th of January. However, I can remember my wedding anytime, I do not have to wait till the 20th of January comes around.

There have been times over the years when we did not get to celebrate our wedding on the 20th. Does it change the fact we were married on that day if we celebrate it on the 21st or 19th? No!

Why? Because we love each other. We know it is not about the day that comes around once a year, it is not even about the actual day back in 2001 - it is about each and every single day we have with each other.

[Heb 4:1-2 ESV] Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.

I hope the message benefits you and you are united with it in Faith.

From what you are saying, God commanded Himself to get us rest and that is not what the commandment is about. Do you really think that God who says only to worship Him would not designate the day when to do so? He did every seventh day on His Sabbath.

We do not receive God's rest by breaking God's laws, including the 4th that says to Remember the Sabbath day, to keep Holy. Exodus 20:8 Hebrew 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience.

We are going around and around and it's not fruitful as we have been through this already many times. The one we will all need to answer to is our Savior. God bless

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
From what you are saying, God commanded Himself to get us rest and that is not what the commandment is about. Do you really think that God who says only to worship Him would not designate the day when to do so? He did every seventh day on His Sabbath.
We do not receive God's rest by breaking God's laws, including the 4th that says to Exodus 20:8Remember the Sabbath day, to keep Holy. Hebrew 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience.
We are going around and around and it's not fruitful as we have been through this already many times. The one we will all need to answer to is our Savior. God bless

The Sabbath was given exclusively to the children of Israel.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

= = = = =
Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If Jesus spoke this in Hebrew and He very likely did the words He spoke were. ונתתי לך שׁבת
I will give you Sabbath/rest

SabbathBlessings · Apr 19, 2021

Der Alte said:
The Sabbath was given exclusively to the children of Israel.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
= = = = =
Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
If Jesus spoke this in Hebrew and He very likely did the words He spoke were. ונתתי לך שׁבת
I will give you Sabbath/rest

The TEN are given to everyone which includes God's Sabbath. Are only the Jews not to worship other gods, or are we? What about murder. Is this commandment for Jews only? No, it's for all. The Ten are a unit and it's God's moral laws and the first 4 are our duty on how we are to love Him and the last six how we are to love and treat each other.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. Notice it does not say "Jews all". It's man= you and me.

Note Jesus did not say He made the Sabbath for Jews- it's for everyone Mark 2:27. The Jews are not the only ones who are going to be saved which is why all (not Jews) will worship Him every Sabbath like He commanded in Exodus 20:8-11 in the New Earth Isaiah 66:23.

Soyeong · Apr 19, 2021

Der Alte said:
See my post #261 immediately above.

Post #261 essentially just repeated what I wrote my post in response to, so please interact with what I wrote.

Nathan@work · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
From what you are saying, God commanded Himself to get us rest and that is not what the commandment is about. Do you really think that God who says only to worship Him would not designate the day when to do so? He did every seventh day on His Sabbath.

We do not receive God's rest by breaking God's laws, including the 4th that says to Exodus 20:8Remember the Sabbath day, to keep Holy. Hebrew 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience.

We are going around and around and it's not fruitful as we have been through this already many times. The one we will all need to answer to is our Savior. God bless

Think about what you are saying. God wants continual worship - not one day in seven.

No, God did not 'command Himself' to get us rest. The commandment is to remember the day He rested. It is not complicated. I remember my wedding day, not to get married again each year, but as a remembrance of what I did - and its perpetuation.

I know we do not receive God's rest by breaking His laws. That is what I am trying to show you. His command is to remember the Sabbath day of creation. When you choose to remember the weekly Sabbath, holding it in higher regard over the day He rested on, then you are breaking His commandment.

Just think about it. Seriously. Would it not bother you if your husband just simply cares about the date of the marriage each year - not the marriage itself, the day of your wedding, and why you were married? Your anniversary is to remember the day you got married, not to remember the day of your anniversary.

God wants us to remember the day He rested. It is not complicated. It is not about a weekly day of "do this, don't do that". It is about us loving God - the Creator - the Sustainer - the Almighty - the Deliverer - our Savior.

God gave Israel the list of "do this/don't do that" in order to guard them against forsaking Him - to show them their need for His rest!

The ones who have not entered into His rest - through disobedience - have not done so because they do not enter by Faith. They are relying on works of the law. Are you relying on works of the law?

The ones who enter His rest do so through Faith. I implore you to enter His rest.

