Real problem of Church

Chris35

Active Member
May 27, 2018
272
158
Melbourne
✟53,653.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I know alot have left churches, including me, because i feel churches for the most part have been led astray, full of division, bickering, and criticism.

Post by another member
Many 'committed' Christians have been leaving churches(established church)..for years. They are tired of church politics, money, status issue, etc..

I have been pondering this for awhile now, and have recently begun to realize that for the most part, it may very well be our own fault as Christians.

Here being the problem, that churches get led astray, and doing things wrong, the members of the church start seeing this, become judgmental, critizing about leadership, and then sooner or later decided to leave and find a church that suits them more, or that dont have these problems.

Should we be doing instead?

1 Timothy 2:1-2 - I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

Why would we be asked to pray about those in authority, and interceed if prayer dont bring change?



Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God has the power to bring change, to raise kings and leaders, to take the down.


And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel.

There are many examples in the bible, where prayer brings change.


When is the last time that we gave thanks to God for our churches?

What do you think would happen if the majority of the believes, instead of leaving and critizing, got to together, fasted, prayed and petitioned to God for their leaders, and to bring change in their church?


Is it possible that we the believers, are the ones, who have failed the church, because we did not come together and do these things, give thanks, petition, interceed, nor pray, instead we made judgment and left.
 

tryphena rose

Daughter of the Most High
Jun 3, 2019
328
513
Idaho
✟46,975.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I know alot have left churches, including me, because i feel churches for the most part have been led astray, full of division, bickering, and criticism.

Post by another member
Many 'committed' Christians have been leaving churches(established church)..for years. They are tired of church politics, money, status issue, etc..

I have been pondering this for awhile now, and have recently begun to realize that for the most part, it may very well be our own fault as Christians.

Here being the problem, that churches get led astray, and doing things wrong, the members of the church start seeing this, become judgmental, critizing about leadership, and then sooner or later decided to leave and find a church that suits them more, or that dont have these problems.

Should we be doing instead?

1 Timothy 2:1-2 - I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

Why would we be asked to pray about those in authority, and interceed if prayer dont bring change?



Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God has the power to bring change, to raise kings and leaders, to take the down.


And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel.

There are many examples in the bible, where prayer brings change.


When is the last time that we gave thanks to God for our churches?

What do you think would happen if the majority of the believes, instead of leaving and critizing, got to together, fasted, prayed and petitioned to God for their leaders, and to bring change in their church?


Is it possible that we the believers, are the ones, who have failed the church, because we did not come together and do these things, give thanks, petition, interceed, nor pray, instead we made judgment and left.
Your post speaks a lot of truth here brother. A lot of things can be said with this topic, but I think you already hit the nail on the head. I think today we see a trend of believers criticizing the church rather then uplifting and edifying their fellow brethren, which would greatly help the church overall. Jesus said these very key things, that I think the church has lost sight of today.

And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. Mark 3:25

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:35

How will the world see Christ's love in us if we just bicker and criticize one another all day long? If we are heavily divided? I think this actually turns off a lot of unbelievers as Jesus implies.

I also see a lot of division between denominations (at least here in America). Where people subscribe very strictly to a set Christian title, rather then just being followers of Jesus and uniting and rejoicing in that. I've been to both Baptist and Pentecostal churches, and either one will harp on how the other does things that aren't Biblical. I think both have their faults in following after the traditions and teachings of men rather then the scriptures. This issue I think also lies in being too "religious" and having less grace towards one another.

Another thing that has hindered the western church, is how easy and comfortable our Christianity is. I definitely think this has been God's blessing, but may also be used in end-times prophecy due to the whole "great falling away" part. I think more persecution would actually benefit the church. I think this would also separate the true followers of Jesus from the one's who just followed tradition, and would almost automatically cause more unity amongst each other as this is usually where the persecuted church finds the most comfort. You look at persecuted churches around the world today and they remind me a lot of how the early church may have been in how heavily they rely on one another.

One more thing that you touched upon, is I think people in general are very sensitive. If we get offended, then we can't just put that aside and forgive - we have to lash out and get mad and leave to find someplace that feels more cozy and welcoming. This is hardly different from the world. And again, I think more persecution almost forces people to have to be tougher and not to take things so personally.

Like you, I think we could have way less bickering and way more prayer and love. We should always be thankful for the church, no matter the state it's in because Christ suffered, died and defeated death for it. He loves the church that much, no matter it's faults. And He will be the one who ultimately judges it's members.

