"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
You say:

A person must be regenerated so he can believe.

A person must be born again so he can believe.

These are man-made teachings, not taught in Scripture. God reveals no such thing in His Word.

You have a choice to make, whether to believe in the teachings of men or be taught by God's Word.

Blessings

^^^ teaching of a man.

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
Belief is a work.

Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
— John 6:28-29

And again, we cannot please Him in the flesh.

The Apostle Paul taught that faith is not a work (Romans 4:5; Galatians 2:16). So will you now pit Scripture against Scripture?

In John 6:28-29, Jesus is not saying faith is a work, rather, Lord Jesus is using questioner's own speech right back at him, saying that the "work" is to believe. No teaching is given here, that faith is a work.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
The Bible says it exactly the opposite.
Jesus told Nicodemus "You must be born again." (John 3:7)
Then Nicodemus asks "How can this be?" (John 3:9)
And Jesus answers "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him." (John 3:14)

You don't get born again before believing. You are born again by believing.

Sorry, but believing is pleasing to God.

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
You cannot serve two masters – it’s one or the other (Matthew 6:24).

You can’t be lukewarm (Revelation 3:16; 1 John 2:15-17; Luke 11:27-28),

You can’t be a fence sitter (James 1:5-7).

No one looking back to the old life will inherit eternal life (Luke 9:62; Romans 6:19-23; 1 Peter 1:17-19).

Do not sell your eternal inheritance for the carnal pleasures of this temporary life (Hebrews 12:16-17).[QUOTE/]

Why stop here? ... There are dozens more.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
The Apostle Paul taught that faith is not a work (Romans 4:5; Galatians 2:16). So will you now pit Scripture against Scripture?

In John 6:28-29, Jesus is not saying faith is a work, rather, Lord Jesus is using questioner's own speech right back at him, saying that the "work" is to believe.

Yes. Belief is the only work. It’s just not a work of the law, which was what Paul was talking about.

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
The same chapter where the Trinity is explained. Do you have some place where it says that you must believe to be born again?

When you see a verse that says “born again” (John 3:5-9), keep in mind that this one isolated verse does not teach who, how, why, or when the Spirit gives the new birth.

Other Scriptures do teach us all about this, just as well have seen. So, before assuming an opinion onto a Passage, the wise thing to do would be to check to see if the Scriptures explain how it all happens that have to do with the born again experience. They do explain.

Lord Jesus did not leave Nicodemus hanging without a full answer to Nicodemus’ question “How can this be?” (Verse 9).

Read the rest of what Lord Jesus replied in response to Nicodemus’ question in John 3:13-18, and we see that it is by faith in Lord Jesus that a sinner is given eternal life – the life of the Spirit.

This is the life of the Spirit that those who believe would receive after Lord Jesus was glorified.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

John 4:13-14 (WEB)
13 Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

Friedrich Rubinstein · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
Sorry, but believing is pleasing to God.

I guess you'll always find a way to not having to believe what the Bible says

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
Yes. Belief is the only work. It’s just not a work of the law, which was what Paul was talking about.

What other work is pleasing to God then the works of the law? Paul clearly stated and taught that faith was not a work, but was opposed to works.

Galatians 2:15-16 (ESV) 15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
When you see a verse that says “born again” (John 3:5-9), keep in mind that this one isolated verse does not teach who, how, why, or when the Spirit gives the new birth.

Other Scriptures do teach us all about this, just as well have seen. So, before assuming an opinion onto a Passage, the wise thing to do would be to check to see if the Scriptures explain how it all happens that have to do with the born again experience. They do explain.

Lord Jesus did not leave Nicodemus hanging without a full answer to Nicodemus’ question “How can this be?” (Verse 9).

Read the rest of what Lord Jesus replied in response to Nicodemus’ question in John 3:13-18, and we see that it is by faith in Lord Jesus that a sinner is given eternal life – the life of the Spirit.

This is the life of the Spirit that those who believe would receive after Lord Jesus was glorified.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

John 4:13-14 (WEB)
13 Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

I don’t see any verse that says you must believe in order to be born again. I’m going to hold you to the same standard.

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
Yes. Belief is the only work. It’s just not a work of the law, which was what Paul was talking about.

No Scriptures teach that faith is a work - not one.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
I guess you'll always find a way to not having to believe what the Bible says

I believe it.

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:5-8

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
You say:

A person must be regenerated so he can believe.

A person must be born again so he can believe.

These are man-made teachings, not taught in Scripture. God reveals no such thing in His Word.

You have a choice to make, whether to believe in the teachings of men or be taught by God's Word.

Blessings

You say, a person must believe by their own free will, before being born again, which act of their own free will causes them to become born again.

These are man-made teachings, not taught in Scripture. God reveals no such thing in His Word. Do you deny Romans 8? "5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God." There are MANY other passages in the same vein.

You have a choice to make, whether to believe in the teachings of men or be taught by God's Word.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
What other work is pleasing to God then the works of the law? Paul clearly stated and taught that faith was not a work, but was opposed to works.

Galatians 2:15-16 (ESV) 15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Right. Works of the Law.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
No Scriptures teach that faith is a work - not one.

I’ve already shown that not to be true. Read John 6.

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
I don’t see any verse that says you must believe in order to be born again. I’m going to hold you to the same standard.

Read the context of Lord Jesus' response to Nicodemus...

"John 3:14-16" is Lord Jesus response to his sincere question. Lord Jesus would not leave Nicodemus without an answer.

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
God judges our faith by our actions, for the doers of the Word are those who demonstrate a Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus.

Jesus repeats several times in John 14 ...
Those who love Me will obey My commandments.

Jesus says in John 15:14 ...
Those who are My friends will obey My commandments.

So, I repeat again ...
Who gets into heaven who does not love Jesus and is not His friend?
Ergo, who gets into heaven who does not obey Jesus' commandments?

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
I’ve already shown that not to be true. Read John 6.

Where in John 6 does Lord Jesus teach that faith is a work? Lord Jesus responded to a question, but did not teach anywhere in all is ministry that faith was a work - not once.

Friedrich Rubinstein · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
I believe it.

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:5-8

Then you would know that beliving in Jesus is not an act of the flesh. The moment you make the decision to believe in Jesus you awaken spiritually and get born again.

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
The Scriptures continually and repeatedly teach throughout that faith, demonstrated by denying ourselves, and then following Lord Jesus into a holy (sanctified) life of righteousness and love (Colossians 3:1-17; Romans 6), is the acceptable faith by which God grants the free gift of eternal life (Romans 6:19-23). By this faith, we are living a new life in Christ by which we now produce good works. Those are the only kind of works God accepts (John 15:10).

You are building a man-made structure. Nowhere does God imply that the works of man results in eternal life.

Again: Where do you think that faith --i.e. salvific faith-- comes from? How can a person at enmity to God, whose every thought and intent is fraught with sin, generate such faith?

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
Then you would know that beliving in Jesus is not an act of the flesh. The moment you make the decision to believe in Jesus you awaken spiritually and get born again.

You just contradicted yourself.

"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Psalm 144:1

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Psalm 144:1

Still an evangelist

Psalm 144:1

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Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

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Psalm 144:1

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Still an evangelist

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

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