[Heb 3:19 ESV] So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
The TEN are given to everyone which includes God's Sabbath. Are only the Jews not to worship other gods, or are we? What about murder. Is this commandment for Jews only? No, it's for all. The Ten are a unit and it's God's moral laws and the first 4 are our duty on how we are to love Him and the last six how we are to love and treat each other.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man’s all. Notice it does not say "Jews all". It's man= you and me.
Note Jesus did not say He made the Sabbath for Jews- it's for everyone Mark 2:27. The Jews are not the only ones who are going to be saved which is why all (not Jews) will worship Him every Sabbath like He commanded in Exodus 20:8-11 in the New Earth Isaiah 66:23.

How about addressing the verses I quoted.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.

= = = = =
Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If Jesus spoke this in Hebrew and He very likely did the words He spoke were. ונתתי לך שׁבת
I will give you Sabbath/rest

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2021

Soyeong said:
While it was a sign given to Israel only, it was never a sign meant for Israel only because Israel was given the role of being a light and a blessing to the world through testifying about how to have a relationship with God. In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with them, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai, and in John 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there have always been righteous Gentiles who have affiliated themselves with the God of Israel, who have sought by faith to repent from their sins and to learn how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law.

Only if they join themselves to Israel. Did you as SDA join Israel and do you obey all the commandments in the OT? Pentecost, feast of trumpets, unleavened bread etc? Do you attend a synagogue or a SDA church? Do you have priests dressed as specified in the OT?

There is not much sense in a Gentile rejecting the light of God word because it was given to Israelites in order to show it to them instead of being directly given to them. Jesus taught his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law both by word and by example and following him is not just for Jews, but for Gentiles too.

Did Jesus ever specifically command His followers to observe the Sabbath and obey all the commandments in the OT?

While it is good understand whom God's laws were given to, it is not good to focus on that so much that you lose sight of what they teach us about the nature of whom they were given by. God's nature is eternal, so they way to testify about God's nature is also eternal, and existed before God made any covenants with man, so we would still be obligated to testify about God's nature even if He had never made any covenants with man. The sign only ended if what it is a sign of is no longer true, so for you to say that sign has ended is to deny that God saves His people out of bondage.
In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus was not asked about which commandments should still be followed to the exclusion of others, but about which commandment is the greatest, and the existed of the greatest two commandment implies that there are still other commandments that are not the greatest. The greatest two commandments were the greatest two commandments even when they were first given to Moses, so Jesus was not changing which commandments we should follow. All of the laws that God has given are examples of what it means to love God and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected, and the moment you want to take just the greatest two, all of the other commandments come with. For example, obedience to the command to help the poor is part of what it means to obey the command to love our neighbor, so the command to love does not replace the other commandments, but rather it is the essence of them. The greatest two commandments are a lot easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us all of the other commandments to paint us a picture of what it means to obey them. Someone who was living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would act in the same was as someone who lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. If someone's obedience to the greatest two commandments does not involve obedience to God's other commandments, they they would not be treating them as being the sum of the other commandments. There are many verses in both the OT and the NT that associate our love for God with our obedience to His commandments, which includes keeping the 7th day holy, so yes the greatest two commandments do require keeping the 7th day holy.

Do you observe all the other commandments? When was the last time you observed a Passover seder, removed all leaven from your home and ate nothing with leaven for seven days? When you observe the Passover do you have the youngest male in your household ask "What is the meaning of this service?" And does the father quote the words in Ex 12:27

Exodus 12:26-27
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 19, 2021

[

Der Alte said:
Did Jesus ever specifically command His followers to observe the Sabbath and obey all the commandments in the OT?

Yes, He did. There is not a different God from the OT to the NT. Jesus kept all of God's commandments and asked us to as well. Mathew 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

There is no scripture telling us the Sabbath commandment has been abolished and we are now to keep the first day as God's holy day. This is a man-made teaching that Jesus warns us about Mathew 15:8,9 and even the early founders know which day is God's true day of worship.

There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.
—Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the ‘Baptist Manual’.

To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false [Jewish traditional] glosses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instructing those founded, discuss or approach the subject.

Of course I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day as we learn from the Christian Fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun-god, then adopted and sanctified by the Papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism.
—Dr. E. T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in 'New York Examiner,' November 16, 1893

The Scriptures nowhere call the first day of the week the Sabbath. . .There is no Scriptural authority for so doing, nor of course, any Scriptural obligation.
—The Watchman.

