Thousands of vaccinated people sick, dozens dead

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essentialsaltes

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Oh, man...

Dr. Fauci taking money from Big "We The People". He's deep in the pockets of "We The People". He's likely to make decisions and considerations strictly for the benefit of "We The People".

Why were there no pharma lobbyists who could have been hired for this position?
 
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High Fidelity

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Doesn't the USA have a successful rollout? More than 4 million per day are getting it. Yet we're also being told that a "4th wave" of the virus is coming. So much for "rapidly dropping".

It takes at least 2 weeks for the antibodies to develop after the vaccine which offers around 60% immunity depending on which vaccine you have. However, it dramatically reduces the risk of hospitalisation, as much as 80%+ in the most at-risk groups, 85+.

Daily deaths are slowly decreasing.

About a month from now the situation in the U.S. should be drastically improved if things continue as they are.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Now that people are getting "vaccinated" with the substances that are authorized for "emergency use", and are considered to be "safe and effective", many have paid the price for getting the shots, while thousands more are facing a big disappointment--being infected with Covid, and even dying from it.

“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which is tracking these coronavirus infections that break through the vaccine's protection, told NPR on Thursday that the agency has so far received reports of about 5,800 breakthrough cases. No "unexpected patterns have been identified in case demographics or vaccine characteristics," the CDC says.

Though these sorts of breakthrough infections have been reported among people of all ages, a little more than 40% so far have been among people age 60 or older, according to the agency, and 65% of such cases have been among women. About 29% of those experiencing breakthrough infections experienced no symptoms, but 7% were hospitalized and 74 people died.”




The number of fully vaccinated in the US is just shy of 80 million people.

So for only 5800 breakthrough infections, and of those... 396 led to hospitalizations, and 74 deaths.

If the total number of fully vaccinated people was only 80,000...then these numbers would represent a pretty big disappointment.

But with a group of 80 million...

5800 = 0.00725% (nearly a third being asymptomatic)
396 = 0.000495%
74 = 0.0000925%


What about these numbers do you see as disappointing?

Nobody ever purported these vaccines to be 100% effective, the estimates for the two-shot ones was around 90-95%, and a bit less than that for the one-shot ones.

I'd say these numbers are actually very encouraging...especially considering the fact that we're nowhere near herd immunity yet.

To be able to boast those kinds of numbers (with regards to levels of protection) in an environment where 3 out of 5 people one encounters isn't vaccinated yet is actually quite impressive.

Once the the US hits the 60-70% fully vaccinated threshold, each of the 3 metrics will drop even further.
 
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Aldebaran

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“The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which is tracking these coronavirus infections that break through the vaccine's protection, told NPR on Thursday that the agency has so far received reports of about 5,800 breakthrough cases. No "unexpected patterns have been identified in case demographics or vaccine characteristics," the CDC says.

Though these sorts of breakthrough infections have been reported among people of all ages, a little more than 40% so far have been among people age 60 or older, according to the agency, and 65% of such cases have been among women. About 29% of those experiencing breakthrough infections experienced no symptoms, but 7% were hospitalized and 74 people died.”




The number of fully vaccinated in the US is just shy of 80 million people.

So for only 5800 breakthrough infections, and of those... 396 led to hospitalizations, and 74 deaths.

If the total number of fully vaccinated people was only 80,000...then these numbers would represent a pretty big disappointment.

But with a group of 80 million...

5800 = 0.00725% (nearly a third being asymptomatic)
396 = 0.000495%
74 = 0.0000925%


What about these numbers do you see as disappointing?

Nobody ever purported these vaccines to be 100% effective, the estimates for the two-shot ones was around 90-95%, and a bit less than that for the one-shot ones.

I'd say these numbers are actually very encouraging...especially considering the fact that we're nowhere near herd immunity yet.

To be able to boast those kinds of numbers (with regards to levels of protection) in an environment where 3 out of 5 people one encounters isn't vaccinated yet is actually quite impressive.

