AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

RBPerry said:

Your missing a few things here. First of all we consider our bible (KG, NIV, NAS, or whatever) God's inspired word. Who put that together? The Catholics did, of course they left out big chunks that they didn't like, and added a few that we protestants didn't like, so we threw them out.
So the majority of orthodox Christians decided to keep Sunday as the day or worship, and yes there were a few that decided to hold on to the Saturday sabbath. The argument that Jesus kept the sabbath by teaching on the sabbath is understandable, that's when the Jews met, go figure.
Rome had a problem when Constantine became a Christian, or accepted Christianity. Rome had a large number of sun god worshipers and he wanted to keep them happy so he changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Many protestants say they worship on Sunday because that's the day Christ had risen. Now during the various counsels for the next 1500 years the Saturday sabbath never became an issue to the best of my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I studied that aspect Christian history.) Anyway, you would think if the Lord had issues with Sunday worship he would have dealt with it instead of waiting for the holiness movement to come alone.
Now if you are going to jump on the Eastern Orthodox ban wagon you better take a hard look at their theology. If I remember correctly the split was due to ecclesiastical differences, meaning the way the church was governed and organized, it wasn't about theology or certain dogma.(Again check me on that.)
Sure the Jews kept the Saturday sabbath, they also rejected Christ as the messiah.
So you can't claim the sabbath keeping has been unbroken, the orthodox church broke it in 300 AD.
I'll say it again, all these divisions of various denominations do nothing to strengthen the Christ church, it merely separates and confuses the average believer.

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Not sure I understand what you are saying. The Orthodox meet on Sunday to commemorate His resurrection (called Kyriake in Greek...the Lord's day). However, Sunday is not the Sabbath day in Orthodoxy. In Greek, Friday is still called the preparation day (Paraskevi). Also Saturday is called Sabbato (Sabbath) in Greek. We are also prohibited to fast on the Sabbath. This was one of the problems in the schism with the church of Rome. Our days also begin and end at sunset.

Saturdays and Sundays are never to be strict fasting days, except for Holy Saturday. Sunday is always the day of the Lord, reminding Christians of the Lord’s resurrection. Saturday also remains in the mind of the Church as the special Sabbath day, when God rested from his work of creation. The special standing of these two days of the week in the life of the Church requires that they not be days of mourning and strict fasting, even during the otherwise strict and long periods of Lenten fasting.

LoveGodsWord said:

Yes Yesh! That was my meaning being one with the RCC. Does the eastern orthodox churches keep the Sabbath? @RBPerry thinks you guys do not keep the Sabbath. Is that correct?

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The Sabbath is the 7th day in Orthodoxy. Sunday is not the Sabbath day in Orthodoxy.

Now that is a good way of skirting an issue.

Here again right from your own church.
iturgical cycles

• Sunday—Resurrection of Christ.
• Monday—The Holy Angels.
• Tuesday—St. John the Forerunner.
• Wednesday—The Cross and the Theotokos.
• Thursday—The Holy Apostles and St. Nicholas.
• Friday—The Cross.
• Saturday—All Saints and the departed.

Show me were you are referring to Saturday as the sabbath. You follow Catholic theology when it comes to Sunday keeping. You even stated in your statement above that Sunday is the main day of worship. I was unaware that you prohibit fasting on Saturday, that is interesting and would like to explore that tradition. Fasting is such a privilege we have if done properly and for the right purpose.
Also note he said the "orthodox meet on Sunday".

RBPerry said:

Now that is a good way of skirting an issue.

Here again right from your own church.
iturgical cycles

• Sunday—Resurrection of Christ.
• Monday—The Holy Angels.
• Tuesday—St. John the Forerunner.
• Wednesday—The Cross and the Theotokos.
• Thursday—The Holy Apostles and St. Nicholas.
• Friday—The Cross.
• Saturday—All Saints and the departed.

Show me were you are referring to Saturday as the sabbath. You follow Catholic theology when it comes to Sunday keeping. You even stated in your statement above that Sunday is the main day of worship. I was unaware that you prohibit fasting on Saturday, that is interesting and would like to explore that tradition. Fasting is such a privilege we have if done properly and for the right purpose.
Also note he said the "orthodox meet on Sunday".

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Excuse me? What am I "skirting"? Yes we commemorate the memorial of creation and all the departed on Saturday (the Sabbath) and yes we worship on Sunday, the day of His resurrection. I thought I explained that fairly well. Sunday is not the Sabbath day in Orthodoxy. Yes, fasting is prohibited on the Sabbath, Saturday.

As I said, in Greek, Friday is still called the preparation day (Paraskevi). Also Saturday is called Sabbato (Sabbath) in Greek. "Subota" is Saturday in Russian still.

