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cfposter

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Just a moment ago I looked out my window and I still saw shadows. Earlier I had set a timer so I wouldn't miss sunset.

Not sure what this means? Are you saying that Jeremiah was wrong for saying a Day was ending when the shadows failed?
 
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cfposter

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Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

So the evening had come which according to others here means that sunset came already. But yet it is STILL the preparation day. How does that square with a Day starting at sunset?
 
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ViaCrucis

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It's strong H6153 which means "dusk" but that is actually a period known as dusk, and the period is defined from its original verb H6150 - which means to grow in darkness.

So the meaning of Evening is the Period in which it is growing in darkness.

That's where relying too heavily on Strong's is going to get you in trouble. The root verb ערב (arab) means to close, to cover; and hence indicates a covering (of the sun) as when the sun sets; and likewise is used to speak of sealing a deal.

As such עֶרֶב (ereb) refers to the closing off the day, the "covering" of the sun as it sets behind the horizon.

It does not mean "grow in darkness". That is a helpful visual picture of the setting of the sun, as the sun is "covered", and twilight of evening gives way to the dark of night. But it's like me describing the meaning of "sunset" as "when it gets dark"; that doesn't actually tell you the etymological meaning of the word "sunset", but it does accurately describe that it gets dark as the sun sets. The actual meaning of "sunset" is when the sun goes down below the horizon from the perspective of an earthbound observer (as the sun doesn't actually go anywhere, our planet is rotating on its axis, thus only giving the appearance of movement by the sun in relation to ourselves).

As such ereb, evening, refers to when the sun sets, when the sun is covered (arab) as it dips below the horizon out of view.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Jews knew the Day was dictated by it casting a shadow:

Jer 6:4 Prepare yourselves for war against her; rise up, and let us go up against her at noon. Woe to us! for the day has gone down, for the shadows of the day fail.

They knew that when the shadows were gone so was the day part and that evening had come. It was by the SHADOWs they knew the Day.

Just like in English with the word "day", the Hebrew word yom can have different meanings depending on context. In this instance the meaning of the word is clearly being used to speak of daytime rather than nighttime.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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cfposter

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Just like in English with the word "day", the Hebrew word yom can have different meanings depending on context. In this instance the meaning of the word is clearly being used to speak of daytime rather than nighttime.

-CryptoLutheran

At this point, your arguments are irrational and illogical. You're just protecting a lie.
 
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Der Alte

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At this point, your arguments are irrational and illogical. You're just protecting a lie.
Typical heterodox ill-informed objection.
In Matt 12:8 "day" refers to an entire 24 hour period, the Sabbath day.

Matthew 12:8
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
In Joh 9:4 "day" refers to the period of daylight vs. night time in a 24 hour day.
John 9:4
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
 
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cfposter

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Typical heterodox ill-informed objection.
In Matt 12:8 "day" refers to an entire 24 hour period, the Sabbath day.

Matthew 12:8
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
In Joh 9:4 "day" refers to the period of daylight vs. night time in a 24 hour day.
John 9:4
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

My opinions are definitely heterodoxy. So was Christ's at the time.
 
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Der Alte

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I've moved on from you. Until you can resolve your problem with understanding the Biblical Day, then your just holding unto a false ideas.
That might be a good thing since you do not know what you are talking about. I have proved from Jewish sources you don't know what you are talking about.
You falsely claim that the Sabbath always falls on the 29th and the 8th. That is impossible.
|Sabb[Sat] 29|Sun 1|Mon 2|Tue 3|Wed 4|Thu 5|Fri 6|Sabb[Sat] 7|
There is no way around it in the normal Jewish calendar the Sabbath cannot fall on on the 8th.
 
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ViaCrucis

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My opinions are definitely heterodoxy. So was Christ's at the time.

Actually, no, our Lord Jesus Christ didn't teach anything that was heterodox. The clash between Jesus and the Pharisees didn't have anything to do with matters of doctrine. Our Lord was, for all intents and purposes, theologically, a Pharisee. It's why our Lord expressly said that His followers ought to listen to what the Pharisees say, because they sit in Moses' seat--what He condemns is the hypocrisy, "They do not practice what they preach".

Now, the early Christians may have been charged as, effectively, "heretics" under Judaism; but the split between Christianity and Pharisaic Judaism (the precursor to Rabbinic Judaism) was a slow one. Both Christianity and Judaism moved in their own independent directions, but between Pentecost and the destruction of the Temple, Jews and Christians were very often quite intermingled--as the vast majority of Christians were good, devout, synagogue attending, Temple observing Jews (even St. Paul continued to worship at the Temple, as demonstrated in the Acts of the Apostles).

You aren't the first person to try and claim that Jesus was a "heretic" and therefore it's okay for us to be heretical; but it's a bad argument because it is fundamentally just not true. And further, there is a whole lot of difference between being heretical in regard to the institutional Judaism of the first century, and being heretical in regard to Jesus Christ our Lord Himself--concerning which the Apostles very absolutely clear is unacceptable.

Those false teachers and false prophets preaching false gospels, preaching the doctrines of demons, and following after false opinions--haireseis (heresies)--are consistently condemned in Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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cfposter

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Actually, no, our Lord Jesus Christ didn't teach anything that was heterodox. The clash between Jesus and the Pharisees didn't have anything to do with matters of doctrine. Our Lord was, for all intents and purposes, theologically, a Pharisee. It's why our Lord expressly said that His followers ought to listen to what the Pharisees say, because they sit in Moses' seat--what He condemns is the hypocrisy, "They do not practice what they preach".

Now, the early Christians may have been charged as, effectively, "heretics" under Judaism; but the split between Christianity and Pharisaic Judaism (the precursor to Rabbinic Judaism) was a slow one. Both Christianity and Judaism moved in their own independent directions, but between Pentecost and the destruction of the Temple, Jews and Christians were very often quite intermingled--as the vast majority of Christians were good, devout, synagogue attending, Temple observing Jews (even St. Paul continued to worship at the Temple, as demonstrated in the Acts of the Apostles).

You aren't the first person to try and claim that Jesus was a "heretic" and therefore it's okay for us to be heretical; but it's a bad argument because it is fundamentally just not true. And further, there is a whole lot of difference between being heretical in regard to the institutional Judaism of the first century, and being heretical in regard to Jesus Christ our Lord Himself--concerning which the Apostles very absolutely clear is unacceptable.

Those false teachers and false prophets preaching false gospels, preaching the doctrines of demons, and following after false opinions--haireseis (heresies)--are consistently condemned in Scripture.

-CryptoLutheran

Just a straw man there. Don't need to touch it.
 
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Der Alte

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Just a straw man there. Don't need to touch it.
Dictionary cop-out /ˈkäpˌout/
noun informal
noun: copout

  1. an instance of avoiding a commitment or responsibility.
    "being ‘average’ is the lazy person's cop-out"
 
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cfposter

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Dictionary cop-out /ˈkäpˌout/
noun informal
noun: copout

  1. an instance of avoiding a commitment or responsibility.
    "being ‘average’ is the lazy person's cop-out"

What spirit are your exhibiting with that statement?
 
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Der Alte

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What spirit are your exhibiting with that statement?
Calling a spade a spade. You accused someone of a strawman argument without explaining how it was. I doubt that you know how.
 
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Der Alte

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Well then you missed it. Wasn't directed at you.
Nope!
The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.
 
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