8 shot dead and several gunshot injuries at Fed-Ex facilities

....who writes this legislation?

Under Indiana’s red-flag measure, authorities have two weeks after seizing a gun to go before a judge. But a red-flag case can stretch months as the person who lost the firearm makes their own case, Marion County Prosecutor Ryan Mears told a local news station last February. During that time, the person can buy another gun — a “loophole” that Mears urged lawmakers to fix.

“There is nothing preventing a person from purchasing, using or borrowing a firearm from someone else while their case is pending,” Mears told Fox 59 last year. “The law only applies to the dangerous firearm the person had access to when the officer interacted with them.”

A person who knew Hole said he had suffered from mental illness and said he did not get the treatment he needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/17/fedex-shooting-indianapolis/

98cwitr said:

Single parent homes is a good metric to start with....a bit broad, but most mass shooters come from them.

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It largely seems to be about mental illness in young adults recently, at least in the states. Almost always males, almost always under 25. They never say what psychiatric drugs this person was on, because they don't want you to blame pharmaceuticals, but rather blame the inanimate object used, for their own purposes. We have all heard the disclaimers in the ubiquitous nonsensical drug pushing ads that spam television nonstop, that side effects could include wanting to harm self or others.

We need to pull the curtain back there. The guns aren't the problem. Everyone in my generation grew up with guns in the home, as our Dads were vets and hunters. We didn't shoot anyone. What has changed. That's where the problem is.

RestoreTheJoy said:

It largely seems to be about mental illness in young adults recently, at least in the states. Almost always males, almost always under 25. They never say what psychiatric drugs this person was on, because they don't want you to blame pharmaceuticals, but rather blame the inanimate object used, for their own purposes. We have all heard the disclaimers in the ubiquitous nonsensical drug pushing ads that spam television nonstop, that side effects could include wanting to harm self or others.

We need to pull the curtain back there. The guns aren't the problem. Everyone in my generation grew up with guns in the home, as our Dads were vets and hunters. We didn't shoot anyone. What has changed. That's where the problem is.

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His mother called police who eventually took his shotgun away under the state’s “red flag” law that was so poorly written that it didn’t keep him from buying two AR-15’s that he used in his attack.

By providing unregulated access to AK-15 style weapons, Republicans have re-interpreted the 2nd Amendment to guarantee that every disturbed individual in America has the constitutional right to become a potential mass-shooter!

jgarden said:

By providing unregulated access to AK-15 style weapons, Republicans have re-interpreted the 2nd Amendment to guarantee that every disturbed individual in America has the constitutional right to become a potential mass-shooter!

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AK-15? is this satire?

Pommer said:

His mother called police who eventually took his shotgun away under the state’s “red flag” law that was so poorly written that it didn’t keep him from buying two AR-15’s that he used in his attack.

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So, she tried. Perhaps he should have been taken in to be evaluated since he was a danger to self and/or others (not sure how that works, but I am sure that it can be done).

At this point I feel like I can do little but mourn. Any conversation about shootings in these forums basically amounts to those of us who see in each tragedy a reason for the country to act to actually do something about this; and on the other side those who whinge that nothing can be done, this is just how it is, guns were created by God on the eighth day, and anyone who wants to fix the problem is evil because there is no problem to fix.

So what am I going to do? Repeat what has been said a million times in the last several decades only for it to not matter? No, I'm going to mourn. And I am going to keep being a citizen who wants his government to stop being complicit in mass murder, and will therefore exercise my vocation as citizen through the democratic process.

If you, the person reading this, are also a person of conscience--then I behoove you to do the same. The Public of this country needs conscience, and we need to bring our conscience to the voting booth.

End Gun Violence Now.

-CryptoLutheran

RestoreTheJoy said:

Legal, registered gun owner? Or criminal?

More laws will do nothing to stop the latter.

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Nevermind, I guess I am going to repeat what has been said a million times already.

