AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

Freth · Apr 14, 2021

Freedm said:
That doesn't really address the issue. Yes, the former things will not come to mind, but with a free will one could always choose to gossip about another, or steal from another. Even if you love Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:52. Some translations say we are raised "incorruptible" but that doesn't mean what we think it means. The original Greek word here is aphthartoi which means "does not decay". He was referring to our bodies. That doesn't mean we can't still do wrong.

So again, I encourage you to really think about this. Use your logic. And don't just default to the "we will choose not to sin" answer because that's not logical, it's wishful thinking, and it's frankly lazy. It doesn't make sense. There must be another answer.

You are reading more into my post than what's there. Nowhere in my post did I say incorruptible means we can't sin.

Let's analyze my last post:

My first sentence, quoting the very verse that was below it.

1) The former things pass away and are no longer remembered.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

My second sentence, again, quoting the very verse that was below it.

2) We are remade incorruptible. This is not to mean we will not have free will.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.

My third sentence, the underlined sentence above, is the only sentence that wasn't a direct quote or paraphrased quote of scripture.

I said, "This is not to mean that we will not have free will."
You said, "That doesn't mean we can't still do wrong."

I think we're in agreement. Free will means you can do good or bad.

Let's analyze my post prior to my last post:

I said:

"God is not going to take away our free will."
"I doubt this means we will lose our free will after we're changed to incorruptible."
"The kingdom of heaven is not a place of sin. The new heaven and new earth will not be a place of sin. This in no way negates free will."

The rest of my post was dedicated to the necessity of obedience and scriptural quotes.

I think it's clear I said we will have free will. All created beings have the choice to obey or disobey our creator, at any given time. Otherwise, the angels would not have fallen from heaven because of disobedience.

Just so we're clear... What I was pointing to in the previous two posts is this:

The former things pass away.
- The desire to sin will be furthest from our minds, because we will be with Jesus.
- Sin is unlikely in heaven because we lived it on earth and never want to experience that again. Memories will fade, but the knowledge of what sin did to this world will not. We will love God and have no desire to repeat that scenario.
Heaven is a place of righteousness and holiness.
- Obedience on earth is stressed so much in scripture because it is a character builder for heaven. The saints keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12).

LoveGodsWord · Apr 14, 2021

RBPerry said: ↑ I have asked this question in the past, but I will ask again. Why would God wait 1500 years to let mankind know they were worshiping on the wrong day? Two part question. If He did, why didn't he tell the Catholics and other Sunday keeping protestants? Doesn't make much sense does it.

Responded to with...

LoveGodsWord said:
God did not need to wait as he has always had a people keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this very present day. Historically God's people have always kept the Sabbath from the days of Jesus to this present day. The Eastern Orthodox Church's for example were a part of the Romans Catholic Church's until the great schism in 1054 AD. They have continued keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this present day as well as other Christian groups.

Your response here...

RBPerry said:
Your missing a few things here. First of all we consider our bible (KG, NIV, NAS, or whatever) God's inspired word. Who put that together? The Catholics did, of course they left out big chunks that they didn't like, and added a few that we protestants didn't like, so we threw them out.
So the majority of orthodox Christians decided to keep Sunday as the day or worship, and yes there were a few that decided to hold on to the Saturday sabbath. The argument that Jesus kept the sabbath by teaching on the sabbath is understandable, that's when the Jews met, go figure.
Rome had a problem when Constantine became a Christian, or accepted Christianity. Rome had a large number of sun god worshipers and he wanted to keep them happy so he changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Many protestants say they worship on Sunday because that's the day Christ had risen. Now during the various counsels for the next 1500 years the Saturday sabbath never became an issue to the best of my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I studied that aspect Christian history.) Anyway, you would think if the Lord had issues with Sunday worship he would have dealt with it instead of waiting for the holiness movement to come alone.
Now if you are going to jump on the Eastern Orthodox ban wagon you better take a hard look at their theology. If I remember correctly the split was due to ecclesiastical differences, meaning the way the church was governed and organized, it wasn't about theology or certain dogma.(Again check me on that.)
Sure the Jews kept the Saturday sabbath, they also rejected Christ as the messiah.
So you can't claim the sabbath keeping has been unbroken, the orthodox church broke it in 300 AD.
I'll say it again, all these divisions of various denominations do nothing to strengthen the Christ church, it merely separates and confuses the average believer.

No nothing missed. Your original posts question was answered the first time.