"For Orthodox Christians, Saturday is still the Sabbath, the day on which the Church especially remembers the departed, since Christ rested in the tomb on Great and Holy Saturday."
Orthodox Study Bible

"...although Sunday is our day of worship, we Orthodox also keep the day of rest, which is on Saturday, the biblical Sabbath."
Abbot Tryphon

"For we are commanded also to honor the Sabbath equally with the Lord’s Day and to keep it and not to work on it"
Patriarch Michael Cerularius (letter sent during the 1054 AD schism)

LoveGodsWord said:

It's the eastern Church's. You may find this historical journal article interesting.

https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/AUSS/1963-1/1963-1-03.pdf

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Yes, this is from the Apostolic constitutions:

"Let the servants (of the Lord) work five days; On the Sabbath (Sabbaton) and the Lord's day (kyriake) let them rest for the church that they may be instructed in piety. The Sabbath because God Himself rested on it when He completed all the creation. The Lord's day because it is the day of the resurrection of the Lord"

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Excuse me? What am I "skirting"? Yes we commemorate the memorial of creation and all the departed on Saturday (the Sabbath) and yes we worship on Sunday, the day of His resurrection. I thought I explained that fairly well. Sunday is not the Sabbath day in Orthodoxy. Yes, fasting is prohibited on the Sabbath, Saturday.

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Then why does your iturgical cycles refer to Saturday as for all saints and the departed and the sabbath isn't mentioned. So why would fasting be prohibited on the sabbath? I find that very interesting.
What I meant by skirting the issue is you stated that the orthodox meet on Sunday. No one is disputing the Saturday is the sabbath. The issue is it wrong to worship on Sunday, and obviously the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox see no problem in Sunday worship. What I do like is you have a time of worship set aside for each day of the week, well need to follow that.

RBPerry said:

Then why does your iturgical cycles refer to Saturday as for all saints and the departed and the sabbath isn't mentioned. So why would fasting be prohibited on the sabbath? I find that very interesting.
What I meant by skirting the issue is you stated that the orthodox meet on Sunday. No one is disputing the Saturday is the sabbath. The issue is it wrong to worship on Sunday, and obviously the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox see no problem in Sunday worship. What I do like is you have a time of worship set aside for each day of the week, well need to follow that.

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Did you not read the quotes I gave? Saturday is the Sabbath in Orthodoxy. Jews do not fast on the Sabbath either. I never said Sunday is a problem. It commemorates the resurrection. We have done it for close to 2000 years.

While Jesus was prophesying the coming destruction of Jerusalem he said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" Matt 24:20

He was talking to His disciples, the teachers of His Church. If the Sabbath is done away with those are confusing words coming from our Savior. But thanks be to God that those words are not idle but alive. And you can bet your bottom dollar the Apostles and the disciples had it alive in them come that great and dreadful day and took heed to His Words.

Now the prophecy is twofold. It Speaks of the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple AND the Great tribulation prior to our Lord and Savior's second coming.

The Apostles asked in
Matt 24:3 ....."Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

So during this Great Tribulation prior to Christ's second coming let us pray that our flight not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath Day.

But Praise be to God that those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto us, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


To fully see this Let's now consider the Grammar along with the context. Verse 21 in Matthew 24 starts with the word "but". That connects it to verse 20. Verse 22 starts with the word "and". That connects it to verse 21 which is connected to verse 20. Verse 23 starts with the word "then" which connects it to what was previously stated also. As does the word "for" in verse 24. "wherefore" in verse 26 and the word "for" in verse 27 which speaks of the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior not the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The fact the above is true and so clear all can see should put an end to the Sabbath issue once and for all.
BECAUSE Jesus said pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day right up to the tribulation prior to His second coming. AMEN and praise be to God for His Word.

HIM said:

While Jesus was prophesying the coming destruction of Jerusalem he said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" Matt 24:20

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What could have been Jesus, reason that the flight not be on the Sabbath? What would have been different about fleeing on Monday? By the way, Jesus was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem. That advice would not have any reason to be given today. You don't have to worry, you are not living in Jerusalem.

He was talking to His disciples, the teachers of His Church. If the Sabbath is done away with those are confusing words coming from our Savior. But thanks be to God that those words are not idle but alive. And you can bet your bottom dollar the Apostles and the disciples had it alive in them come that great and dreadful day and took heed to His Words.

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What could the disciples and Apostles do if indeed the dreadful event would have come on Sabbath? You walk where you want on the old covenant Sabbath that was for Israel only. You drive your car where you want on that day. I presume you don't believe that is sinning.
what if you were in a city that the only way you could get out was through gates and because it was the Sabbath the gates were to be closed. It would not matter if a person was a believer in the Mosaic Law or if he/she were converted to Christianity and didn't observe days. Both would have been locked in those walls.