Nathan@work · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
[

Yes, He did. There is not a different God from the OT to the NT. Jesus kept all of God's commandments and asked us to as well. Mathew 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

There is no scripture telling us the Sabbath commandment has been abolished and we are now to keep the first day as God's holy day. This is a man-made teaching that Jesus warns us about Mathew 15:8,9 and even the early founders know which day is God's true day of worship.

There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.
—Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the ‘Baptist Manual’.

To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false [Jewish traditional] glosses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instructing those founded, discuss or approach the subject.

Of course I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day as we learn from the Christian Fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun-god, then adopted and sanctified by the Papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism.
—Dr. E. T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in 'New York Examiner,' November 16, 1893

The Scriptures nowhere call the first day of the week the Sabbath. . .There is no Scriptural authority for so doing, nor of course, any Scriptural obligation.
—The Watchman.

The 4th commandment is to remember the Sabbath day of creation. It is not about the day of the week, it is about the completed work God did and then rested from.

[Gen 2:1-3 ESV] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

[Exo 20:8 ESV] Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

[Exo 20:11 ESV] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It does not say that God blessed every seventh day, and made every seventh day holy.

If you want to obey the commandment you will remember the Sabbath day of creation - the day God rested.

Why do you judge others as law breakers? If someone remembers the Sabbath day and keeps it holy, why do you judge them if they do not worship God in the same way you do?

a-lily-of-peace · Apr 19, 2021

I used to rest on the Sabbath (Saturday) when I converted but before I got baptised, because at the time I had no clear reason not to. But now I see a distinction made in doing “my work” compared to “the work of my Father” and in the Lord saying He and His Father are working (even on the Sabbath) and so those distinctions (“my” work compared to knowing Christ is my Master) seem to be more of a distraction rather than questioning myself at every moment if what I’m doing serves God or myself.

(not that I perfectly deny self but I see that putting a glass partition between six days to work for myself and one day to rest from my work is spiritually distracting)

And I like going to church on Sunday to connect with an entire world of believers who are doing the same thing.

Also you can’t bake bread on the sabbath according to Levitical law so Sunday morning would have been a better time to do so.

Der Alte · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
[
Yes, He did. There is not a different God from the OT to the NT. Jesus kept all of God's commandments and asked us to as well. Mathew 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
There is no scripture telling us the Sabbath commandment has been abolished and we are now to keep the first day as God's holy day. This is a man-made teaching that Jesus warns us about Mathew 15:8,9 and even the early founders know which day is God's true day of worship.
There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.
—Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the ‘Baptist Manual’.
To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' discussion with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question, discussing it in some of its various aspects, freeing it from its false [Jewish traditional] glosses, never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during the forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated. Nor, so far as we know, did the Spirit, which was given to bring to their remembrance all things whatsoever that He had said unto them, deal with this question. Nor yet did the inspired apostles, in preaching the gospel, founding churches, counseling and instructing those founded, discuss or approach the subject.
Of course I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day as we learn from the Christian Fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun-god, then adopted and sanctified by the Papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism.
—Dr. E. T. Hiscox, report of his sermon at the Baptist Minister's Convention, in 'New York Examiner,' November 16, 1893
The Scriptures nowhere call the first day of the week the Sabbath. . .There is no Scriptural authority for so doing, nor of course, any Scriptural obligation.
—The Watchman.

Never heard of this guy. Too many errors/misrepresentations to count but the biggest one is this. I first went to Sunday School when FDR was president and I have been a Baptist since LBJ was president.
I have never heard or read when any church or denomination, I have been associated with, said that Sunday is the Sabbath.
All I have ever heard it called is "The Lord's Day." And guess what we observe it every seventh day.
Then we have to consider the OT Sabbath was based on a 29.5 day lunar month. Which means every 2 months there is an extra day to line up with the solar month. Those extra days can't be ignored. The Jews added intercalary days otherwise the months would slip back 6 days every year. In 5 years that is an entire month.
All of the feasts and festivals are to occur at a certain season of the year. For example the harvest festival occurs at harvest time not a month earlier or later.
Please explain to me how the former pagan gentiles in Greece e.g. Corinth, Thessalonica etc. Asia,[Turkey] Ephesus, Galatia etc. would know about the Sabbath and all the other OT laws since they did NOT have the OT. They didn't even have the NT it was in the process of being lived and written.
Churches may have had a few of the epistles but since manuscripts were hand copied they were very expensive, the average person could not afford them.
So unless the OT laws were written and taught in the churches the Greeks, Turks, Babylonians etc. would not know about them.

