"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

Butterball1 said:
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

The logical implication is if salvation is a UNconditional gift then 'all men' UNconditional will receive it.

Titus 2:1-14 (context, brother).

But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Older men are to be temperate, dignified, sensible, sound in faith, in love, in perseverance. Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored. Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative, not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
— Titus 2:1-14

We have the first 10 verses discussing various types of people. Older men and women. Younger men and women. Slaves. Masters. So when Paul says

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
— Titus 2:11-12
the “all men” he’s referring to are the types of people referenced in the earlier verses. So when Paul says that God’s grace brings salvation, he actually means that those to whom God’s grace appears are really saved.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
Where does Scripture say we have to be regenerated so we can believe?

The same chapter where it describes the Trinity.

Now, do you find fault with this?

Scripture says that we cannot please God in the flesh. Believing is pleasing to God. Hence, we need to be born again in order to believe.

I can walk you through it if you are doubting that this is true.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
But you do realize that not every human being is a child of God, right? It's not as automatic as you seem to think.

No, not every human is a child of God. Some are children of the devil. He gives us the right to become children of God.

Friedrich Rubinstein · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
No, not every human is a child of God. Some are children of the devil. He gives us the right to become children of God.

Well, at least that you agree with. So your example of your children is invalid. Your children got no choice to be your children, but we have a choice whether we want to be children of God or not.

In order to become a child of God we have to believe and repent. There is no way around it. Yep, conditions, whether we like it or not.

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
The same chapter where it describes the Trinity.

Now, do you find fault with this?

Scripture says that we cannot please God in the flesh. Believing is pleasing to God. Hence, we need to be born again in order to believe.

I can walk you through it if you are doubting that this is true.

Our works cannot please God, but God accept our faith, which does please God.

Hebrews 11:6 (ESV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

So, where do you find in Scriptures that we are regenerated so we can believe?

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
Well, at least that you agree with. So your example of your children is invalid. Your children got no choice to be your children, but we have a choice whether we want to be children of God or not.

In order to become a child of God we have to believe and repent. There is no way around it. Yep, conditions, whether we like it or not.

No, to be justified you must believe. To believe you must be born again.

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
Practicing righteousness is a very active decision of your will. The decision to obey God and subordinate your own will. As long as you don't do that you cannot be a disciple. Yes, it is a must.

Of course it is a must. None of us are saying different.

But the born again WILL indeed make that decision, and submit. It has nothing to do with 'automatic'. It has to do with the Spirit of God compelling --causing.

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
No, to be justified you must believe. To believe you must be born again.

Where does Scripture say you must be born again to believe?

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
Here’s a question: since born again Christians are children of God, how does He handle disobedient children?

He chastises them.
They have free will to change, or not to change.
The spirit (small "s") is willing, but the flesh is weak.
If they don't respond to chastisement, then what?

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

John Mullally said:
Righteous behavior is not automatic. Here Paul talking to believers instructs them to do something to bring it about: Reckon yourself dead to sin, but alive to God. Do not let sin reign in you. Present your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Romans 6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Of course it isn't automatic. Nobody said it was.

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2021

I repeat for those who have not responded and for new-comers:

Can a BAC get away with being a habitual sinner
(and goes to heaven)
whilst …
a non-believer cannot get away with being a habitual sinner
(and goes to hell)?

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
Our works cannot please God, but God accept our faith, which does please God.

Hebrews 11:6 (ESV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

So, where do you find in Scriptures that we are regenerated so we can believe?

Without faith it is impossible to please him --WHERE does that say that works cannot please God? Works not done in (and by) faith does not please him. Are you going to tell me that the person that receives Christ does so without pleasing God? And where does that salvific faith come from?

Does not the supposed faith by a person deciding to believe and "accept Christ", generated by that person, without God first regenerating him, a work? How not? Is it not an act of the 'freewill'?

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
No, to be justified you must believe. To believe you must be born again.

You say:

A person must be regenerated so he can believe.
A person must be born again so he can believe.

These are man-made teachings, not taught in Scripture. God reveals no such thing in His Word.

You have a choice to make, whether to believe in the teachings of men or be taught by God's Word.

Blessings

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
Where does Scripture say you must be born again to believe?

That is total nonsense of course.
'Tis even possible that God must give a person
the ability to believe in Jesus and His gospel
BEFORE he/she CAN believe in Him and it. Witness Lydia.
Lydia, who's she?

Friedrich Rubinstein · Apr 16, 2021

Hammster said:
To believe you must be born again.

The Bible says it exactly the opposite.
Jesus told Nicodemus "You must be born again." (John 3:7)
Then Nicodemus asks "How can this be?" (John 3:9)
And Jesus answers "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him." (John 3:14)

You don't get born again before believing. You are born again by believing.

Mark Quayle · Apr 16, 2021

Butterball1 said:
Charles Stanley thinks so. In his book titled "Eternal Security: Can you Be Sure?" Dr. Stanley writes: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand” (p. 74). Earlier in the book Dr. Stanley writes: "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation”.

Agreed. The BAC who forever hereafter 'abandons their faith' is not of the Elect. Nor was his 'faith' of God, if it failed. My guess is that Stanley draws on several passages for this, particularly the one that says, "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire. (1 Corinthians 3:15)

setst777 · Apr 16, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
Without faith it is impossible to please him --WHERE does that say that works cannot please God? Works not done in (and by) faith does not please him. Are you going to tell me that the person that receives Christ does so without pleasing God? And where does that salvific faith come from?

Does not the supposed faith by a person deciding to believe and "accept Christ", generated by that person, without God first regenerating him, a work? How not? Is it not an act of the 'freewill'?

The Scriptures continually and repeatedly teach throughout that faith, demonstrated by denying ourselves, and then following Lord Jesus into a holy (sanctified) life of righteousness and love (Colossians 3:1-17; Romans 6), is the acceptable faith by which God grants the free gift of eternal life (Romans 6:19-23). By this faith, we are living a new life in Christ by which we now produce good works. Those are the only kind of works God accepts (John 15:10).

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
Our works cannot please God, but God accept our faith, which does please God.

Hebrews 11:6 (ESV)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

So, where do you find in Scriptures that we are regenerated so we can believe?

Belief is a work.

Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
— John 6:28-29

And again, we cannot please Him in the flesh.

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

setst777 said:
Where does Scripture say you must be born again to believe?

The same chapter where the Trinity is explained. Do you have some place where it says that you must believe to be born again?

Hammster · Apr 16, 2021

BCsenior said:
He chastises them.
They have free will to change, or not to change.
The spirit (small "s") is willing, but the flesh is weak.
If they don't respond to chastisement, then what?

They will. That’s what makes Him a good Father.

"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

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Psalm 144:1

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