Ever notice that we don't have a continued problem of mass grenading? Ever wonder why that is?

Nobody thinks we can simply stop all bad people from getting weapons forever, 100%. That's not why we do something. We don't say, "Well, I guess people will still murder even if murder is illegal, so we should just legalize murder." You know why? Because that's dumb.

You know what making it harder for bad people to get guns does do? It makes it harder for bad people to get guns, that's what.

-CryptoLutheran

When officers searched his bedroom last year after his mother called about his threat of suicide, Hole urged the officers to shut down his computer and ignore his online activity.

“Please just turn the power strip off on my computer,” he said to the officers who showed up at his house in March 2020, according to a police report released Monday. “I don’t want anyone to see what’s on it.”

An officer who reviewed the computer “observed what through his training and experience indicated was white supremacist websites,” the report said.

The FBI followed up with Hole in April 2020, but federal investigators found no evidence of racially motivated violent extremism or criminal activity, FBI Indianapolis Special Agent in Charge Paul Keenan said in a statement to CNN.

Is it not time for Federal level Red Flag laws with teeth?

Can we agree that individuals such as this young man should not be allowed to purchase weapons until he is cleared by mental health professionals to do so?

ViaCrucis said:

Nevermind, I guess I am going to repeat what has been said a million times already.

Ever notice that we don't have a continued problem of mass grenading? Ever wonder why that is?

Nobody thinks we can simply stop all bad people from getting weapons forever, 100%. That's not why we do something. We don't say, "Well, I guess people will still murder even if murder is illegal, so we should just legalize murder." You know why? Because that's dumb.

You know what making it harder for bad people to get guns does do? It makes it harder for bad people to get guns, that's what.

-CryptoLutheran

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Agreed.

I've heard lots of the libertarian/freedom type arguments time and time again. In theory, I agree with a lot of them.

And yet, I live in a country where gun control works.

There is an attitude that because something can't be 100pc wiped out, there's no point at all in trying. A lot of this comes from attitudes that the world should be a certain way, rather than choosing to see the world as it actually is.

I'm sure I'll get some kind of pushback of the 'but what if we need to have an uprising' type response, but the last few years have shown how utterly incapable those sorts of people are at handling actual, serious crises.

ViaCrucis said:

At this point I feel like I can do little but mourn. Any conversation about shootings in these forums basically amounts to those of us who see in each tragedy a reason for the country to act to actually do something about this; and on the other side those who whinge that nothing can be done, this is just how it is, guns were created by God on the eighth day, and anyone who wants to fix the problem is evil because there is no problem to fix.

So what am I going to do? Repeat what has been said a million times in the last several decades only for it to not matter? No, I'm going to mourn. And I am going to keep being a citizen who wants his government to stop being complicit in mass murder, and will therefore exercise my vocation as citizen through the democratic process.

If you, the person reading this, are also a person of conscience--then I behoove you to do the same. The Public of this country needs conscience, and we need to bring our conscience to the voting booth.

End Gun Violence Now.

-CryptoLutheran

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This is where I have a lot of faith in Generation Z. They spent their childhoods having active shooter drills in school if not an actual active shooter. I think there is going to be a real push for gun control from them. And I’m not going to be surprised if the ammosexual threat of “You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hands” that Generation Z won’t just respond with “Your proposal is acceptable.”

If you cherish your guns you best start placing some gun control laws in place now because if it’s all or nothing for you, the next generation is going to guarantee it will be nothing. And if you think you can take your firearm toe to toe with the US Military, just know that you might leave a scratch but your family is going to have to pick up what’s left of you with a sponge.

GreatLakes4Ever said:

Generation Z

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[aside]
A friend of mind uses a term I like: iGen.
[/aside]

ViaCrucis said:

Nevermind, I guess I am going to repeat what has been said a million times already.

Ever notice that we don't have a continued problem of mass grenading? Ever wonder why that is?