Freth · Apr 14, 2021

Bob S said:
I really would not hang my hat on what Isaiah wrote in chapter 65-66. 65 tells us man will live to be over 100, babies won't die in infancy, and men that do evil will die before they reach 100. Is 66 tells us that indeed we will remember because we will walk amongst the dead carcasses and even see the worms eating away.

NOTE: These are direct quotes from three versions, including the title, which is found in all three.

The first reference is from Isaiah 65:20, which is speaking of the new heaven and new earth.

New Heavens and a New Earth

Isaiah 65:20 Amplified Bible—“No longer shall there be in it an infant who lives only a few days, Or an old man who does not finish his days; For the youth who dies at the age of a hundred, And the one who does not reach the age of a hundred Will be thought of as accursed.

Isaiah 65:20 ESV—No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah 65:20 NIV—“Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

The second reference is from Isaiah 66:24, which is speaking of the judgment. This is evident also in verses Isaiah 66:15-17.

Isaiah 66:15-17 Amplified Bible—For indeed, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots will be like the stormy wind, To render His anger with rage,
And His rebuke with flames of fire. For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all mankind, And those slain by the Lord will be many. “Those who [vainly attempt to] sanctify and cleanse themselves to go to the gardens [to sacrifice to idols], Following after one in the center, Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end together,” says the Lord.

Isaiah 66:24 Amplified Bible—“Then they will go forth and look upon the dead bodies of the [rebellious] men Who have transgressed against Me; For their worm (maggot) will not die, And their fire will not go out; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

Bob S · Apr 15, 2021

Freth said:
NOTE: These are direct quotes from three versions, including the title, which is found in all three.

The first reference is from Isaiah 65:20, which is speaking of the new heaven and new earth.

New Heavens and a New Earth

Isaiah 65:20 Amplified Bible—“No longer shall there be in it an infant who lives only a few days, Or an old man who does not finish his days; For the youth who dies at the age of a hundred, And the one who does not reach the age of a hundred Will be thought of as accursed.

Isaiah 65:20 ESV—No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah 65:20 NIV—“Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

The second reference is from Isaiah 66:24, which is speaking of the judgment. This is evident also in verses Isaiah 66:15-17.

Isaiah 66:15-17 Amplified Bible—For indeed, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots will be like the stormy wind, To render His anger with rage,
And His rebuke with flames of fire. For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all mankind, And those slain by the Lord will be many. “Those who [vainly attempt to] sanctify and cleanse themselves to go to the gardens [to sacrifice to idols], Following after one in the center, Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice, Will come to an end together,” says the Lord.

Isaiah 66:24 Amplified Bible—“Then they will go forth and look upon the dead bodies of the [rebellious] men Who have transgressed against Me; For their worm (maggot) will not die, And their fire will not go out; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

Freth said: ↑
1) The former things pass away and are no longer remembered.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

You entirely missed my point Freth. I referenced those verses from Isaiah's chapter 65-66 to prove Isaiah was not referring to the Heaven we are promised. We won't die at 100 nor will there be evil people that die early. He wrote in verse 17 that we will not remember, but in chapter 66 verse 24 he said we will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against God. Isaiah was doing some double talk. We will remember in 66:24 and we won't remember in 65:17.

I hope no one thinks I am discrediting the Bible by pointing out what seems to be an error. We have to remember the monks who transcribed and hand wrote again and again what we now have today could have erred in translation from the original scrolls. The plan of salvation shines through and we can be sure of that.

Freedm · Apr 15, 2021

Freth said:
You are reading more into my post than what's there. Nowhere in my post did I say incorruptible means we can't sin.

Let's analyze my last post:

My first sentence, quoting the very verse that was below it.

1) The former things pass away and are no longer remembered.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

My second sentence, again, quoting the very verse that was below it.

2) We are remade incorruptible. This is not to mean we will not have free will.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.

My third sentence, the underlined sentence above, is the only sentence that wasn't a direct quote or paraphrased quote of scripture.

I said, "This is not to mean that we will not have free will."
You said, "That doesn't mean we can't still do wrong."

I think we're in agreement. Free will means you can do good or bad.

Let's analyze my post prior to my last post:

I said:

"God is not going to take away our free will."

"I doubt this means we will lose our free will after we're changed to incorruptible."

"The kingdom of heaven is not a place of sin. The new heaven and new earth will not be a place of sin. This in no way negates free will."

The rest of my post was dedicated to the necessity of obedience and scriptural quotes.

I think it's clear I said we will have free will. All created beings have the choice to obey or disobey our creator, at any given time. Otherwise, the angels would not have fallen from heaven because of disobedience.

Just so we're clear... What I was pointing to in the previous two posts is this:

The former things pass away.

