Biden Set to Announce Withdrawal of US Troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/2021

Noxot said:

I mean if they have resources that a few elites are hogging to themselves while the rest of the area is constantly being destabilized... but that is what we get for merely being the policemen of the world, acting like we are some supreme figure of justice rather than just being honest as to why we make wars occur. we need a stronger sense of justice and purpose than mere economics. once you can count the peoples of a land as part of yourselves you will treat them better, once they can more fully integrate together..... i hope..

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How do you imagine we could go about making the people of Afghanistan a "part of ourselves" and why should we attempt to do so?

Noxot said:

I guess china and russia and germany all thought they had a greater purpose though. a main theme of this reality is surly one challenge after another. no matter what there are going to be problems. first world countries waste way more resources than poorer places.. what humanity needs is a pandemic that wipes more than half of us out then we can focus our struggle against nature rather than on one another.

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Easy there Thanos.

Desk trauma said:

How do you imagine we could go about making the people of Afghanistan a "part of ourselves" and why should we attempt to do so?

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tbh i'm thinking about their people with compassion. when someone is part of the self you don't hate it, you favor it. more* stability in the world could mean less chance of complete destruction. technology could help transform their land into a paradise. we are wiser than ever in understanding how to do this. the more genetics that can be preserved the better off I think humanity will be.

we already went there and fought but people don't believe in taking over places as much as they used to. if we fought them we should have conquered them completely. if it was not worth the cost, we should have left them alone. there is so much corruption on all sides that I don't know what the best outcome is.

you have to give them things that they love to make them not hate us. you can't just bomb them and then leave and expect them to think of us as heros. building them up is better than tearing them down. if the adversary can't give goodness to others, they won't have a real reason to fight against us. they believe they have a cause that is greater than our cause.

Desk trauma said:

Easy there Thanos.

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you have to look at it objectively. humans are going full speed and they don't know how to turn when the road changes directions. we have been too successful and not successful enough. we might not improve and so the result one way or the other is going to be destruction of some sort. the only hope is to improve and if not naturally we will perish, and this improvement has to be highly global and thus it is more unlikely imo. I prefer goodness as a solution because evil solutions are not permanent enough since they are the things causing the problems in the first place.

Noxot said:

you have to look at it objectively.

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I am, thinking that global societal collapse events would be a good thing is cartoon villain level silliness.

Noxot said:

tbh i'm thinking about their people with compassion. when someone is part of the self you don't hate it, you favor it. more* stability in the world could mean less chance of complete destruction. technology could help transform their land into a paradise. we are wiser than ever in understanding how to do this. the more genetics that can be preserved the better off I think humanity will be.

we already went there and fought but people don't believe in taking over places as much as they used to. if we fought them we should have conquered them completely. if it was not worth the cost, we should have left them alone. there is so much corruption on all sides that I don't know what the best outcome is.

you have to give them things that they love to make them not hate us. you can't just bomb them and then leave and expect them to think of us as heros. building them up is better than tearing them down. if the adversary can't give goodness to others, they won't have a real reason to fight against us. they believe they have a cause that is greater than our cause.

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Right, how would any of that be accomplished, how many lives and trillions of dollars do you think we should expend getting that done?

Aldebaran said:

Until their terrorists come here.

Those who think the conditions of one country can't affect ours need to look no further than Mexico and Honduras. The conditions of those countries causes their citizens to overflow into ours and create new problems for us.

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If we were really concerned about terrorism we should be going after the Saudis.

Should have been done in 2002 - better a generation late than never, I suppose.

Nithavela said:

Would have been a mistake under Trump, will be a mistake under Biden. If the USA pulls out in 2021, in 2023 there will be no area in afghanistan not under the control of the taliban. Women will be forced out of public life and schools and other religions will be oppressed, while a new generation of west-hating extremists grows up.

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Maybe Germany could take over the operation - if you feel that strongly about it...

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Maybe Germany could take over the operation - if you feel that strongly about it...

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Germany already has 1100 soldiers over there. I'd be happy for that effort to be increased, but sadly the german army is a bad joke in many regards. Not the soldiers, but the equipment and support structure.

grasping the after wind said:

How is that the business of the United States of America?

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You’ve never heard “you break it, you’ve bought it”?

Aldebaran said:

Until their terrorists come here.

Those who think the conditions of one country can't affect ours need to look no further than Mexico and Honduras. The conditions of those countries causes their citizens to overflow into ours and create new problems for us.

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They already are here. Nothing we did in Afghanistan prevented that.

Nithavela said:

Germany already has 1100 soldiers over there. I'd be happy for that effort to be increased, but sadly the german army is a bad joke in many regards. Not the soldiers, but the equipment and support structure.

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Have at it.

Pommer said:

You’ve never heard “you break it, you’ve bought it”?

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...and we’re back to indefinite occupation.

Pommer said:

You’ve never heard “you break it, you’ve bought it”?

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I have heard of it. I have heard many dumb ideas . I just don't wish to subscribe to them.

Desk trauma said:

Have at it.

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Sadly there is no german party that I could vote for in that regard.

Nithavela said:

Sadly there is no german party that I could vote for in that regard.

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I would like to personally welcome you to the land of the politically homeless, we got tee shirts and everything.

Nithavela said:

Sadly there is no german party that I could vote for in that regard.

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Militarism is really out of fashion in Germany...

grasping the after wind said:

I have heard of it. I have heard many dumb ideas . I just don't wish to subscribe to them.

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Okay, how’s about this one?
“Don’t invade countries and then leave them a shambles unless you want more 9/11’s!”

Desk trauma said:

I am, thinking that global societal collapse events would be a good thing is cartoon villain level silliness.

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what is the alternative? either an increase of technology or tyranny and wars is what comes to mind. I prefer nature to cull us over high levels of tyranny and wars. culling say half or 80% of humans won't lead to collapse. we already did a bunch of stuff and we have a bunch of knowledge, it's not going to magically disappear. obviously a better solution is hoped for. if we can't make it we won't - that's natural law.

Desk trauma said:

Right, how would any of that be accomplished, how many lives and trillions of dollars do you think we should expend getting that done?

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it might not be worth it for someone else to help them. they got to do it themselves and probably they will receive some help along the way. kind of annoying to try to solve a big mess that people might have intended to not solve in the first place. the primordial biological motivations were probably something like exploit as much as possible and wipe out some competition.

easiest solution is if you can't fix it then stop trying to fix it and let the locals who care more by nature of them having to exist there bring about either a worse or better condition, hopefully better. better is an advantage for others too. trade, tourism, culture and what not. an answer might be something as simple as some kind of religious refinement and revival or a cultural one or better education. or what about... if the people that don't want to live in barbarian lands they can flee to a better nation? I know if I lived there I would be trying to escape to a better place.

I don't know a lot about that region. I should not have to, honestly. global knowledge of the world and humanity is in some ways a mistake, not something natural to the way we evolved. you can make news about anything you want since there is so much going on. massive knowledge of the going ons in the world is a useful tool to manipulate people with news. the power hungry will always take advantage of human nature. no one wants to ban cars for killing so many thousands each year.

also I think that humanities idea about what the economy is needs to be refined. wealth is actual resources, money is just a convenient symbol we agreed upon. money can't keep you alive like actual food does. money in itself makes for a poor shelter building material. the economy in it's current form might be too abstract. what really matters is human ability to do things, to make things better. money should not be exalted over humanity, it should not be our "god". we are powerful enough to be less subjugated to survival than we used to be but I don't think we have realized that enough.