Nobody thinks we can simply stop all bad people from getting weapons forever, 100%. That's not why we do something. We don't say, "Well, I guess people will still murder even if murder is illegal, so we should just legalize murder." You know why? Because that's dumb.

You know what making it harder for bad people to get guns does do? It makes it harder for bad people to get guns, that's what.

-CryptoLutheran

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This post reminded me of this video.

Triumvirate said:

This post reminded me of this video.

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I'm a big fan of his YouTube channel.

-CryptoLutheran

Triumvirate said:

Agreed.

I've heard lots of the libertarian/freedom type arguments time and time again. In theory, I agree with a lot of them.

And yet, I live in a country where gun control works.

There is an attitude that because something can't be 100pc wiped out, there's no point at all in trying. A lot of this comes from attitudes that the world should be a certain way, rather than choosing to see the world as it actually is.

I'm sure I'll get some kind of pushback of the 'but what if we need to have an uprising' type response, but the last few years have shown how utterly incapable those sorts of people are at handling actual, serious crises.

Click to expand...

It doesn't help that due to the influence of Dispensationalist theology on American Evangelicalism (and the tremendous political power of the modern Evangelical Right), that there is a persistent idea since the world is going to get worse and worse and worse, and since we can't actually make a utopian society here, that there's nothing we can do to improve anything. If it's the "end times" anyway, and things are only going to get worse, and since any form of state welfare is inextricably connected with "globalism", and thus some future "one world government" ruled by the Antichrist--the only thing Christians can do is try and get as many people "saved" before "the rapture".

So why bother planting a tree?

If we can't perfectly, 100% stop X from happening, then doing anything about X is pointless. Additionally, if one believes that doing anything about it is part of a clandestine diabolical plot to usher in the reign of the antichrist, then it must be resisted all the more.

Ergo, since we can't stop bad people from getting guns perfectly, we shouldn't try; and those who want to introduce stricter regulations and laws concerning firearms are perceived as the "enemy other" who is on the side of "the world" and therefore at the very least complicit in the work of the devil, then all attempts must be resisted. It therefore becomes a black and white morality, not in regard to human life, but instead "religious liberty"; where a restriction on guns ultimately means a satanic attack on Christianity and Christians themselves, thus feeding into the persecution complex prevalent among many right-wing Evangelicals--because the leadership in their churches have been telling them these things for decades.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

It doesn't help that due to the influence of Dispensationalist theology on American Evangelicalism (and the tremendous political power of the modern Evangelical Right), that there is a persistent idea since the world is going to get worse and worse and worse, and since we can't actually make a utopian society here, that there's nothing we can do to improve anything. If it's the "end times" anyway, and things are only going to get worse, and since any form of state welfare is inextricably connected with "globalism", and thus some future "one world government" ruled by the Antichrist--the only thing Christians can do is try and get as many people "saved" before "the rapture".

So why bother planting a tree?

If we can't perfectly, 100% stop X from happening, then doing anything about X is pointless. Additionally, if one believes that doing anything about it is part of a clandestine diabolical plot to usher in the reign of the antichrist, then it must be resisted all the more.

Ergo, since we can't stop bad people from getting guns perfectly, we shouldn't try; and those who want to introduce stricter regulations and laws concerning firearms are perceived as the "enemy other" who is on the side of "the world" and therefore at the very least complicit in the work of the devil, then all attempts must be resisted. It therefore becomes a black and white morality, not in regard to human life, but instead "religious liberty"; where a restriction on guns ultimately means a satanic attack on Christianity and Christians themselves, thus feeding into the persecution complex prevalent among many right-wing Evangelicals--because the leadership in their churches have been telling them these things for decades.

-CryptoLutheran

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The incoherence of being given dominion over something in order to do precisely nothing to protect it, even temporarily, seems a bit....well, call it burying your talent in the ground on a planetary scale.