Once the the US hits the 60-70% fully vaccinated threshold, each of the 3 metrics will drop even further.

There's one factor you left out: Time.
5800 breakthrough infections so far. How long have the 80 million been "vaccinated"? Give it a year and see how many more breakthroughs there will be, and how many will die--both from Covid, as well as the shot to prevent it.
 
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expos4ever

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There's one factor you left out: Time.
5800 breakthrough infections so far. How long have the 80 million been "vaccinated"? Give it a year and see how many more breakthroughs there will be, and how many will die--both from Covid, as well as the shot to prevent it.
You are engaged in baseless speculation. Not only do you have no basis for your implied prediction, there is every reason to expect your implication will turn out to be incorrect.

You have been forced to concede that only a tiny fraction of those vaccinated developed Covid. So what do you do now? You speculate that this spectacular success will not last. Well, why would that be? The only plausible explanation would be variants that can evade the virus. Well, you are not making such an argument.

In fact, you are making no argument at all - all you are doing is speculating.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Only a disappointment to people who can't do basic math.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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You do realize that there are people who do this for a living, right? Decide how dangerous diseases are, and how they're spreading, and how they can be stopped, and how safe vaccines are? And you know they're not paid by pharmaceutical companies, right? Do you have any idea how public health actually works?

Don't you mean public sickness?
 
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Aldebaran

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You are engaged in baseless speculation. Not only do you have no basis for your implied prediction, there is every reason to expect your implication will turn out to be incorrect.

You have been forced to concede that only a tiny fraction of those vaccinated developed Covid. So what do you do now? You speculate that this spectacular success will not last. Well, why would that be? The only plausible explanation would be variants that can evade the virus. Well, you are not making such an argument.

In fact, you are making no argument at all - all you are doing is speculating.

I notice how you become defensive when something is pointed out to you that you don't agree with.
My assertion that we still don't know the long-term effects still stands valid. Sorry if it offends you.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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You are engaged in baseless speculation. Not only do you have no basis for your implied prediction, there is every reason to expect your implication will turn out to be incorrect.

You have been forced to concede that only a tiny fraction of those vaccinated developed Covid. So what do you do now? You speculate that this spectacular success will not last. Well, why would that be? The only plausible explanation would be variants that can evade the virus. Well, you are not making such an argument.

In fact, you are making no argument at all - all you are doing is speculating.
It is good to hear the left finally showing so much confidence and support for the Trump vaccine. But it is also strange that so many on the right are now skeptical.
 
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Larniavc

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I don't think that's happening in any country. There is no "vaccine". None have been approved by the FDA as a vaccine. They've only been approved with an emergency use authorization.
About 32 million Britons now enjoy a high percentage of immunity to a disease that kills people without the input of the FDA.

Because of the vaccines. Thinking any other way cost lives.
 
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loveofourlord

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While i agree the vaccine reduces the numbers significantly, the numbers you present as basis for comparison are hardly honest.

You're comparing the number of people infected/killed from Covid since the beginning of the pandemic (well over a year) with the number of fully vaccinated people infected/killed (much smaller population pool and a much shorter timespan).

You can stick with door number one, but not because of the numbers you put forth in your post.

better example is, 78k people tested positive for covid 2 days ago in the US and nearly 1k died, in ONE day, vs 5800 and 74 over 4-5 months.
 
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expos4ever

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It is good to hear the left finally showing so much confidence and support for the Trump vaccine. But it is also strange that so many on the right are now skeptical.
Let's set aside the dubious attempt to confer credit on Trump, of all people, for the vaccine. Do you have any evidence at all to the effect that "the left" has ever been particularly skeptical about vaccines?

I would be stunned if the left, as a group, was ever more skeptical than any other group.
 
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expos4ever

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I notice how you become defensive when something is pointed out to you that you don't agree with.
My assertion that we still don't know the long-term effects still stands valid. Sorry if it offends you.
Nonsense. I am skeptical of claims with zero evidence.

