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Russia trying to mislead Americans with disinformation about vaccines

Astroqualia

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If someone dies in the view of an expert like a doctor from Covid, I will tend to believe the professional knows his/her stuff, usually, and isn't incompetent.

But we use other methods, to independently check, also, on the overall count of all deaths, statistically. And that confirms the overall approximate toll.

Basically, people know how to do their own jobs better than we do from the outside who aren't in their profession, we out here that don't work in hospital ICUs.
You can read and see how the deaths are counted for yourself. Remaining willfully blinded by how covid numbers are counted, and saying something like "well that's just how it is" is not good. We are being swindled by the satanic powers that be, and folks are just passively accepting of it. It's really sad, to be honest. These professionals just follow directions and orders from someone above them, and eventually you get to someone who is in a position of power who is working an agenda. Doctors and nurses learn from a book; from another human who wrote the book. They are no more inherently smarter or more qualified to decide anything than anybody else. They simply made different choices in life, and decided to pursue a specific vein of knowledge. It really surprises me that more folk don't realize that's how things are in this world.
 
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expos4ever

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Covid has killed 3 million? Do you know how they arrive at that number? Folks dying *with* covid is not the same as dying *by* covid.

And no, when you realize who owns the media conglomerates and who owns big pharma, you really won't see reports of deaths from certain sources.
Do you have any evidence to support the assertion that there are systematic efforts to "over-count" Covid deaths?
 
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Astroqualia

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Do you have any evidence to support the assertion that there are systematic efforts to "over-count" Covid deaths?
If you had seen the guidelines given to hospitals by the CDC, as well as saw the reports from the white house that explained how they're counted, they literally confirmed that is exactly what they do. They confirmed that dying with covid is what is counted. If you Google around a bit, I'm sure you can find that same information. I saw it when it came out. Also, the 10,000$ from Medicare given to hospitals per covid patient, plus the 30k$ given per ventilator patient. There are a lot of holes and issues with the official narrative about covid.
 
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expos4ever

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If you had seen the guidelines given to hospitals by the CDC, as well as saw the reports from the white house that explained how they're counted, they literally confirmed that is exactly what they do. They confirmed that dying with covid is what is counted. If you Google around a bit, I'm sure you can find that same information.
This is not how it works - this is your claim, you bear the responsibility to produce the evidence.
 
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Astroqualia

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This is not how it works - this is your claim, you bear the responsibility to produce the evidence.
This isn't my claim, this is the reality of the situation. If you don't want to know, then don't seek out the info. I'm so tired of always having to research for folks who don't want to do it themselves. I've wasted enough of my life doing that already.
 
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expos4ever

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This isn't my claim, this is the reality of the situation. If you don't want to know, then don't seek out the info. I'm so tired of always having to research for folks who don't want to do it themselves. I've wasted enough of my life doing that already.
I think you need to consider how this will look to a neutral reader. They will see you make a claim and then refuse to present the evidence to support the claim. Since you are clearly motivated to advance your position, your refusal to provide evidence leads to a very strong suspicion that you do not have any.
 
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sesquiterpene

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Astroqualia

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Absolute nonsense. These deaths due to Covid were excess deaths, people who would not be dead except for covid. The "died with covid" is a pernicious falsehood. And yes, you can look that up.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
Not at all. Look at NY and other states' desires to presumptively attribute folks who negatively tested or weren't tested for covid at all as covid deaths who shared any symptoms commonly cited as covid symptoms.

New York to start reporting 'probable' coronavirus deaths to CDC

How are COVID-19 deaths counted? It’s complicated

"Last April, Deborah Birx, MD, coordinator of the White House Coronavirus Task Force, said this when asked about people who have COVID-19 but die from preexisting conditions: “If someone dies with COVID-19, we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.”

"The CDC reports that in 94% of COVID-19 deaths, a person died with comorbidities. Those can be conditions a person already had, or ones that COVID-19 causes." Meaning, covid mostly kills people who already have issues that are threatening their health. This is why covid isn't very dangerous to actually healthy folk, and many of the deaths are seen in senior-age folk.

