Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

Danthemailman said:
I already explained what it means to “keep” (Greek word “tereo”) His commandments. What made you ask me if the door will be closed to me? I hear a lot of sugar coated double talk from SDA’s in regards to the 10 Commandments and salvation.

Yea it means guard. You know the commandments, His Laws, the word he has placed in our hearts and minds through Christ.

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
All of which was preserved by the Church. The one that persecuted and killed millions in the name of God? The Catholic Church.

I will stick with the Bible thanks.

The Christian Church, the one Jesus established, the one which gave you the Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The Christian Church, the one Jesus established, the one which gave you the Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

No they fell away. The organization of men always falls away. It has always just been a remnant in respect to God’s people

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
No they fell away. The organization of men always falls away. It has always just been a remnant in respect to God’s people

So you believe Jesus can't keep His promise? Please excuse me, but if I have to choose between believing you, or believing in the very word of Jesus Christ my God, I am going to believe Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
So you believe Jesus can't keep His promise?

-CryptoLutheran

He has, it however is not the Catholic Church.

BobRyan · Apr 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The Christian Church, the one Jesus established, the one which gave you the Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

God gave us the Bible.
the OT writers gave us the OT - and they were neither Lutheran nor Catholic
the NT writers gave us the NT - and they were neither Lutheran nor Catholic

No NT saint in the first century was sitting around waiting for another 200 years or more for someone to tell them what is in OT and whether or not to read the NT letters.

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

BobRyan said:
God gave us the Bible.
the OT writers gave us the OT - and they were neither Lutheran nor Catholic
the NT writers gave us the NT - and they were neither Lutheran nor Catholic

No NT saint in the first century was sitting around waiting for another 200 years or more for someone to tell them what is in OT and whether or not to read the NT letters.

No saint in the first century had a Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
He has, it however is not the Catholic Church.

I'm not talking about Rome. I'm talking about the Christian Church, the one Jesus Christ founded. And that Church very much is Catholic--it is Christ's one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Let me ask you this: Do you believe in the words of the Nicene Creed?

-CryptoLutheran

pasifika · Apr 17, 2021

Freth said:
You've participated in enough Sabbath threads to know that imge isn't saying this at all.

NOTE: The following is to all thread readers, not Dan specifically.

The grace of God is completely separated from any thing we do (Ephesians 2:8-9), so that God's judgment is just and true, according to the heart of the individual. This means if your heart isn't in it, God can and will remove His gift of grace (Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 3:14-19).

Iniquity will abound and the love of many will wax cold (Matthew 24:12).

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [And just what is the truth? The word. (below)]

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jesus is the bridegroom. You can't have a working marriage without love and commitment to the vows that bind the marriage together.

Matthew 22: The parable likening the kingdom of heaven to that of a king arranging a marriage for his son, we see that those who are invited to the wedding will not come. Instead they make light of the preparation for the wedding and go their own ways, doing their own things. They are not found worthy. So the king sends out his servants to invite people to the wedding, both good and bad. The wedding hall is filled, but the king finds some are not prepared, they are not wearing wedding garments (righteousness) and are cast out into the darkness. The last words of the parable cut to the heart of the matter, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 25: In the parable of the ten virgins, five wise virgins prepared with oil and trimmed their lamps. Five foolish virgins did not prepare. They asked the five wise virgins for some of their oil, to which they said, "No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go gather to those who sell and buy for yourselves." The five foolish virgins went out to buy oil. "And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut." When the five foolish virgins returned, they said, "Lord, Lord, open to us!" But He answered and said, "Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you."

Just what is this preparation of oil, this wedding garment?

Oil is a symbol of anointing, the Holy Spirit. Baptism. The renewal of life in Jesus, by which we receive the Holy Spirit.

Garment is a symbol of righteousness and holiness.

What standard begets righteousness and holiness and shows a renewal of life?

