John Piper’s son Abraham Piper skewers evangelicals as his star rises on TikTok

public hermit · Apr 15, 2021

Abraham Piper:

“Is one of my themes attacking Christianity? No. I don’t attack Christianity. I berate evangelicalism. Fundamentalism. It’s a destructive narrow-minded worldview. And one of the most destructive, narrow-minded aspects of it is that its adherents feel as if they are the entirety of Christianity rather than the tiny sliver of it that they actually are,” he argued.

“Evangelicalism is a toddler tradition that’s cousins with Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and the snot-nosed little sibling of mainline Protestant denominations. So yes, I’m out here saying that fundamentalism is bizarre anti-intellectual (bad word). But that’s not me attacking Christianity. Christianity is a big family. I’m just saying that one of the kids is being kind of a brat. And most of the rest of the family agrees,” he added.

Abraham Piper on lies he was told in school:

“In a real class at a school that charged real money to parents to give their kids a real education, I was taught that the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin all had satanic messages in their music. But this was the '90s — 25, 30 years after these bands were in their prime,” he said with wincing sarcasm.

“So let’s say my teachers were telling us the truth and it wasn’t just fear-mongering propaganda from another little ‘ministry’ hiding out in Colorado. Why didn’t the devil have anything new to tell us? Shouldn’t we have gotten that demonic head nod from Green Day or Nirvana? Maybe Garth Brooks?” he asked. “Anyhow, these lessons took place between teaching us how to defend Young Earth Creationism and protect ourselves from secular humanism which, in case you didn’t know, is the root cause of every single atrocity that took place in the 20th century, if you went to my high school.”

John Piper’s son skewers evangelicals as TikTok star rises - The Christian Post

wing2000 · Apr 15, 2021

Naming your son Abraham is probably not a good idea.

I am not familiar with the Pipers, but maybe this theology student is...

Taylor Brown, a New Testament Ph.D. student at Baylor University opined on his dislike for both Pipers in a comment on Twitter Monday: “Abraham Piper seems just as bad as his dad with saying dumb stuff but just in an insufferable exvangelical way instead of an insufferable hyper-Calvinist way.”

Hmm · Apr 15, 2021

public hermit said:
I berate evangelicalism. Fundamentalism. It’s a destructive narrow-minded worldview. And one of the most destructive, narrow-minded aspects of it is that its adherents feel as if they are the entirety of Christianity rather than the tiny sliver of it that they actually are,” he argued.

And probably most secular people feel that fundamentalist evangelicalism is the entirety of Christianity too because, like all bratty (to use Piper's description) kids, it screams the loudest and most annoyingly.

Clare73 · Apr 15, 2021

public hermit said:
Abraham Piper:
“Is one of my themes attacking Christianity? No. I don’t attack Christianity. I berate evangelicalism. Fundamentalism. It’s a destructive narrow-minded worldview. And one of the most destructive, narrow-minded aspects of it is that its adherents feel as if they are the entirety of Christianity rather than the tiny sliver of it that they actually are,” he argued.

“Evangelicalism is a toddler tradition that’s cousins with Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and the snot-nosed little sibling of mainline Protestant denominations. So yes, I’m out here saying that fundamentalism is bizarre anti-intellectual (bad word). But that’s not me attacking Christianity. Christianity is a big family. I’m just saying that one of the kids is being kind of a brat. And most of the rest of the family agrees,” he added.

Abraham Piper on lies he was told in school:

“In a real class at a school that charged real money to parents to give their kids a real education, I was taught that the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin all had satanic messages in their music. But this was the '90s — 25, 30 years after these bands were in their prime,” he said with wincing sarcasm.

“So let’s say my teachers were telling us the truth and it wasn’t just fear-mongering propaganda from another little ‘ministry’ hiding out in Colorado. Why didn’t the devil have anything new to tell us? Shouldn’t we have gotten that demonic head nod from Green Day or Nirvana? Maybe Garth Brooks?” he asked. “Anyhow, these lessons took place between teaching us how to defend Young Earth Creationism and protect ourselves from secular humanism which, in case you didn’t know, is the root cause of every single atrocity that took place in the 20th century, if you went to my high school.”

John Piper’s son skewers evangelicals as TikTok star rises - The Christian Post

The kind of high school Abraham attended are few, and is not reflective of the balance of Reformed Christianity, but we should pause and consider, in the light of the NT, the culture they are condemning before we blanket condemn their condemnation. The school might have done a more convincing and balanced job of presenting the facts, but there is truth in what they were saying.

