Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday The Lords Day....GO!

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The legend that two strangers would meet and one would use his walking stick to draw one half of a fish, and the other would finish it--that is a legend that doesn't have any history backing it up.

That the fish was used to decorate Christian meeting places, such as the tombs of the saints, and that it therefore made for a rather unassuming, non suspicious symbol--that does have historical merit.

But also, Christians weren't secretive about the fish symbol--Christians openly talked about it, such as the quote from Tertulllian I presented illustrates.

I hope you are not suggesting that the quote from Tertullian disagrees with history, because that is, quite literally, history. It is a primary written source from the relevant period of time, one can't get more historical than that.

-CryptoLutheran

In the movie Polycarp, they use a fish symbol as a way for Christians to recognize or find one another. Granted this was a movie, but I believe this element of the film was based on historical fact. Anyways, great Christian movie whether or not you agree with me on the fish symbol issue or not.

 
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Ayenew

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I am a Sabbath keeper of course but i am looking for valid arguments as to why Sunday church goers go to church on Sunday instead of Saturday? Feel free to post links to videos and or articles supporting your argument, as well as quoting scripture!
I feel it's not a bad idea to give 2 days for God and rest, and work hard in the rest 5.
 
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FenderTL5

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In the movie Polycarp, they use a fish symbol as a way for Christians to recognize or find one another. Granted this was a movie, but I believe this element of the film was based on historical fact. Anyways, great Christian movie whether or not you agree with me on the fish symbol issue or not.

I find it truly fascinating that you will reject historical elements from the Church that have evidence of being practiced since the earliest of historical writings, yet at the same time choose to believe something as fact from a movie from 6 years ago.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No. Just the Sabbath (the 4th command) does not carry over.

Just the one that God said “REMEMBER” and the day we will worship Him on the New Earth Isaiah 66:23? What you are doing is teaching people to break one of God’s commandments. God has TEN commandments and all Ten were placed in the ark of the covenant in the most holy of holy. The 4th commandment is the only commandment that has the word “Remember” and “holy” in it, but this is the only commandment God now wants us to forget? This is a man-made teaching that breaks one of God’s commandments and is considered a sin. Colossians 2 does not wipe out God’s Sabbath, you have to read the chapter in context, but refusing to look at it truthfully doesn’t change the Sabbath is part of God’s Ten and is our moral duty to God to worship Him on the day He commanded us to. God never separated one of His commandments written in stone, by His own hand from Ten to nine. This is a man-made teaching Jesus warned us about. Mathew 15:8-9

Even the early scholars don’t believe what you are teaching.


This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for us Mark 2:27 27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

God bless and happy Sabbath.
 
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Saint Steven

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And you're right, they are. That's why the Church chose the first day of the week--not because of the inherent betterness of this day, but out of voluntary choice. A voluntary choice intended to give honor to Christ, who rose, and thus called this day Kyriake.

Which is why St. John on Patmos writes that it was the Kyriake when he was in prayer when he received his visions. It's what the day was called, from almost the beginning.

-CryptoLutheran
That's good. Thanks for your informative and useful posts on this subject.

I don't think I can find the citation, but I had read that when the church still contained some Sabbath-keeping Jews that the day after the Sabbath was a good time to meet with the gentile believers that were not allowed in synagogue. The scriptures were still fresh in the minds of the Jewish believers to share with the gentile fellowship.

I did a quick search and found the general area where I think the citation is found. I will look a little deeper. Articles About the Sabbath | Grace Communion International

I'm getting warmer. (link below) This is found in the fourth paragraph under the heading:
Additional meetings on first day of week
"The Jerusalem church continued to rest on the sabbath and attend Temple or synagogue services, and they also met as Christians in private homes to hear teaching from the apostles and to break bread together.50 The reason for Sunday worship would have been a Christian need for a time of distinctively Christian worship. As Bauckham notes, once we grant that the Jerusalem church had Christian meetings in addition to the Temple or synagogue services, the Jewish Christian observance of the sabbath is not contradictory to Jewish Christian worship on Sunday.51 After the Christians were removed from the synagogues, only these Sunday meetings would be left. As we see in Acts 20:7 (which predates the Jewish Christians being expelled from the synagogues), Luke writes that the church in Troas was meeting on the first day of the week for the purpose of breaking bread." The Origins of Sunday Worship in the Early Church | GCI Archive
 