There are few ideas more evil than the notion that Christ is coming back 'AnY dAy NoW' so may as well not bother.

For those of us that do not believe in that sort of Left Behind fan fiction, they could at least do us the courtesy of not obstructing measures that would make life a little better in the mean time.

This is also why I like the Innuendo Studios video, however. They think society can be changed just fine. They just aren't willing to do anything that might make them less influential, even while children in schools bleed out from gunshot wounds.

Triumvirate said:

The incoherence of being given dominion over something in order to do precisely nothing to protect it, even temporarily, seems a bit....well, call it burying your talent in the ground on a planetary scale.

There are few ideas more evil than the notion that Christ is coming back 'AnY dAy NoW' so may as well not bother.

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The irony is that historic Christian eschatology, of the belief of Christ's return, the resurrection, and the hope of the future age was a foundational principle of Christian ethics and Church praxis. It's the reason why hospitals, universities, welfare programs, etc were major components of the Christian secular ethos (secular in the sense of ethics as pertaining to life in the present world). As far back as the 2nd century St. Justin, one of the foremost Christian writers of the 2nd century, says that the Church is to be that people who, as written in the book of the prophet Isaiah, "beat their swords into plowshares, and spears into pruning shears, no longer knowing the art of war"; that the promise of the peace and justice of the future age is birthed here in the present through that people who are part of Christ's heavenly kingdom here on earth.

It's why the Lord's Prayer says, "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven", it is the petition of the invasion of God into our present world even as we wait for that future one. Jesus called the turmoil of the present age--wars, rumors of wars, famines, disease, natural disasters, etc--as "birth pangs", the labor pains of a present world suffering from which emerges that future world.

Christian mission in the world to be a people of hope, anticipating that which we hope for and, right now, living that hope into the present by bearing the fruit of that age in this age. To beat our swords into plowshares, spears into pruning shears, turning the other cheek, forgiving our enemy, carrying our cross of discipleship in imitation and the following of Jesus as He continues to minister and serve the world through His Church.

It's an eschatology of hope and resurrection, rather than an eschatology of hopelessness and escapism.

For those of us that do not believe in that sort of Left Behind fan fiction, they could at least do us the courtesy of not obstructing measures that would make life a little better in the mean time.

This is also why I like the Innuendo Studios video, however. They think society can be changed just fine. They just aren't willing to do anything that might make them less influential, even while children in schools bleed out from gunshot wounds.

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I don't know much about the person behind the channel, only that I have found their videos immensely insightful; providing much needed rational language to help sieve through all the blustery you-know-what.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

I don't know much about the person behind the channel, only that I have found their videos immensely insightful; providing much needed rational language to help sieve through all the blustery you-know-what.

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Having veered in the alt-right's direction a few years prior, I discovered that channel long after I started pulling away from it. But it does help set out some of the thought patterns people in those environments fall prey to, and I recognised a lot of it. Definitely was a nice sanity check, and helped strengthen my recovery.

ViaCrucis said:

At this point I feel like I can do little but mourn. Any conversation about shootings in these forums basically amounts to those of us who see in each tragedy a reason for the country to act to actually do something about this; and on the other side those who whinge that nothing can be done, this is just how it is, guns were created by God on the eighth day, and anyone who wants to fix the problem is evil because there is no problem to fix.

So what am I going to do? Repeat what has been said a million times in the last several decades only for it to not matter? No, I'm going to mourn. And I am going to keep being a citizen who wants his government to stop being complicit in mass murder, and will therefore exercise my vocation as citizen through the democratic process.

If you, the person reading this, are also a person of conscience--then I behoove you to do the same. The Public of this country needs conscience, and we need to bring our conscience to the voting booth.

End Gun Violence Now.

-CryptoLutheran

Click to expand...

End ALL violence now. What the heck is wrong with people that we are getting to this place constantly? There is a definite mental illness and/or anti-authority problem that is much more pronounced than in former generations.