This was just a short time of searching around mainstream articles. Alt news articles like Crowder and others I've seen go into this moreso in depth.

Do hospitals get money for patients who die from COVID-19? | cbs8.com

Yes, hospitals do get paid more for more covid cases.
 
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sesquiterpene

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Not at all. Look at NY and other states' desires to presumptively attribute folks who negatively tested or weren't tested for covid at all as covid deaths who shared any symptoms commonly cited as covid symptoms.
You are simply repeating the same nonsense, so I'll just post the xkcd cartoon about the vaccine efficacy, because the exact same thing applies to the graph of excess deaths I linked in my previous post: it is immediately clear that there huge numbers of people were dying from Covid that otherwise wouldn't have died.
statistics.png

Statistics
Of course, the US wasn't the only country with excess deaths due to Covid: the data from the UK can be found here.
 
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grasping the after wind

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U.S. says Russian-backed outlets spread COVID-19 vaccine 'disinformation'
By Simon Lewis

2 MIN READ

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has identified three online publications directed by Russia’s intelligence services that it says are seeking to undermine COVID-19 vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna, a State Department spokeswoman said on Sunday.

The outlets “spread many types of disinformation, including about both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, as well as international organizations, military conflicts, protests, and any divisive issue that they can exploit,” the spokeswoman said.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) first reported on the identification of the alleged campaign on Sunday. A Kremlin spokesman denied the U.S. claim Russia was spreading false information about vaccines to the WSJ.

U.S. says Russian-backed outlets spread COVID-19 vaccine 'disinformation'

Either the US or perhaps just the article is rather vague about what disinformation was being spread. It seems to me that if there is disinformation being spread we ought to know what it is specifically and there should be an effort to debunk it. If one doesn't know what disinformation is being spread how can one recognize it as being disinformation when it is further spread by secondary sources? As i am unfamiliar with he sources referred to in the article I doubt i would have come across such disinformation directly from one of those. So avoiding those sources altogether does nothing to curb any disinformation that one is trying to avoid when that disinformation is spread by other sources. One needs to know what disinformation is being spread in order to avoid believing it.
 
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Halbhh

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You can read and see how the deaths are counted for yourself. Remaining willfully blinded by how covid numbers are counted, and saying something like "well that's just how it is" is not good. We are being swindled by the satanic powers that be, and folks are just passively accepting of it. It's really sad, to be honest. These professionals just follow directions and orders from someone above them, and eventually you get to someone who is in a position of power who is working an agenda. Doctors and nurses learn from a book; from another human who wrote the book. They are no more inherently smarter or more qualified to decide anything than anybody else. They simply made different choices in life, and decided to pursue a specific vein of knowledge. It really surprises me that more folk don't realize that's how things are in this world.

Let me tell you something invaluable from my own person life experience.

It happened to me, once, long ago.

Paranoid ideas naturally grows by themselves by seeking out anything that might support the idea, and avoiding what will not -- automatically, without effort. It grows like....mold or mildew --

Increasing and increasing, over time.

The only way you can stop paranoia is to become aware of it, and then begin to try to challenge it by seeing first hand something you were paranoid about more closely -- going there in person up close and finding out.

First hand. Yourself.

To actually see the detailed real situation, the precise reality, instead of having an idea from a distance.

And prayer!
 
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Halbhh

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It seems to me that if there is disinformation being spread we ought to know what it is specifically
I very strongly agree with this -- it would be very helpful to know precisely at least some of the disinformation memes/false facts/etc, so that we could point one or more out.

I'll try to find out some of the actual instances.
 
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Halbhh

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Either the US or perhaps just the article is rather vague about what disinformation was being spread. It seems to me that if there is disinformation being spread we ought to know what it is specifically and there should be an effort to debunk it. If one doesn't know what disinformation is being spread how can one recognize it as being disinformation when it is further spread by secondary sources? As i am unfamiliar with he sources referred to in the article I doubt i would have come across such disinformation directly from one of those. So avoiding those sources altogether does nothing to curb any disinformation that one is trying to avoid when that disinformation is spread by other sources. One needs to know what disinformation is being spread in order to avoid believing it.