The desire to sin will be furthest from our minds, because we will be with Jesus.

Sin is unlikely in heaven because we lived it on earth and never want to experience that again. Memories will fade, but the knowledge of what sin did to this world will not. We will love God and have no desire to repeat that scenario.

Heaven is a place of righteousness and holiness.

Obedience on earth is stressed so much in scripture because it is a character builder for heaven. The saints keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12).

o.k. I don't think I misunderstood you. I know you said we will still have a free will, but that's why I said as long as we have a free will we can choose to sin. Yet you said there will be no sin because we will choose not to sin, did you not?

Freth · Apr 15, 2021

Freedm said:
o.k. I don't think I misunderstood you. I know you said we will still have a free will, but that's why I said as long as we have a free will we can choose to sin. Yet you said there will be no sin because we will choose not to sin, did you not?

Choose to sin, choose not to sin. Two sides of the same coin. The exercising of free will.

Freedm · Apr 15, 2021

Freth said:
Choose to sin, choose not to sin. Two sides of the same coin. The exercising of free will.

You said "The kingdom of God does not have disobedience...The idea that somehow we can sin freely and God will just shrug His shoulders flies in the face of scripture calling for obedience unto righteousness".

Do you still stand by that statement?

Freth · Apr 15, 2021

Freedm said:
You said "The kingdom of God does not have disobedience...The idea that somehow we can sin freely and God will just shrug His shoulders flies in the face of scripture calling for obedience unto righteousness".

Do you still stand by that statement?

"The kingdom of God does not have disobedience..."

Sin caused a war in heaven. Satan and a third of the angels were cast out. During the time of the war, there was indeed sin in heaven, but it was cast out. There is no mention of future disobedience in heaven, nor the new earth, aside from the judgment of the wicked that takes place after the thousand year reign of Jesus. I stand by this statement. The kingdom of God does not have disobedience.

"The idea that somehow we can sin freely and God will just shrug His shoulders flies in the face of scripture calling for obedience unto righteousness."

The idea (hypothetical) that somehow we can sin freely (in heaven) and God will just shrug His shoulders flies in the face of scripture calling for obedience unto righteousness (in the saints on this earth, in preparation for a sinless heavenly inheritance).

What would be the purpose of attaining holiness and righteousness as a standard for earthly Christians (saints) if not in preparation for heaven? We make that choice here on earth, which is why commandment keeping is so important.

If we think we'll be sinning in heaven because "we will have free will in heaven", we're sorely mistaken. No. God knows the hearts of men. If you do not love your creator and you do not choose him of free will out of love on this earth, you will not be in heaven.

The concept of earthly sin will become a faded memory and the same temptations that are here on earth will not exist in heaven whatsoever. There will be no reason to sin. And before you say, "Well, that's not free will then...", it sure is, because it's something you choose to do.

So again, just so it's clear. Yes, we have free will. No, heaven is not a place of disobedience, because it was cast out once, it can be cast out again, restoring obedience in heaven. I don't think sin will be an issue ever again. The conflict between Christ and Satan will be resolved and sin will be no more. We will obey God because we love Him and know the true scourge of what sin was on earth.

You're free to pick apart my post as you wish, but I'm done with this line of questioning. I've explained my position in detail. God bless!

RBPerry · Apr 15, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Responded to with...

Your response here...

No nothing missed. Your original posts question was answered the first time.

Well you need to do your homework as I did today. The Eastern Orthodox church maintains Sunday worship in the most part. They are basically Catholic. This is something also I didn't know about them, they only accept Konic Greek translations. What amazes me about that is there is no known complete bible documents that was written in Konic Greek. Also they have a service seven days a week, each day with a different emphasis. They don't even refer to Saturday as the sabbath.

You are still missing the point, no one is saying that Saturday isn't the original sabbath, what most of are saying it is obvious God doesn't care what day we decide to worship on. Paul made that very clear. That is why the Adventist have been labeled unorthodox by many theologians. That and all you other rules. I'm not putting that label on them, many others are.

Remember Paul said "all things are permissible, but not all are profitable."

Well, have fun, stay safe, and God Bless. I think I'm done with this thread, of course I said that before. I guess I'm still recovering from too many years of SDA.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 15, 2021

RBPerry said:
Well you need to do your homework as I did today. The Eastern Orthodox church maintains Sunday worship in the most part. They are basically Catholic. This is something also I didn't know about them, they only accept Konic Greek translations. What amazes me about that is there is no known complete bible documents that was written in Konic Greek. Also they have a service seven days a week, each day with a different emphasis. They don't even refer to Saturday as the sabbath.