And how do you present that contra-culture truth to unregenerate high schoolers?

Let's also keep in mind what "Fundamentalism" actually asserts:
inspiration and infallibility of Scripture,
deity of Christ,
his virgin birth and miracles,
his penal death for our sin,
his physical resurrection and return.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

durangodawood · Apr 15, 2021

public hermit said:
...“In a real class at a school that charged real money to parents to give their kids a real education, I was taught that the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin all had satanic messages in their music. But this was the '90s — 25, 30 years after these bands were in their prime,” he said with wincing sarcasm.....

Im still not entirely convinced that the Beatles didnt have some outside, um, help. Like UFOs and the pyramids. There's no way they could have done that by themselves.

Speedwell · Apr 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
The kind of high school Abraham attended are few, and is not reflective of the balance of Reformed Christianity, but we should pause and consider, in the light of the NT, the culture they are condemning before we blanket condemn their condemnation. The school might have done a more convincing and balanced job of presenting the facts, but there is truth in what they were saying.

And how do you present that contra-culture truth to unregenerate high schoolers?

Hard to do, now that for so many conservative Evangelicals the NT includes the Gospel according to St. Donald.

durangodawood · Apr 15, 2021

More on topic. when I hear about evangelical Christianity I'm reminded instantly of three things:
1. Stubborn denial of reality (young earth etc)
2. More than tolerance for scoundrels; actual elevation of them.
3. Moral intransigence disguised as conservatism.

I'm sure there lots of fine people doing good work in the evangelical fold. But those things rise to the top, probably due the the centrality of politics in the evangelical presence, which is their main outward face toward the world.

Clare73 · Apr 15, 2021

Speedwell said:
Hard to do, now that for so many conservative Evangelicals the NT includes the Gospel according to St. Donald.

Didn't know there was a Donald in the litany.

Speedwell · Apr 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
Didn't know there was a Donald in the litany.

Only since 2016.

Maria Billingsley · Apr 15, 2021

public hermit said:
Abraham Piper:

“Is one of my themes attacking Christianity? No. I don’t attack Christianity. I berate evangelicalism. Fundamentalism. It’s a destructive narrow-minded worldview. And one of the most destructive, narrow-minded aspects of it is that its adherents feel as if they are the entirety of Christianity rather than the tiny sliver of it that they actually are,” he argued.

“Evangelicalism is a toddler tradition that’s cousins with Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy and the snot-nosed little sibling of mainline Protestant denominations. So yes, I’m out here saying that fundamentalism is bizarre anti-intellectual (bad word). But that’s not me attacking Christianity. Christianity is a big family. I’m just saying that one of the kids is being kind of a brat. And most of the rest of the family agrees,” he added.

Abraham Piper on lies he was told in school:

“In a real class at a school that charged real money to parents to give their kids a real education, I was taught that the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and Led Zeppelin all had satanic messages in their music. But this was the '90s — 25, 30 years after these bands were in their prime,” he said with wincing sarcasm.

“So let’s say my teachers were telling us the truth and it wasn’t just fear-mongering propaganda from another little ‘ministry’ hiding out in Colorado. Why didn’t the devil have anything new to tell us? Shouldn’t we have gotten that demonic head nod from Green Day or Nirvana? Maybe Garth Brooks?” he asked. “Anyhow, these lessons took place between teaching us how to defend Young Earth Creationism and protect ourselves from secular humanism which, in case you didn’t know, is the root cause of every single atrocity that took place in the 20th century, if you went to my high school.”

John Piper’s son skewers evangelicals as TikTok star rises - The Christian Post

I know I am probably suppose to be disappointed but the guy is very entertaining and funny any yes angry at times.
Anyway, his rantings are about a lot of things. Like , James Dobson started the myth that women say 20,000 words per day and men only 7000. I never knew this came from an Evangelical psychologist. Be blessed!

Clare73 · Apr 15, 2021

Speedwell said:
Only since 2016.

Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black.

You are as warped as that high school. . .the Catholic Church doesn't add to the litany.

Speedwell · Apr 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black.

You are as warped as that high school. . .the Catholic Church doesn't add to the litany.

Fair enough--and the Evangelicals don't do the Litany. But if you're a Catholic, be wary. Many conservative Evangelicals don't think you're really a Christian and only tolerate you because of the detente arranged by Paul Weyrich back in the 60's over the abortion issue. If Roe v. Wade is ever dealt with to the satisfaction of Evangelicals, Catholics will be returned to the second-class status they enjoyed back when I was a kid.

public hermit · Apr 15, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
James Dobson started the myth that women say 20,000 words per day and men only 7000. I never knew this came from an Evangelical psychologist

Ha! That's pretty hilarious coming from a guy who talks for a living.