It's hard to say if we are the one's who have failed the church, or if God's hand is in the current state of the church in order for the Lord Jesus to return someday soon. I suppose only time will tell.
 
Upvote 0
Apr 6, 2021
13
5
North America
✟9,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I know alot have left churches, including me, because i feel churches for the most part have been led astray, full of division, bickering, and criticism.

Post by another member
Many 'committed' Christians have been leaving churches(established church)..for years. They are tired of church politics, money, status issue, etc..

I have been pondering this for awhile now, and have recently begun to realize that for the most part, it may very well be our own fault as Christians.

Here being the problem, that churches get led astray, and doing things wrong, the members of the church start seeing this, become judgmental, critizing about leadership, and then sooner or later decided to leave and find a church that suits them more, or that dont have these problems.

Should we be doing instead?

1 Timothy 2:1-2 - I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

Why would we be asked to pray about those in authority, and interceed if prayer dont bring change?



Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God has the power to bring change, to raise kings and leaders, to take the down.


And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel.

There are many examples in the bible, where prayer brings change.


When is the last time that we gave thanks to God for our churches?

What do you think would happen if the majority of the believes, instead of leaving and critizing, got to together, fasted, prayed and petitioned to God for their leaders, and to bring change in their church?


Is it possible that we the believers, are the ones, who have failed the church, because we did not come together and do these things, give thanks, petition, interceed, nor pray, instead we made judgment and left.
 
Upvote 0

Jay Sea

................ Ke ĉiuj vivu
Mar 28, 2020
340
161
81
victoria
✟26,347.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Perhaps the problem with churches derives from the various seminaries which do not prepare the priests or ministers to help people apply their gifts in the world. Ie they do not deal with real world problems of injustice in workplaces, man created poverty and inequality. Peace making and conflict resolution in a torn world or family. They do not prepare people to heal the world as Yeshua did.
In Love
Jay Sea
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0
Apr 6, 2021
13
5
North America
✟9,877.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
We as Children of God need to obey the elders of the Church and not disobey them 1 Peter 5:1-11 also 1 Timothy 5:1,2 do not rebuke an older man but exhort him as a father younger men as brothers, older women as mothers, younger women as sisters with all purity. when we have a problem with another Christian we need to go to them and talk to them with love in our hearts and tell them they have ofended us and make it right between us and no go and forsake the assembly of ourselves together. we should not always want to be right and others wrong why not take what we are ofended by and give it to God in prayer. thanks you. a Servant of God.
 
Upvote 0

quietpraiyze

In The Secret Place
Nov 18, 2011
2,159
813
✟93,590.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I know alot have left churches, including me, because i feel churches for the most part have been led astray, full of division, bickering, and criticism.

Post by another member
Many 'committed' Christians have been leaving churches(established church)..for years. They are tired of church politics, money, status issue, etc..

I have been pondering this for awhile now, and have recently begun to realize that for the most part, it may very well be our own fault as Christians.

Here being the problem, that churches get led astray, and doing things wrong, the members of the church start seeing this, become judgmental, critizing about leadership, and then sooner or later decided to leave and find a church that suits them more, or that dont have these problems.

Should we be doing instead?

1 Timothy 2:1-2 - I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

Why would we be asked to pray about those in authority, and interceed if prayer dont bring change?



Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God has the power to bring change, to raise kings and leaders, to take the down.


And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel.

There are many examples in the bible, where prayer brings change.


When is the last time that we gave thanks to God for our churches?

What do you think would happen if the majority of the believes, instead of leaving and critizing, got to together, fasted, prayed and petitioned to God for their leaders, and to bring change in their church?


Is it possible that we the believers, are the ones, who have failed the church, because we did not come together and do these things, give thanks, petition, interceed, nor pray, instead we made judgment and left.

Ughhhh...you're making sweeping assumptions here. You don't know why someone has left "institutional religion" until they share that with you. As someone who was led out of the "religious system" by the Holy Spirit, I can tell you I don't tear down that system. Maybe it's because I didn't leave with bitterness and/or unforgiveness in my heart. Also many Christians who have left a religious system sometimes have family members in that same system. So it doesn't benefit those of us who have left that system to tear it down.

Some Christians go to church and some Christians don't. Understanding that Jesus didn't call His disciples "leaders" can maybe help you understand the Body Of Christ a little better. Maybe that way you won't be so quick to start this thing of making accusations, placing blame, and projecting on to those of us who don't go to church...
 