Now the prophecy is twofold. It Speaks of the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple AND the Great tribulation prior to our Lord and Savior's second coming.

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True, but only one destruction of Jerusalem.

The Apostles asked in
Matt 24:3 ....."Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

So during this Great Tribulation prior to Christ's second coming let us pray that our flight not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath Day.

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I ask again what is the difference whether it happens on Saturday or any other day? Question: Just where would you flee?

But Praise be to God that those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto us, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

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There certainly has been a bunch of those.

Bob S said:

What could have been Jesus, reason that the flight not be on the Sabbath? What would have been different about fleeing on Monday? By the way, Jesus was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem. That advice would not have any reason to be given today. You don't have to worry, you are not living in Jerusalem.

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He was also referring to his second coming which has not happen yet. Please notice below what The Apostles asked in
Matt 24:3 ....."Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

So during this Great Tribulation prior to Christ's second coming let us pray that our flight not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath Day.

But Praise be to God that those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto us, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


To fully see this Let's now consider the Grammar along with the context. Verse 21 in Matthew 24 starts with the word "but". That connects it to verse 20. Verse 22 starts with the word "and". That connects it to verse 21 which is connected to verse 20. Verse 23 starts with the word "then" which connects it to what was previously stated also. As does the word "for" in verse 24. "wherefore" in verse 26 and the word "for" in verse 27 which speaks of the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior not the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The fact the above is true and so clear all can see should put an end to the Sabbath issue once and for all.
BECAUSE Jesus said pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day right up to the tribulation prior to His second coming. AMEN and praise be to God for His Word.

HIM said:

The fact the above is true and so clear all can see should put an end to the Sabbath issue once and for all.
BECAUSE Jesus said pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day right up to the tribulation prior to His second coming. AMEN and praise be to God for His Word.

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Again, Jesus was referring to leaving Jerusalem. Are you not aware that Jesus is omnipotent? He knew that during the up-and-coming tribulation that man has nowhere to flee? Why pray for something that cannot happen?

Bob S said:

Again, Jesus was referring to leaving Jerusalem. Are you not aware that Jesus is omnipotent? He knew that during the up-and-coming tribulation that man has nowhere to flee? Why pray for something that cannot happen?

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NO, 3 questions asked.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

How do we know that Jesus' warning to pray that our flight not be in winter or on the Sabbath Day pertains to the tribulation at the end of the world before His second coming? By the words that He spoke. The words for, and, then, for, and for respectively are all connectives which connect verses 21-27 back to verse 20 where Jesus says to" pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day."
Now these would be wasted words if Jesus does not expect us to keep the Sabbath through out our time here, through the tribulation up until His second coming.



Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

HIM said:

NO, 3 questions asked.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

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It amazes me how people will put their own interpretation on something to make it fit their dogma, and that is exactly what you are attempting to do.
Want to have a reality check, if God had a problem with moving to Sunday for worship He would have dealt with it long before the so called great awakening that did nothing more than split the protestant churches up into a mess.
Mrs. White said she believed the canon was closed, however she seemed to accept the title of prophetess even thou she never claimed to be. Obviously she wasn't because she was wrong on many issues.
As Paul said, "all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." We have freedom in Christ and that is what most legalist just can't get.

ps: I prefer the NIV or New American Standard bible, the old King James is terrible compared to modern English.

RBPerry said:

It amazes me how people will put their own interpretation on something to make it fit their dogma, and that is exactly what you are attempting to do.
Want to have a reality check, if God had a problem with moving to Sunday for worship He would have dealt with it long before the so called great awakening that did nothing more than split the protestant churches up into a mess.
Mrs. White said she believed the canon was closed, however she seemed to accept the title of prophetess even thou she never claimed to be. Obviously she wasn't because she was wrong on many issues.
As Paul said, "all things are permissible, but not all things are profitable." We have freedom in Christ and that is what most legalist just can't get.

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Honestly, what amazes me is how anyone could come to the conclusion that Sunday is God's chosen day when our Savior personally came down from Heaven to write His will, His moral laws for us and He clearly wrote the Sabbath is His holy day. Exodus 20:8 The seventh day is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 I just don't understand how anyone could interpret this as the first day is ok with God, He even wrote REMEMBER which is the opposite of forget. His Ten are an eternal covenant and the Sabbath commandment is part of the Ten which is now written in our hearts in the New Covenant.