FireDragon76 · Apr 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
The kind of high school Abraham attended are few, and is not reflective of the balance of Reformed Christianity, but we should pause and consider, in the light of the NT, the culture they are condemning before we blanket condemn their condemnation. The school might have done a more convincing and balanced job of presenting the facts, but there is truth in what they were saying.

And how do you present that contra-culture truth to unregenerate high schoolers?

Let's also keep in mind what "Fundamentalism" actually asserts:
inspiration and infallibility of Scripture,
deity of Christ,
his virgin birth and miracles,
his penal death for our sin,
his physical resurrection and return.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

That's not what Fundamentalists actually stand for. Fundamentalism was a reaction to the loss of white, male, conservative Protestant hegemony.

FireDragon76 · Apr 15, 2021

durangodawood said:
More on topic. when I hear about evangelical Christianity I'm reminded instantly of three things:
1. Stubborn denial of reality (young earth etc)
2. More than tolerance for scoundrels; actual elevation of them.
3. Moral intransigence disguised as conservatism.

Bingo. Scoundrels that think they are saints.

Clare73 · Apr 15, 2021

Speedwell said:
Fair enough--and the Evangelicals don't do the Litany. But if you're a Catholic, be wary. Many conservative Evangelicals don't think you're really a Christian and only tolerate you because of the detente arranged by Paul Weyrich back in the 60's over the abortion issue. If Roe v. Wade is ever dealt with to the satisfaction of Evangelicals, Catholics will be returned to the second-class status they enjoyed back when I was a kid.

Thanks for the warning. . .not a Catholic. . .and why does it matter what they think?

Clare73 · Apr 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
also keep in mind what "Fundamentalism" actually asserts:
inspiration and infallibility of Scripture,
deity of Christ,
his virgin birth and miracles,
his penal death for our sin,
his physical resurrection and return.

Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

FireDragon76 said:
That's not what Fundamentalists actually stand for. Fundamentalism was a reaction to the loss of white, male, conservative Protestant hegemony.

It is "The Fundamentals" according to the Deliverance which the General Assembly of the Northern Presbyterian Church issued in 1910, adopted in 1920 by the Northern Baptist Convention, the word being taken up by both conservatives and liberals as a title "for those who mean to do battle royal for the fundamentals," defenders of the historic Christian position.

FireDragon76 · Apr 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
It is "The Fundamentals" according to the Deliverance which the General Assembly of the Northern Presbyterian Church issued in 1910, adopted in 1920 by the Northern Baptist Convention, the word being taken up by both conservatives and liberals as a title "for those who mean to do battle royal for the fundamentals," defenders of the historic Christian position.

Every ideology has its slogans, and "The fundamentals" are theirs. But it's not their reason-for-being. Call it what it is, power-politics of white, male, Protestant religious hegemony.

Hmm · Apr 15, 2021

durangodawood said:
when I hear about evangelical Christianity I'm reminded instantly of three things:
1. Stubborn denial of reality (young earth etc)
2. More than tolerance for scoundrels; actual elevation of them.
3. Moral intransigence disguised as conservatism

I have similar thoughts. I think of exclusivity and dogmaticism and the denial of informed scientific thought. Fundamentalist evangelicals portray an angry and judgmental God who saves just a few people (themselves) from endless torture for no obvious reason.

God is more compassionate than that and the Christian faith should be about the joyful and hopeful news that God wills everyone without exception to share in His self-giving and transforming love.

sfs · Apr 15, 2021

FireDragon76 said:
Every ideology has its slogans, and "The fundamentals" are theirs. But it's not their reason-for-being. Call it what it is, power-politics of white, male, Protestant religious hegemony.

That strikes me as not historically an accurate understanding of the roots of American fundamentalism. For one thing, the opponents of the fundamentalists, the modernists, were also overwhelmingly white, male, and Protestant, and the hegemony of white, male Protestants was not under serious threat at the time.

Once the fundamentalists had been defeated in most denominations and elite institutions, fundamentalism acquired more cultural associations as a movement opposed to elites and the dominant culture. It was, however, still a movement that largely eschewed political involvement. It's only been in the last, say, 40 years that fundamentalism has become an important political force and a factor in culture wars.

John Piper’s son Abraham Piper skewers evangelicals as his star rises on TikTok

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