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Danthemailman

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Here is a very informative website about the Sabbath Truth

What day is the Sabbath and does it matter? | Sabbath Truth
So this sums up the SDA gospel? - "Obey all 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and you will be saved?" That is salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works which is not supported by scripture. (Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..) Do you truly believe that obeying all 10 commandments will be the basis or means by which you will receive eternal life? Have you 'perfectly' obeyed all 10 commandments? What will happen to Christians who understand that the sabbath is a shadow and Christ is the substance (Colossians 2:16-17) and look to Christ for their eternal rest instead of keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?
 
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Saint Steven

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So this sums up the SDA gospel? - "Obey all 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and you will be saved?" That is salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works which is not supported by scripture. (Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..) Do you truly believe that obeying all 10 commandments will be the basis or means by which you will receive eternal life? Have you 'perfectly' obeyed all 10 commandments? What will happen to Christians who understand that the sabbath is a shadow and Christ is the substance (Colossians 2:16-17) and look to Christ for their eternal rest instead of keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?
Exactly. I agree.
I am of the opinion that the inclusion of the Sabbath commandment in the TCs proves it is not for gentiles. As does this citation from the TCs second giving,

Deuteronomy 5:3 NIV
It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
 
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Saint Steven

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Exactly. I agree.
I am of the opinion that the inclusion of the Sabbath commandment in the TCs proves it is not for gentiles. As does this citation from the TCs second giving,

Deuteronomy 5:3 NIV
It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
@Danthemailman Further confirmation is found in these scriptures that tell us that the Sabbath was a sign between God and Israel alone. (3x)

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Ezekiel 20:20 NIV
Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So this sums up the SDA gospel? - "Obey all 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) and you will be saved?" That is salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works which is not supported by scripture. (Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..) Do you truly believe that obeying all 10 commandments will be the basis or means by which you will receive eternal life? Have you 'perfectly' obeyed all 10 commandments? What will happen to Christians who understand that the sabbath is a shadow and Christ is the substance (Colossians 2:16-17) and look to Christ for their eternal rest instead of keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law?
You are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I do not think you will be saved by just obeying God’s commandments, but we are told God’s true remnant church keeps both God’s commandments and the faith. Revelation 14:12 Breaking a commandment is considered a sin, which includes the 4th commandment. We are saved by grace (God’s gift) through our faith, but if you love God you will keep His commandments. John 14:15, John 15:10,
 
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SabbathBlessings

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@Danthemailman Further confirmation is found in these scriptures that tell us that the Sabbath was a sign between God and Israel alone. (3x)

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Ezekiel 20:20 NIV
Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”
This is a sign between God and His people period. The Sabbath started before Jews. Genesis 2:3
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
 
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Saint Steven

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This is a sign between God and His people period. The Sabbath started before Jews. Genesis 2:3
You are putting words in my mouth. - lol
The word "Jew" is nowhere to be found in my post.

Saint Steven said:
@Danthemailman Further confirmation is found in these scriptures that tell us that the Sabbath was a sign between God and Israel alone. (3x)

Exodus 31:13 NIV
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Ezekiel 20:12 NIV
Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the Lord made them holy.

Ezekiel 20:20 NIV
Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God.”
 
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Saint Steven

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The Sabbath started before Jews.
I agree with that. (sort of) Meaning, probably not the way you intended it.

The first appearance of the word sabbath in the Bible is found in Exodus chapter 16 (Exodus 16:23) with the giving of manna. The manna was to be collected for six days. And double the amount on the sixth day to allow for a day of rest on the seventh day, a sabbath rest to the Lord for Israel. The sabbath appears again in Exodus 20 with the giving of the TCs to Israel by Moses.
 