...I'm finding so many instances...

There's such a long history of Russian disinformation that instead of just 1 or 2 topics/times in search results, you get reporting on Russian disinformation from many topics and times.

Here's an interesting one from 2020 I thought you'd want to see -- a fake Marco Rubio twitter post meant to cause harm to national democrats who are lately more willing to confront Russia.

(See planted/fake Marco Rubio twitter post example at top of this article by going to the article link at bottom)
For the past six years, an obscure disinformation campaign by Russian operatives has flooded the Internet with false stories in seven languages and across 300 social media platforms virtually undetected, according to new report published on Tuesday by social media researchers.

The operation, named "Secondary Infektion" by researchers, has sought to spread pro-Russian propaganda around the globe by sharing fake tweets from U.S. elected officials and conspiracy theories about the coronavirus. And it attempted to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. Researchers say it will likely try to spread falsehoods tied to the November election, too.

Ben Nimmo, director of investigations at Graphika, the research firm that conducted the study, said in an interview that the specific culprit within Russia remains elusive.


"We don't know whether it was run by the government, or associated with the government, or a group who wanted to support the government," Nimmo said. "But the overall tone and context makes it clear that this was an operation which was trying to support the Russian government and attack and undermine its critics."

Security officials at Facebook first identified the campaign last May, and since then, the tech giant and other platforms have been working to block the campaign. But it is so decentralized that it is still operating, though researchers say since it was exposed, the group's activity has slowed.
...(continues)
Study Exposes Russia Disinformation Campaign That Operated In The Shadows For 6 Years

We both can get that any one report like this is going to be just...sorta like the tip of an iceberg, @grasping the after wind ,
where we are only looking at one we found.
 
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Astroqualia

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...I'm finding so many instances...

There's such a long history of Russian disinformation that instead of just 1 or 2 topics/times in search results, you get reporting on Russian disinformation from many topics and times.

Here's an interesting one from 2020 I thought you'd want to see -- a fake Marco Rubio twitter post meant to cause harm to national democrats who are lately more willing to confront Russia.

(See planted/fake Marco Rubio twitter post example at top of this article by going to the article link at bottom)
For the past six years, an obscure disinformation campaign by Russian operatives has flooded the Internet with false stories in seven languages and across 300 social media platforms virtually undetected, according to new report published on Tuesday by social media researchers.

The operation, named "Secondary Infektion" by researchers, has sought to spread pro-Russian propaganda around the globe by sharing fake tweets from U.S. elected officials and conspiracy theories about the coronavirus. And it attempted to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. Researchers say it will likely try to spread falsehoods tied to the November election, too.

Ben Nimmo, director of investigations at Graphika, the research firm that conducted the study, said in an interview that the specific culprit within Russia remains elusive.


"We don't know whether it was run by the government, or associated with the government, or a group who wanted to support the government," Nimmo said. "But the overall tone and context makes it clear that this was an operation which was trying to support the Russian government and attack and undermine its critics."

Security officials at Facebook first identified the campaign last May, and since then, the tech giant and other platforms have been working to block the campaign. But it is so decentralized that it is still operating, though researchers say since it was exposed, the group's activity has slowed.
...(continues)
Study Exposes Russia Disinformation Campaign That Operated In The Shadows For 6 Years

We both can get that any one report like this is going to be just...sorta like the tip of an iceberg, @grasping the after wind ,
where we are only looking at one we found.
It isn't about paranoia, it's about what's true.

False claims of paranoia are not valid. This post I quoted could be called paranoid.
 
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Halbhh

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It isn't about paranoia, it's about what's true.

False claims of paranoia are not valid. This post I quoted could be called paranoid.

There are of course some actual conspiracies, and many that are just imagined.

If you are lucky, you can find out first hand.

Real example --

In this thread from April 2020, in post #2 a popular conspiracy theory --

"Across the city, hospitals are overrun...."

But I was lucky in this instance.

I lived in a densely packed suburb of one of the Covid hotspots.

Myself.

So, I didn't have to guess whether the report of hospitals getting a lot of Covid patients was true or just a conspiracy of the news media....