You are still missing the point, no one is saying that Saturday isn't the original sabbath, what most of are saying it is obvious God doesn't care what day we decide to worship on. Paul made that very clear. That is why the Adventist have been labeled unorthodox by many theologians. That and all you other rules. I'm not putting that label on them, many others are.

Remember Paul said "all things are permissible, but not all are profitable."

Well, have fun, stay safe, and God Bless. I think I'm done with this thread, of course I said that before. I guess I'm still recovering from too many years of SDA.

Perhaps you may need to do a little more homework. The Eastern Churchs keep the Sabbath as well as Sunday and yes they do refer to the Friday evening to Saturday evening as the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment. I am happy to invite an Eastern Church person here to discuss this issue with you if your interested @Yeshua HaDerekh who is much better qualified than I am to discuss this with you if your interested?

RBPerry · Apr 16, 2021

Here is there worship schedule
iturgical cycles

Sunday—Resurrection of Christ.
Monday—The Holy Angels.
Tuesday—St. John the Forerunner.
Wednesday—The Cross and the Theotokos.
Thursday—The Holy Apostles and St. Nicholas.
Friday—The Cross.
Saturday—All Saints and the departed.

Notice, they do not refer to Saturday as the sabbath.
Invite who you wish, doesn't change the facts. Look it up for yourself.
The above days of worship come directly from their statements of faith.
They are basically Catholics with a different organizational structure.
Being Catholic they have accepted Sunday worship in 300 AD.
The spiritual reality of the sabbath was for man to have a day of rest, most of us believe God doesn't care what day we rest and worship.
Many believe the canon is closed, I'm not one of them but we have all been taught that the bible is the inspired word of God, and most of us accept that. If that is the case, your saying they missed something by not insisting of keeping Saturday as the day of worship, however they did not. If the Adventist beliefs are accurate, then the founding fathers of Christianity were not inspired by God but were merely men creating a bible, and that would change the whole ball game.

RBPerry · Apr 16, 2021

HIM said:
While Jesus was prophesying the coming destruction of Jerusalem he said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" Matt 24:20

He was talking to His disciples, the teachers of His Church. If the Sabbath is as you say those are idle words coming from our Savior. But thanks be to God that those words are not idle but alive. And you can bet your bottom dollar the Apostles and the disciples had it alive in them come that great and dreadful day and took heed to His Words.

It is so easy to pick a verse out of scripture attempt to build on it. You need to look at the entire chapter and actually chapter 23 as well. Jesus had just lowered the boom on the scribes and Pharisees in chapter 23. So why would Jesus say pray that your flight isn't on the Sabbath. What was the Jewish law regarding how far you could carry your mat on the sabbath? What I believe Jesus was saying is the Jewish law would hamper your flight on the sabbath. I don't see how you can use this as a endorsement for keeping only Saturday for rest and worship.

LoveGodsWord · Apr 17, 2021

RBPerry said:
It is so easy to pick a verse out of scripture attempt to build on it. You need to look at the entire chapter and actually chapter 23 as well. Jesus had just lowered the boom on the scribes and Pharisees in chapter 23. So why would Jesus say pray that your flight isn't on the Sabbath. What was the Jewish law regarding how far you could carry your mat on the sabbath? What I believe Jesus was saying is the Jewish law would hamper your flight on the sabbath. I don't see how you can use this as a endorsement for keeping only Saturday for rest and worship.

It's the eastern Church's. You may find this historical journal article interesting.

https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/AUSS/1963-1/1963-1-03.pdf

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
While Jesus was prophesying the coming destruction of Jerusalem he said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" Matt 24:20

He was talking to His disciples, the teachers of His Church. If the Sabbath is as you say those are idle words coming from our Savior. But thanks be to God that those words are not idle but alive. And you can bet your bottom dollar the Apostles and the disciples had it alive in them come that great and dreadful day and took heed to His Words.

RBPerry said:
It is so easy to pick a verse out of scripture attempt to build on it. You need to look at the entire chapter and actually chapter 23 as well. Jesus had just lowered the boom on the scribes and Pharisees in chapter 23. So why would Jesus say pray that your flight isn't on the Sabbath. What was the Jewish law regarding how far you could carry your mat on the sabbath? What I believe Jesus was saying is the Jewish law would hamper your flight on the sabbath. I don't see how you can use this as a endorsement for keeping only Saturday for rest and worship.

The prophecy is twofold. It Speaks of the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple AND the Great tribulation prior to our Lord and Savior's second coming. So during this Great Tribulation prior to Christ's second coming let us pray that our flight not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath Day.