The disciples asked two questions:
24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us, they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

The destruction of Jerusalem being on one end of the prophecy. Then Jesus answered the second part of the question. The prophecy does not indicate Jerusalem being destroyed twice. And the first part does not indicate Jews had to observe the Sabbath. The law in which the Sabbath was spart ended at Calvary when the new covenant began. One more thing, Gentiles were never under the requirements of Sabbath observance. Where does it indicate they had to start keeping Sabbath under the new covenant?

imge said:

Honestly, what amazes me is how anyone could come to the conclusion that Sunday is God's chosen day when our Savior personally came down from Heaven to write His will, His moral laws for us and He clearly wrote the Sabbath is His holy day.

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I too, do not know how anyone could conclude that Sunday is Holy to God. Those who believe such a thing are believing a lie.

Our Savior didn't come down to write His will for US. He came down to write His will for the Israelites. This is in disputable. Ex 20: 2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. The Sabbath was a sign between Israel and God. No other nation on Earth was given this sign. It was exclusively for Israel. The new covenant does not require anyone to observe the ritual days that were part of Israel's obligation. Do as you please but why do you try to convince others that we have to keep a day that was exclusively for one nation? This is beyond my imagination.

Exodus 20:8 The seventh day is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 I just don't understand how anyone could interpret this as the first day is ok with God, He even wrote REMEMBER which is the opposite of forget. His Ten are an eternal covenant and the Sabbath commandment is part of the Ten which is now written in our hearts in the New Covenant.

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The Sabbath WAS the seventh-day. I don't see how you could interpret that anyone is under the laws of the old covenant. Just a few things to ponder: If the Sabbath is written on the hearts of man then why is it Sabbath observant churches have to spend millions trying to convert man. Shouldn't it be plain in our minds that we are to worship on a certain day? Shouldn't those who have come to the conclusion that they must observe a day be in harmony with each other. I presume, since you are a friend of a SDA on the forum, that you too are SDA and know about the Samoan situation. Wouldn't you think that God would have given the Samoans a heads up on which day is the real Sabbath?

Another conundrum, The Sabbath command was issued somewhere near Sinai, yet the weekly cycle of the seventh-day begins in the Pacific Ocean. Those Sabbath observers in New Zealand begin observance before those in Jerusalem. How do you explain that fact?


Question: SDAs believe God rests along with Sabbath keepers all over the World. Does that mean the Godhead rests for the 48 hours it takes to reach all observers?

imge said:

Honestly, what amazes me is how anyone could come to the conclusion that Sunday is God's chosen day when our Savior personally came down from Heaven to write His will, His moral laws for us and He clearly wrote the Sabbath is His holy day. Exodus 20:8 The seventh day is the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 I just don't understand how anyone could interpret this as the first day is ok with God, He even wrote REMEMBER which is the opposite of forget. His Ten are an eternal covenant and the Sabbath commandment is part of the Ten which is now written in our hearts in the New Covenant.

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Well imge, must be a lot of Christians that it didn't get written on their hearts. No one is saying Saturday wasn't the original sabbath. You want to live under the old covenant that is fine, many of us don't.
My all time favorite movie is Good will hunting. There is a scene in it were two men are debating, the genius and one of the college students. The genius final words were, "try thinking for yourself and not just regurgitate what someone else has said." That is some pretty good advice.
What the Adventist are saying is the Apostol Paul was wrong. I guess people like Bates, Andrew and Mrs. White thought they knew that Paul was wrong.
When I look at Adventist theology or lack of it, I can't imagine how anyone can buy into it, but that is just me. When I watch "Amazing Facts" on TV it amazes me some of the non sense he comes up with. Then I hear from family members, "well you just need to trust he knows what he's talking about." Really, well California is going to fall off into the ocean, so you want to buy some of my Arizona ocean front property.
Think I'll go have some pork chops and and some fermented grape juice.

RBPerry said:

Well imge, must be a lot of Christians that it didn't get written on their hearts. No one is saying Saturday wasn't the original sabbath. You want to live under the old covenant that is fine, many of us don't.
My all time favorite movie is Good will hunting. There is a scene in it were two men are debating, the genius and one of the college students. The genius final words were, "try thinking for yourself and not just regurgitate what someone else has said." That is some pretty good advice.
What the Adventist are saying is the Apostol Paul was wrong. I guess people like Bates, Andrew and Mrs. White thought they knew that Paul was wrong.
When I look at Adventist theology or lack of it, I can't imagine how anyone can buy into it, but that is just me. When I watch "Amazing Facts" on TV it amazes me some of the non sense he comes up with. Then I hear from family members, "well you just need to trust he knows what he's talking about." Really, well California is going to fall off into the ocean, so you want to buy some of my Arizona ocean front property.
Think I'll go have some pork chops and and some fermented grape juice.

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Citing movie quotes is not a convincing argument vs scripture.