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. —Exodus 20:8

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? —Romans 6:16

Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. —Leviticus 20:7

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. —2 Peter 2:21

...remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God. —Numbers 15:39-40

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. —John 12:15

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. —Revelation 22:14

The Bible is chock full of verses telling us to keep the commandments of God, not out of selfishness or to be saved, but as a show of our true love and commitment to our bridegroom. Love for our creator, love for our God. The desire to do His will and not our own. This is the life we're called to, but of our own free will, of a true heart conversion. God knows the difference and Jesus knows the difference. The call is going out to bring Christians to the wedding hall. How many are wearing their wedding garments? How many have their lamps trimmed and with oil? Will the door be closed to you?

Happy Sabbath!

Hello Freth, you should also know that the 10 Commandments were given under a covenant and is important note who was that covenant was for..

if you want to show your love to God then believe in His Son ( Gospel) and loving others keep doing this and you will be fine..if you want to keep the 7th day sabbath then do it to the Lord and don’t judge others if they don’t..

the law of God is about doing good or love..as it says all other commandments are sum up this ONE command love your neighbours as yourself..

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
I'm not talking about Rome. I'm talking about the Christian Church, the one Jesus Christ founded. And that Church very much is Catholic--it is Christ's one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

-CryptoLutheran

No it is not they killed countless. And they still kill through their doctrine and their blind eye

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
No it is not they killed countless. And they still kill through their doctrine and their blind eye

Tell me, when Israel failed to live in accordance with God, did God abandon her? Has God ever abandoned His people ever once in history? Has God ever been faithless, even when we were faithless?

The answer to that is no.

To believe you I would have to believe that God is unfaithful.

-CryptoLutheran

HIM · Apr 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Tell me, when Israel failed to live in accordance with God, did God abandon her? Has God ever abandoned His people ever once in history? Has God ever been faithless, even when we were faithless?

The answer to that is no.

To believe you I would have to believe that God is unfaithful.

-CryptoLutheran

God has not abandoned his people, the body of Christ. Never will. The Catholic Church, the organization just ain’t it.

Freth · Apr 17, 2021

pasifika said:
Hello Freth, you should also know that the 10 Commandments were given under a covenant and is important note who was that covenant was for..

if you want to show your love to God then believe in His Son ( Gospel) and loving others keep doing this and you will be fine..if you want to keep the 7th day sabbath then do it to the Lord and don’t judge others if they don’t..

the law of God is about doing good or love..as it says all other commandments are sum up this ONE command love your neighbours as yourself..

"Love God, love others", is from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Jesus was quoting the Old Testament. Jesus said, "...on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." There is no new covenant without the law of God. "Love God, love others", was an Old Testament established fact when Jesus quoted it, not a New Testament revelation that swaps out the Ten Commandments in the new covenant.
History is repeating itself. Daniel 9:9-11, "To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him."

BobRyan · Apr 17, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
No saint in the first century had a Bible.

-CryptoLutheran

NT Writers like Luke said they did - Luke 24:27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the Prophets, He explained to them the things written about Himself in all the Scriptures.

They were not waiting a few centuries for Lutherans or Catholics to tell them what "all the scriptures" would be.

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

BobRyan said:
NT Writers like Luke said they did - Luke 24:27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the Prophets, He explained to them the things written about Himself in all the Scriptures.

They were not waiting a few centuries for Lutherans or Catholics to tell them what "all the scriptures" would be.

So Luke had the Bible, Old and New Testaments? How did Luke have books that were not yet written at the time?

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Apr 17, 2021

HIM said:
God has not abandoned his people, the body of Christ. Never will. The Catholic Church, the organization just ain’t it.

You keep going back to Rome, which I haven't brought up once. I've been talking about the Christian Church, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church of Jesus Christ, the one He founded. I'm not talking about Roman Catholicism. Though the Roman Church is, absolutely, part of Christ's Holy Catholic Church; but I'm not really interested in getting into that arena of historical debate currently.

