Animal Rights

Eftsoon said:

I'm a little confused by society's blithe dismissal of animal rights.

Animals clearly have an inner life.Their experience encompasses a huge range of subtle emotions. There are some scientists who believe that higher animals are capable of spiritual experience.

The animals we commonly eat are exceptionally intelligent, yet we subject them to untold miseries all for the sake of pleasure. The saddest thing is that people are aware of everything that I'm saying but typically reply that it 'tastes good', as if that justifies it. Well... they are aware that this doesn't justify it - the point is that they don't care.

God did not give us creation for us to torture and bend to our wicked will. When we brutalise sentient creatures we scar and wound our own souls. Think about it this way: How do you think God views our factory farms and slaughterhouses? As Christians we should be advocating for animal rights, but the animal rights movement is a tiny sect of Christianity.


Animals are much smarter than people realise, scientist says
Do Animals Experience Grief? | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

Click to expand...

The problem is, the Animal Rights people take it too far. Do you own a cat or dog? If we support groups like PETA or even the HSUS, we give them the ability to lobby legislators to ban having dogs and cats as pets. As far as those groups are concerned, dogs and cats are oppressed.

In regards to food animals. We are omnivores, and as such meat is a part of our diet. With the number of humans on this planet, we cannot hunt for our food anymore in the numbers it would take. Factory farming is a must.

Pretty sure you will disagree and that is okay, but do not make this a Christianity thing as animal rights isn't any sect of Christianity, at least not with the likes of Wayne Pacelle and Ingrid Newkirk.

Eftsoon said:

I'm a little confused by society's blithe dismissal of animal rights.

Animals clearly have an inner life.Their experience encompasses a huge range of subtle emotions. There are some scientists who believe that higher animals are capable of spiritual experience.

The animals we commonly eat are exceptionally intelligent, yet we subject them to untold miseries all for the sake of pleasure. The saddest thing is that people are aware of everything that I'm saying but typically reply that it 'tastes good', as if that justifies it. Well... they are aware that this doesn't justify it - the point is that they don't care.

God did not give us creation for us to torture and bend to our wicked will. When we brutalise sentient creatures we scar and wound our own souls. Think about it this way: How do you think God views our factory farms and slaughterhouses? As Christians we should be advocating for animal rights, but the animal rights movement is a tiny sect of Christianity.


Animals are much smarter than people realise, scientist says
Do Animals Experience Grief? | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

Click to expand...

Do you really think that chickens, rabbits, and fish have an inner life and encompass a huge range of subtle emotions? Have you actually been around these animals? How about squirrels, wild hogs, and wild ungulates? Why do you attach human qualities to them?

The animals we commonly eat, such as the above, are not intelligent by human stndards, and we do not "subject them to untold miseries all for the sake of pleasure." Animals raised specifically for food are raised and slaughtered as humanely as possible; it is against the law to do otherwise. Animals, birds, and fish that are hunted die as quickly and humanely as possible.

Genesis 9:2-4, "Every living creature of the earth and every bird of the sky will be terrified of you. Everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea are under your authority. You may eat any moving thing that lives. As I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. But you must not eat meat with its life (that is, its blood) in it."

So once the blood is removed we may eat any moving thing that lives. Should I believe God or you?

Eftsoon said:

I'm not a militant animal rights activist by any stretch, it's just blindlingly obvious that we are responsible for unspeakable horrors.

Click to expand...

You can call it what you want. You want to be a vegan, have at it, Not stopping you, but don't think your views should be shared by everyone.

Eftsoon said:

if we alter our dietary habits we could eliminate the need for factory farms altogether.

Click to expand...

Wrong. There are too many people on the planet to eliminate factory farms even with reducing meat intake. Maybe in an ideal world, it would work, but small family farms will not cut it anymore.

.

Eftsoon said:

If there almost certainly is we have a moral duty to abstain. The probability is enough.

Click to expand...

Your opinion is noted. I certainly disagree.

Eftsoon said:

There are absolutely vast tracts of unoccupied land the size of small continents in America.

Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if the size is the size of the United States. Family farmers cannot keep up with demand, even if that demand is reduced.

I love bacon and hamburgers...but the OP has a valid point. We as a society could try and make the suffering less for the animals we eat. I lived on a ranch for many years and those that say that pigs and cows don't have feelings, just have never been around them. One incident in particular stays with me. We had two cows that grew up together, when it came time to slaughter one, we callously just shot it, in front of the other. The wailing and anguish of the remaining cow will always stick with me. Even the calloused "old hands" were quiet, it was a heart wrenching experience. So even though I continue to eat meat, I eat less and try to fully appreciate the sacrifice that has been made.