Because I -- myself -- had been witnessing, first hand, something new and frightening.

Here where I've lived over 8 years, I can reliably expect that I will hear about 1-2 ambulance sirens per day because of the major boulevard a block and a half away.

Every day you can hear a siren here. 1 or 2, and less common would be 3 or zero. It's because the area is so densely populated and the ambulance stating not far away. It's very reliable.

And I had 8 years of data.

So... April 2020 came, and the sirens started to increase.

Until they were almost constant(!) -- if you stepped outdoors so you could hear sirens both near and the far. Anytime you went outside.

It's hard to describe how shocking that was -- to hear almost constant sirens, so that there were 20 or 30 siren events in a day.

From 2, maybe 3 in a day, to almost constant sirens.

It was chilling, frightening on one level.

Though I did feel safe. I trust in the Lord.

So, see, I knew then the local news channels reporting here about our hospitals filling up at that time with Covid patients were telling the truth fully.

I heard it happening.
 
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sesquiterpene

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Either the US or perhaps just the article is rather vague about what disinformation was being spread. It seems to me that if there is disinformation being spread we ought to know what it is specifically and there should be an effort to debunk it.
As far as vaccine misinformation goes, I don't think we actually need to look at Russia for a cause. We have some home-grown (US) skillful propagandists such as RFK, jr and Del Bigtree who don't seem to care whether what they say is true.

And as far as identifying individual misinformation memes - well, the evidence basis for the Covid is so strong that you can pretty much dismiss any negative info as misinformation - there are a couple of side effects such as rare blood clotting issues and rare anaphylaxis that have been accurately portrayed at the CDC and many mainstream media outlets. Anything outside of this is fair game for fact-checking.

If you want examples of vaccine misinformation, the comments sections of Facebook sites of the Gates Foundation, WHO, UNICEF, and any of your local public health departments will provide a nauseating plethora of examples.

For a couple websites countering specific vaccine misinformation, you could try:
Science-Based Medicine
Respectful Insolence

But I think it is more rewarding to read websites that simply provide accurate information rather than focusing on why misinformation is wrong. My favorite site for this during the pandemic is this one, with a very scientific approach:
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/
and there is always the CDC.
 
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grasping the after wind

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As far as vaccine misinformation goes, I don't think we actually need to look at Russia for a cause. We have some home-grown (US) skillful propagandists such as RFK, jr and Del Bigtree who don't seem to care whether what they say is true.

And as far as identifying individual misinformation memes - well, the evidence basis for the Covid is so strong that you can pretty much dismiss any negative info as misinformation - there are a couple of side effects such as rare blood clotting issues and rare anaphylaxis that have been accurately portrayed at the CDC and many mainstream media outlets. Anything outside of this is fair game for fact-checking.

If you want examples of vaccine misinformation, the comments sections of Facebook sites of the Gates Foundation, WHO, UNICEF, and any of your local public health departments will provide a nauseating plethora of examples.

For a couple websites countering specific vaccine misinformation, you could try:
Science-Based Medicine
Respectful Insolence

But I think it is more rewarding to read websites that simply provide accurate information rather than focusing on why misinformation is wrong. My favorite site for this during the pandemic is this one, with a very scientific approach:
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/
and there is always the CDC.


We are discussing Russian efforts at disinformation so i would like to know what the Russsians have been spreading yet the article doesn't tell us. If i were a skeptical person I might think the author of the article doesn't know what disinformation the Russians are spreading and can't actually substantiate that they are spreading disinformation. Is the author simply taking someone's word that the Russians are spreading disinformation on the subject or does the author know what disinformation they are spreading and simply doesn't have the desire to debunk it?
 
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Halbhh

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We are discussing Russian efforts at disinformation so i would like to know what the Russsians have been spreading yet the article doesn't tell us
If you don't mind me asking, what did you think though of the Russian generated fake Senator Rubio tweet I posted about above? It stood out.

Also, are you already aware that Russian disinformation is very extensive over the years? (if you're not aware of that, then please tell me if you'd like to see some examples to prove it)
 
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