Saint Steven · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
Jesus was accused of a lot of thing, including breaking the Sabbath, but Jesus did not sin.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, which means it was his call. He was setting the law aside. Where there is no law, there is no transgression. (Romans 4:15)

The most basic violation of Sabbath rest is to work on the Sabbath. What did Jesus say in his defense after being accused of breaking the Sabbath?

John 5:16-18 NIV
So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

Studyman · Apr 19, 2021

a-lily-in-the-valley said:
I used to rest on the Sabbath (Saturday) when I converted but before I got baptised, because at the time I had no clear reason not to. But now I see a distinction made in doing “my work” compared to “the work of my Father” and in the Lord saying He and His Father are working (even on the Sabbath) and so those distinctions (“my” work compared to knowing Christ is my Master) seem to be more of a distraction rather than questioning myself at every moment if what I’m doing serves God or myself.

(not that I perfectly deny self but I see that putting a glass partition between six days to work for myself and one day to rest from my work is spiritually distracting)

And I like going to church on Sunday to connect with an entire world of believers who are doing the same thing.

Also you can’t bake bread on the sabbath according to Levitical law so Sunday morning would have been a better time to do so.

The Sabbath of the God of the Bible is to be a fast from the world. A day dedicated to God in study and family, apart from servile work. It is not man's work, but God's. Created by God, commanded by God, and when God became a man, Kept by God.

I know there are voices who say it is man's work to keep God's Sabbath, or that obedience is somehow trying to earn salvation. But The entire concept of time, and a 7 day week, was created by the God of the Bible. The entire concept of setting aside the 7th day as a day of rest from this world, and the prince thereof, was 100% from God to and for man.

It is truly a part of the "Way of the Lord" of the Bible, and not a Work of man in the least.

There is a Scripture which speaks to this Fast in Is. 58.

Is. 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

I love this verse as a member of those men who strive to walk "In the Way of the Lord", even as Jesus Walked.

Am I serving myself in this obedience, or God? Who needs the rest, me or God? Who needs the band's of wickedness loosened, me or God? Who is "cast out" by the religions of this world for Christ's Sake, me or God? Who needs delivered from deception and Sin and the evils on every side, me or God? Who is naked and needs covered, me or God.

Who needs to stop hiding from the man in the mirror, and come to terms with this man, me or God?

No my friend, after 25 years separating this day from all others, it has become perfectly clear. God truly did create His Sabbath for man. When I follow His instruction, I am serving myself in a manner of speaking, because it is me, not God, who NEEDS His instruction.

13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

I know that most can not receive this. And my heart mourns for religious men who have been convinced they don't need God's instruction, or the Sabbath of the Lord's Christ.

But as for me, I couldn't survive without Him or His "Way".

Saint Steven · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
Not really. God gave the commandments for everyone...

Not so. The law was given to the Israelites alone through Moses.

Deuteronomy 5:3 NIV
It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

John 1:17 NIV
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Saint Steven · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
God made man on the six day and the very next day was Sabbath.

Where were the six days of labor before the supposed first Sabbath day rest? Oops.

Saint Steven · Apr 19, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Amen! These were not Christians having a weekly church service here but Jews and proselytes who Paul preached the gospel to. The Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship. The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The Gentiles that were in the synagogue along with the Jews were proselytes.

Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God."

Acts 14:1 "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.“

Acts 18:4 "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

Exactly.
The synagogues were a dangerous place for believers to be. They certainly could not worship Jesus there.

John 9:22 NIV
His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who already had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Messiah would be put out of the synagogue.

John 12:42 NIV
Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;

John 16:2 NIV
They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.

Saint Steven · Apr 19, 2021

imge said:
Maybe you can provide scripture where Jesus did not keep the Sabbath. Not the scripture where the Pharisees accused Jesus of not keeping Sabbath, which is proof enough if they were accusing Him of breaking the Sabbath, which He wasn't, that means He was keeping Sabbath.

I gave you the best two examples. He also implicates himself in the food gathering incident. Matthew 12, Mark 2, Luke 6.

Matthew 12:3 NIV
He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?

Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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