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Danthemailman

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You are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I do not think you will be saved by just obeying God’s commandments, but we are told God’s true remnant church keeps both God’s commandments and the faith. Revelation 14:12 Breaking a commandment is considered a sin, which includes the 4th commandment. We are saved by grace (God’s gift) through our faith, but if you love God you will keep His commandments. John 14:15, John 15:10,
How am I putting words in your mouth? You continually stress the importance of keeping the sabbath day as a NT Christian as if our life depends on it and you also stressed that breaking a commandment is considered a sin, which includes the 4th commandment. Can you show me where breaking the 4th commandment is a sin for NT Christians under the new covenant? *News flash. *ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) I often hear SDA's say we are saved by grace through faith, but then re-define "saved by grace through faith, not works" to "include" commandment keeping (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). To "keep" (Greek word "tereo") His commandments means to guard, observe, watch over His commandments, which is what NT Christians do because they love Christ. How do YOU define 'KEEP' His commandments?
 
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Saint Steven

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This is a sign between God and His people period. The Sabbath started before Jews. Genesis 2:3
Your signature line reads: "The only scripture spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless"

What about the writing on the wall in Daniel? Or the voice at the baptism of Christ and the transfiguration? Or the voice to Saul on the road to Damascus? There may be more.

And you have no proof that the old covenant is written on our hearts and then called a new covenant. A covenant (agreement) cannot be new unless there is a change in the agreement.

Imagine paying off your mortgage and having the bank send you a new copy printed on yellow paper claiming you owe the full amount again. Would you pay it? That is what you appear to be doing with the old covenant.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
 
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Saint Steven

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How am I putting words in your mouth? You continually stress the importance of keeping the sabbath day as a NT Christian as if our life depends on it and you also stressed that breaking a commandment is considered a sin, which includes the 4th commandment. Can you show me where breaking the 4th commandment is a sin for NT Christians under the new covenant? *News flash. *ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) I often hear SDA's say we are saved by grace through faith, but then re-define "saved by grace through faith, not works" to "include" commandment keeping (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). To "keep" (Greek word "tereo") His commandments means to guard, observe, watch over His commandments, which is what NT Christians do because they love Christ. How do YOU define 'KEEP' His commandments?
I agree.
An important timeline is indicated in this scripture. Before... until... now...

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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How am I putting words in your mouth? You continually stress the importance of keeping the sabbath day as a NT Christian as if our life depends on it and you also stressed that breaking a commandment is considered a sin, which includes the 4th commandment. Can you show me where breaking the 4th commandment is a sin for NT Christians under the new covenant? *News flash. *ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23) I often hear SDA's say we are saved by grace through faith, but then re-define "saved by grace through faith, not works" to "include" commandment keeping (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). To "keep" (Greek word "tereo") His commandments means to guard, observe, watch over His commandments, which is what NT Christians do because they love Christ. How do YOU define 'KEEP' His commandments?
I never said that was the only way to salvation, so you did and are putting words in my mouth.

Have you ever considered for a moment what if you’re wrong? That God’s Sabbath that is part of an eternal covenant still stands. Luke 16:17, Psalms 89:34, Psalms 111, 7-8 The mocking that goes on these forums about God’s Sabbath the day He told us to REMEMBER and keep holy honestly is so disrespectful to our Savior.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Your signature line reads: "The only scripture spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless"

What about the writing on the wall in Daniel? Or the voice at the baptism of Christ and the transfiguration? Or the voice to Saul on the road to Damascus? There may be more.

And you have no proof that the old covenant is written on our hearts and then called a new covenant. A covenant (agreement) cannot be new unless there is a change in the agreement.

Imagine paying off your mortgage and having the bank send you a new copy printed on yellow paper claiming you owe the full amount again. Would you pay it? That is what you appear to be doing with the old covenant.

Hebrews 8:7, 13
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. ...
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

God said He would write His laws in our heart in the New Covenant, he did not say the laws were abolished. It’s the same laws, with different promises. Which laws do you think He wrote in our hearts?

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

As you can see, God’s commandments did not go away...

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
 
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Saint Steven

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Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Your signature line reads: "The only scripture spoken and written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant. God asked us to obey all Ten commandments, not just nine. God bless"

There is a contradiction in the Revelation passage and your claim that God wants us to keep the TCs. Where is "sorcery" found in the TCs?

If you are claiming that the commands in the Revelation passage are from the old covenant, then you have expanded the set beyond the TCs. (Ten Commandments) to the full set of 613 commandments of the law.

For that matter, I don't recall the practice of lying being in the TCs. That would be two. Correct me if I am wrong on that. Thanks.
 
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