But Praise be to God that those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto us, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
AMEN

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Bob S · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
The prophecy is twofold. It Speaks of the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple AND the Great tribulation prior to our Lord and Savior's second coming. So during this Great Tribulation prior to Christ's second coming let us pray that our flight not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath Day.

If I am not mistaken the gates to the city were to be closed on the old covenant Israelite Sabbath. The would be trapped in the city without any way out.

As to not being able to go more than a certain distance on the Sabbath, if they were believers, they would know that they were not under the laws of the old covenant any longer, they were free in Christ just as we are today. If they had been believing Jews they would have known in special cases the Sabbath requirements could be wavered. A good example is God leading the Israelites out of Egypt. They didn't stop to observe Sabbath until they were safely across the Red Sea. Then there is Jerico, eight days they circled the city disregarding the command because God told them to.

As to your proposal that the verse would indicate a double meaning, I don't buy that. That theory is nothing but a false claim from the SDA church. Do you have a plan as to where you will go? I have been all over United States and to find a "hideout" would be like finding hens teeth.

But Praise be to God that those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto us, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
AMEN

It is by their fruits that we can tell if they are genuine. After studying the writings of the prophets who have come and gone there are only the ones from the Bible I would put my trust.

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

Bob S said:
As to your proposal that the verse would indicate a double meaning, I don't buy that. That theory is nothing but a false claim from the SDA church. Do you have a plan as to where you will go? I have been all over United States and to find a "hideout" would be like finding hens teeth.

It is by their fruits that we can tell if they are genuine. After studying the writings of the prophets who have come and gone there are only the ones from the Bible I would put my trust.

Oh I did not know the SDA's taught this. Good!
Let's consider Grammar and context. Verse 21 in Matthew 24 starts with the word "but". That connects it verse 20. Verse 22 starts with the word "and". That verse connects it to verse 21 which is connected to verse 20. Verse 23 starts with the word "then" which connects it to what was previously stated also. As does the word "for" in verse 24. "wherefore" in verse 26 and the word "for" in verse 27 which speaks of the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior not the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Freth · Apr 17, 2021

On the subject of Matthew 24—There are some other clues that point to Matthew 24 as also applying to the end time.

In verse 3, the disciples ask Jesus about the sign of His coming and the end of the world.

Matthew 24:3 KJV And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Matthew 24:3 NKJV, Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?"

Regardless of which version you choose, they are clearly asking Him about the second coming. Further evidence below.

Verse 27 is clearly talking about the second coming.

Matthew 24:27 KJV For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Verse 28 references Revelation, which hadn't been given to John yet as Jesus was still on earth.

Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Also prophesied by Ezekiel about 600 years before Jesus.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God.

Verses 29-34 are most definitely talking about the second coming.

Matthew 24:29-34 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
The prophecy is twofold. It Speaks of the Destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple AND the Great tribulation prior to our Lord and Savior's second coming. So during this Great Tribulation prior to Christ's second coming let us pray that our flight not be in the winter neither on the Sabbath Day.

But Praise be to God that those days shall be shortened.
Then if any man shall say unto us, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
AMEN

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The fact the above quote is true and so clear all can see should put an end to the Sabbath issue once and for all.
BECAUSE Jesus said pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the Sabbath day right up to the tribulation prior to His second coming. AMEN and praise be to God for His Word

Bob S · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
Oh I did not know the SDA's taught this. Good!
Let's consider Grammar and context. Verse 21 in Matthew 24 starts with the word "but". That connects it verse 20. Verse 22 starts with the word "and". That verse connects it to verse 21 which is connected to verse 20. Verse 23 starts with the word "then" which connects it to what was previously stated also. As does the word "for" in verse 24. "wherefore" in verse 26 and the word "for" in verse 27 which speaks of the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior not the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The destruction of Jerusalem happened once and Jesus' warning about it happening on Sabbath was to that destruction. He issued other warnings. The verses do not tell us the destruction of Jerusalem will happen again.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Apr 17, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
God did not need to wait as he has always had a people keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this very present day. Historically God's people have always kept the Sabbath from the days of Jesus to this present day. The Eastern Orthodox Church's for example were a part of the Romans Catholic Church's until the great schism in 1054 AD. They have continued keeping the Sabbath unbroken to this present day as well as other Christian groups.

Hi LGW! We were not "part" of the Roman Catholic church...there was only one Catholic church at the time. The split occurred in 1054AD. Yes, Sunday is not the Sabbath day in Orthodoxy.

AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

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