Upvote 0

topher694

Go Turtle!
Jan 29, 2019
3,828
3,038
St. Cloud, MN
✟186,760.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If you go from church to church and find yourself leaving each time because of similar issues, perhaps you are the one who is bringing the issue with you and some self examination is in order.

If a church continually sees people leaving for similar reasons, perhaps the problem isn't with the people, but something is out of balance with the church and some self examination is in order.
 
Upvote 0

Chris35

Active Member
May 27, 2018
272
158
Melbourne
✟53,653.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ughhhh...you're making sweeping assumptions here. You don't know why someone has left "institutional religion" until they share that with you. As someone who was led out of the "religious system" by the Holy Spirit, I can tell you I don't tear down that system. Maybe it's because I didn't leave with bitterness and/or unforgiveness in my heart. Also many Christians who have left a religious system sometimes have family members in that same system. So it doesn't benefit those of us who have left that system to tear it down.

Some Christians go to church and some Christians don't. Understanding that Jesus didn't call His disciples "leaders" can maybe help you understand the Body Of Christ a little better. Maybe that way you won't be so quick to start this thing of making accusations, placing blame, and projecting on to those of us who don't go to church...

By no means, do i mean to offend, nor project, onto those that have left, I am indeed one those who did leave myself. Im not after condemnation, i am after healing of the church. It cant keep going on like this, to many are suffering.

I am aware that their are other reasons why the holy spirit would pull someone, that being, some religious systems / churches are indeed very corrupt, preach the wrong gospel and will not change. Also for religious trauma, in order for healing the damage that has been done. It can be very damaging. The post is not for them at all.

Sooner ot later though, your going to be called back, not all churches are bad, it also isnt so good to be isolated and away from your brothers and sisters for so long.


The message is more for those who currently in church, are getting fustrated with it, and angry, and feel there is no choice but to leave....

Yes! I believe there is something you can do! As i should have done in the first place! Come together, unite, come before God, fast, pray, interceed to him for your church, for righteous leadership, for love and unity inside youe church.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

quietpraiyze

In The Secret Place
Nov 18, 2011
2,159
813
✟93,590.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
By no means, do i mean to offend, nor project, onto those that have left, I am indeed one those who did leave myself. Im not after condemnation, i am after healing of the church. It cant keep going on like this, to many are suffering.

I am aware that their are other reasons why the holy spirit would pull someone, that being, some religious systems / churches are indeed very corrupt, preach the wrong gospel and will not change. Also for religious trauma, in order for healing the damage that has been done. It can be very damaging. The post is not for them at all.

Sooner ot later though, your going to be called back, not all churches are bad, it also isnt so good to be isolated and away from your brothers and sisters for so long.


The message is more for those who currently in church, are getting fustrated with it, and angry, and feel there is no choice but to leave....

Yes! I believe there is something you can do! As i should have done in the first place! Come together, unite, come before God, fast, pray, interceed to him for your church, for righteous leadership, for love and unity inside youe church.

No I won't be going back and what isolation from my brothers and sisters in Christ are you talking about? *sigh*...You don't "see" do you?

You can only reproduce what you are...smh...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
To work, pray, and counsel in hopes of improving the situation in any church is admirable and right to do.

The problem is that there is a price being paid if, while you are doing that, years pass with little improvement or, if not that, it is the case that your own worship life, spiritual growth, and peace of mind is damaged. That is not good.

Leaving doctrinal matters aside for the sake of this particular discussion, to change congregations is often the best thing to do...and that doesn't prevent anyone from continuing to pray that the former church will get things back on course.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,779
Pacific Northwest
✟728,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a country club for saints.

Of course there are going to be sinners, hypocrites, drunks, gluttons, gossipers, and the like at church. Because we're the ones going to church. We are the sinners, hypocrites, drunks, gluttons, and gossipers.

That's why the Christian Church preaches repentance.
That's why the Christian Church preaches the Gospel.

Law and Gospel.
Law to mortify our flesh, to drive us to our knees in grief and contrition over our sins in repentance.

The Gospel to comfort, sooth, and heal the broken and beaten hearts of sinners, to lift us up in Christ to life everlasting by God's superabundant grace, by which we are forgiven.

If a church isn't preaching the Law as the Law, and the Gospel as the Gospel, then yes there is something wrong going on. Not because there are sinners in that church; but because the church isn't being the Church.

The Church is where God's Word and Sacraments are found. For sinners, you and me.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0