I doubt that this trajectory will be in anyway fruitful, so if you permit me to do so, I'd like to go about another way:

Can you specify when the Church "fell"? I would like specific details, such as what precise dates, events, etc.

When exactly and what events in history can you specify to make such a claim? That is to say, what is your historical justification?

I'm not interested in you quoting to me your interpretation of the Bible and then saying that because Christians were believing X and doing Y, that is not in agreement with your interpretation of the Bible then that is evidence. That's not evidence, that's--at best-biased opinion. As such, I want objective data, matters of historical fact.

-CryptoLutheran

PaulCyp1 · Apr 17, 2021

The original Christian Church changed the day of communal worship from Saturday to Sunday because they rightly believed it was more fitting to gather for worship on the day of Jesus Christ's glorious Resurrection, than on the day He lay dead in the tomb. Many of the customs and beliefs of Judaism were not carried over into Christianity.

pasifika · Apr 17, 2021

Freth said:
"Love God, love others", is from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Jesus was quoting the Old Testament. Jesus said, "...on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." There is no new covenant without the law of God. "Love God, love others", was an Old Testament established fact when Jesus quoted it, not a New Testament revelation that swaps out the Ten Commandments in the new covenant.

History is repeating itself. Daniel 9:9-11, "To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him."

words is not the same as obedience...we can say we love God but our actions goes against our words...

Eg if you say you keep the 7th day Sabbath because you love God but then you show jealousy, or hatred towards others, or favours others more than others, or lying etc then your claims of loving God is just mere words, you also doesn't keep the 7th day Sabbath...

Anyone who claim to keep the whole law but stumble at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it..

The message of loving others is from the "beginning" this is the Gospel message..1John 4:11

Nathan@work · Apr 17, 2021

Freth said:
"Love God, love others", is from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Jesus was quoting the Old Testament. Jesus said, "...on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." There is no new covenant without the law of God. "Love God, love others", was an Old Testament established fact when Jesus quoted it, not a New Testament revelation that swaps out the Ten Commandments in the new covenant.

History is repeating itself. Daniel 9:9-11, "To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him."

The new covenant is not ‘with’ the law of God. The new covenant is the promise of God, not in addition to His law.

Galatians 4:22-31 (ESV) For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

1watchman · Apr 17, 2021

Albion said:
Hello, Glory. There was an extensive discussion here of this very issue not long ago. You may be able to find it with a little searching and have all that gathered together for you. Which of the CF forums it was on, I don't remember, but it wasn't the SDA home forum.

I don't know if that was one I spoke on, but I have addressed this subject a number of times; so I will just post my understanding of Scripture here briefly for whatever it is worth to a seeker. I hope many will also "search the Scriptures" as God enjoins us to learn these things.

Sabbath in general means 'rest', and that is what God told Israel to do; and that because He wanted them to remember His work in six days of creation of earth and man, and his rest from it (note Genesis 2). Israel needed to remember God's work of creation of earth and mankind on the seventh day ---our Saturday, show appreciation of it and "do no servile work" ---it honored God (note Genesis 2; etc.). The Israelite religion is set aside for rejecting their Messiah and killing Him (and will be restored by the Covenant made with a NEW generation as shown later in Revelation 7 yet to come on the "New Earth"). We are not called to rest or worship on their Sabbath, though we can appreciate God's creation of earth and man, etc.

The Church is a NEW creation spiritually with the new life we find in Christ; and He paid the price of our redemption by HIS WORK on the Cross ---allowing the Israelites to kill Him; those who rejected their own Prophets and developed a religion for themselves out of God's work. The Lord Jesus arose from death and asks us to remember Him on His resurrection ---FIRST day of the week (our 'Son-day') the WORK of our Redeemer. We live for Christ and not the typology of the Old Testament with such as animal sacrifices (types of the Christ). We are a "new" creation in Christ.

This is brief, but I hope it might help some seekers. -1watchman

Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

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