Eftsoon said:

You haven't offered any ethical reason thus far why we should consume as much meat as we want when we want. I sincerely hope that your ethics are not based entirely on opinion.

I'm not sure that you read my post closely. If we reduce our meat consumption we can produce more humane living conditions for the sentient beings we eat. It is quite sad that this is a morally contentious issue.

If we switched from factory farms to less intensive methods, the result would be an increase in price and reduction in demand for meat. It is possible to maintain high output without producing inhumane conditions.

Click to expand...

Supply reduction increase prices but does not decrease demand for a product. It just decreases the number of those that can afford to buy what they would demand if they had the means. What you propose actually results in a situation where only the well off would be able to afford to eat meat. This would not be because of any moral or ethical decision on the part of the consumers but strictly out of an inability to afford it. If you are suggesting that there is a moral or ethical case to be made, then making that case to convince people to reduce their demand would be the correct solution rather than proposing an arbitrary decrease of supply to force people to comply with a moral or ethical stance they may not themselves subscribe to. I have made the decision to go about buying meat from local farmers and ranchers that i know so that I am aware how they are fed and how they are treated. I don't do this out of a sense of moral or ethical beliefs but for reasons of quality and health. I am fortunate enough to have enough financial resources, due to a lack of large debt, that I can afford the extra amount for meat. Not everyone is either as fortunate or has made as frugal decisions as I. If one puts less of a priority on the quality of food than I do and more on other things one will not wish to do as I do and one will prioritize spending one's money on things that I do not prioritize.

I used to be a huge meat eater. I loved hamburgers especially and had them multiple times a week.

Here's how I look at it. God gave us dominion over the earth. He gave Noah the okay to eat meat. He gave guidelines on what meats are clean and what aren't, which clearly shows that He is okay with us eating meat.

However, eating meat causes disease in humans and you have a decent chance of going to an earlier grave, because of it. Meat is an addiction, even an idol, especially in the American diet. Most restaurants have meat-first menus with scant vegetable sides. That's all well and good, it's personal choice.

We should strive to keep the temple clean (our bodies and the church), the dwelling of the Holy Spirit. Does meat keep you from receiving the Holy Spirit? No, but any thing in your life can be harmful spiritually; a distraction, a primary focus. Food is an indulgence that we relish in, to the point of excess.

I couldn't abide by it in my own life, so I went vegetarian.

I get what the OP is saying, that animals are intelligent. In a perfect sinless world, we would be living in harmony with them, not eating them, as God intended. That went out the window with the fall. And so it's each person's choice.

As Christians we should recognize that we're called to something greater and that the closer we get to God's original design, the better. I believe God knew that eating meat would shorten life through disease, but allowed it as a free will choice.

Those are my thoughts.

According to the Bible, God gave Man the animals for his use. And with the coming of Christ, we have the Savior choosing fishermen for his closest associates, helping them do their fishing, and also feeding people who came to hear him lecture...with fish!

There may be some uncertainty about what your appeal to us is exactly. Is it just to be more humane with the processing of meat products and the treatment of animals generally? Or is is concerned with which animals we eat?

I'm appealing for more humane treatment of animals overall. My main point is that we can begin by drastically reducing meat consumption. This would be a net benefit for creation as a whole.

Click to expand...

Understood.

Eftsoon said:

There are absolutely vast tracts of unoccupied land the size of small continents in America.

Click to expand...

Most of that land is unsuitable for raising livestock in the manner you’re calling for.

If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

Eftsoon said:

The meat industry is brutal and absolutely unacceptable. I'm not mandating veganism for everyone. We are quite capable of thriving without slaughtering higher animals.It is now possible for us to live a vegan lifestyle due to advances in dietary science.
Even if veganism isn't possible, we can and should eat less meat. Most of the food we produce is discarded anyway. if we alter our dietary habits we could eliminate the need for factory farms altogether.

This is at the heart of Christianity. It is issues like this where we can demonstrate God's love for creation. I'm not a militant animal rights activist by any stretch, it's just blindlingly obvious that we are responsible for unspeakable horrors.

Click to expand...

Has not fox hunting been banned in the UK?

Think I heard that somewhere, some progess, at least.

Tally ho, and all that.