And this is a specialty of yours.

When did I EVER say the long term effects were known? Specific post number please.
 
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renniks

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You have been caught making things up, so you try to dance.

Again:

Do you have even a shred of actual evidence for your claim?

And as any reasonable person knows, finding the odd anecdote does not count - do you have any evidence of systematic attempts to cover up deaths that are factually related to the vaccine?
Lol. what would count as evidence to people who deny any evidence?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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There's one factor you left out: Time.
5800 breakthrough infections so far. How long have the 80 million been "vaccinated"? Give it a year and see how many more breakthroughs there will be, and how many will die--both from Covid, as well as the shot to prevent it.

What evidence do you have currently to suggest that there's even a remote chance that deaths from rare reactions to the vaccine, itself, will ever outpace (or even come close to) the number deaths from the disease itself?

As far as the rate of breakthrough infections, the rate of those will actually decline as more people get vaccinated...which is why establishing a certain measure of herd immunity is important.

From a clinical standpoint, the terms "efficacy" and "effectiveness" have different meanings.

But for the sake of keeping it simple, let's say that all of the calculations have been done to calculate for efficacy and effectiveness, and it's determined that a person, themselves, taking the vaccine will prevent them from catching it (upon being exposed) 9 times out of 10.

So if you went to a party with 11 people people (yourself included) where all 10 other people have it and you have close contact with all 10 of them, it wouldn't be terribly surprising if you still contracted it. However, the more people at at the party who are vaccinated, the less likelihood you have of encountering that "1/10 ten chance" of contracting it.



This clip (from 2017, pre-covid) visually explains herd immunity pretty well, as well as provides some estimates for the levels of vaccination required to establish community protection based on the basic reproduction number.

upload_2021-4-17_10-27-54.png


The reproduction number for Covid is around 3, so to really see the vaccines full potential, we'd need 2/3 of the population fully vaccinated.

So, as I noted before, the fact that it's already showing the kinds of protection numbers that it is, with only 20-30% of the population being fully vaccinated, is quite encouraging.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Let's set aside the dubious attempt to confer credit on Trump, of all people, for the vaccine. Do you have any evidence at all to the effect that "the left" has ever been particularly skeptical about vaccines?

I would be stunned if the left, as a group, was ever more skeptical than any other group.

Anti-vaxxerism, itself, has been one of the few conspiracies that seems to span the political spectrum and doesn't follow the usual patterns.

Anti-vaccination beliefs don't follow the usual political polarization

Surveys have indicated that that the political affiliation itself (at least in 2014-2015 when these surveys and studies were done) was less of an indicator of vaccine skepticism than "how political" one is, in general.

Meaning, the further away of "moderate" a person is (on either side), the more likely they are to be anti-vaxx. The same is true for many things within the realm of medical pseudoscience.

For instance, if talking to someone who's engaged GMO skepticism or misguided theories about BPA (or view on alternative medicine in general), you could be talking to someone from either side.

Example: If you're debating online with someone who's giving anecdotes about the supposed benefits of "essential oils"... that person could either be a staunchly conservative rural middle-aged housewife in Tennessee who's skeptical of "big pharma", or it could be a 22 year left-wing hippie living in Portland who thinks "it's better because it's more natural and comes from mother earth"
 
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expos4ever

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Anti-vaxxerism, itself, has been one of the few conspiracies that seems to span the political spectrum...
Good post, and I entirely agree with you. Just to clarify - I was crystal clear in my post that I was not claiming "the left" was any less anti-vax than the right. I was responding to a dubious implication by another poster that "the left" was more skeptical than the right.
 
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expos4ever

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Lol. what would count as evidence to people who deny any evidence?
What are you talking about? Please point to any post of mine, or any other pro-vaccine person here, that provides even a scintilla of evidence to support your claim that we "deny evidence".

Good luck.
 
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