Biden Set to Announce Withdrawal of US Troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/2021

Arcangl86 said:

The United States is the reason the country is unstable though.

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It was unstable when we invaded, it's unstable now, it will be unstable after we leave.

I just as soon we not allow that to potentially happen again.

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What then is an acceptable exit strategy or time table to you? Another year? Another decade?

Desk trauma said:

It was unstable when we invaded, it's unstable now, it will be unstable after we leave.

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True, though I suspect the Northern Alliance wouldn't have held on longer.

What then is an acceptable exit strategy or time table to you? Another year? Another decade?

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I don't think we should end our support of the Afghanistan government until they reach a peace accord with the Taliban. Otherwise the whole point of entering Afghanistan in the first place is made null and they have even more reason to hate us and potentially attack again.

Arcangl86 said:

I don't think we should end our support of the Afghanistan government until they reach a peace accord with the Taliban.

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That would mean an effectively indefinite commitment.

Desk trauma said:

That would mean an effectively indefinite commitment.

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Peace talks are happening now, and we could be supporting them instead of cutting side deals with the Taliban like we have been.

“The history of military conflict in Afghanistan [has] been one of initial success, followed by long years of floundering and ultimate failure. We’re not going to repeat that mistake.”

— President George W. Bush, in a speech at the Virginia Military Institute, April 17th, 2002

...the month prior, Bush's war planners begin diverting resources toward Iraq.......

Timeline: U.S. War in Afghanistan

Nithavela said:

It's not what the majority of Afghans want for their country.

It's what the extremists with guns want for their country.

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How is that the business of the United States of America?

Arcangl86 said:

The United States is the reason the country is unstable though. And the Taliban did give shelter to AQ, which arguably makes 9/11 an act of war against us. I just as soon we not allow that to potentially happen again.

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Actually, Afghanistan is probably the most stable it has been in a very long time. Before the United States, it was Russia. Before Russia, Great Britain. All of them eventually left trying to cut their losses. We should just leave if for no reason than because the country wants us to go. Otherwise, we are the invaders and occupiers that will do nothing but encourage more anger.

grasping the after wind said:

How is that the business of the United States of America?

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I don't know, who invaded that place again?

Oompa Loompa said:

Actually, Afghanistan is probably the most stable it has been in a very long time. Before the United States, it was Russia. Before Russia, Great Britain. All of them eventually left trying to cut their losses. We should just leave if for no reason than because the country wants us to go. Otherwise, we are the invaders and occupiers that will do nothing but encourage more anger.

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That's the question though. Does the country want us to go? The peace deal we signed that promised withdrawal was signed with the Taliban, not the elected government.

Nithavela said:

I don't know, who invaded that place again?

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Does invading a place make further indefinite intrusion legitimate ? Does continuing to enforce one's will upon a nation become moral because one began by enforcing one's will upon that nation?

Arcangl86 said:

That's the question though. Does the country want us to go? The peace deal we signed that promised withdrawal was signed with the Taliban, not the elected government.

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From what I recall, the current peace deal negotiations started in 2019 without the Afghan government at the table. The Taliban refused to negotiate with the government at the table. The Trump Administration, eager to reach a peace accord, finally agreed to proceed without the government in 2019. Understandably, the Afghan government was not happy with that process, arguing it would empower the Taliban further in a post US Afghanistan. On the other hand, there likely would be no peace agreement today if Trump Administration had insisted on the government's participation. Peace efforts date back to 2011 with the Taliban making one condition after another. How long are we willing to keep our troops in the country to wait out a peace deal by all parties? Another decade?

wing2000 said:

From what I recall, the current peace deal negotiations started in 2019 without the Afghan government at the table. The Taliban refused to negotiate with the government at the table. The Trump Administration, eager to reach a peace accord, finally agreed to proceed without the government in 2019. Understandably, the Afghan government was not happy with that process, arguing it would empower the Taliban further in a post US Afghanistan. On the other hand, there likely would be no peace agreement today if Trump Administration had insisted on the government's participation. Peace efforts date back to 2011 with the Taliban making one condition after another. How long are we willing to keep our troops in the country to wait out a peace deal by all parties? Another decade?

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You really think there is a "peace agreement"?

Nithavela said:

You really think there is a "peace agreement"?

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I have no doubt that one exists. I have a similar level of doubt that it will be ignored once we withdraw from the country.

Nithavela said:

You really think there is a "peace agreement"?

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I think there is an agreement (to facilitate a US exit). Peace is unlikely. I expect the Taliban will be back in power within months...

Arcangl86 said:

That's the question though. Does the country want us to go? The peace deal we signed that promised withdrawal was signed with the Taliban, not the elected government.

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Yes...the locals in both Iraq and Afghanistan want us out and see Americans as the invaders and occupiers.

some argue that we should take over their country completely. and you know, why not powerful and better countries free up inferior and evil countries? stability is better than constant chaos. would it really be so bad if a more stable country like russia, usa, or better yet some more local and competent country gave more stability to others? ofc this idea could lead to a huge excuse for big countries to grab up destabilized areas and to even purposefully destabilize an area to justify the taking of it.

no matter what solution we might have there is going to come problems along with them. because humanity as a whole is so imperfect which means we will constantly give birth to inferior solutions.

maybe the world should be divided up by the super elite countries. that entire area is so unstable, no solution of far away countries only halfway trying to solve a problem is going to fix anything. they need to unify and build themselves up rather than tear each other apart, but humans are often barbaric, still living in the most primitive of their biological imperatives. they have hard lives in comparison to first world countries. it's such a tragic state of the world.

Noxot said:

some argue that we should take over their country completely. and you know, why not powerful and better countries free up inferior and evil countries

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Because we would be bled white and bankrupted in the process unless we go back to old school colonial plunder to pay for the adventurism.

Desk trauma said:

Because we would be bled white and bankrupted in the process unless we go back to old school colonial plunder to pay for the adventurism.

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I mean if they have resources that a few elites are hogging to themselves while the rest of the area is constantly being destabilized... but that is what we get for merely being the policemen of the world, acting like we are some supreme figure of justice rather than just being honest as to why we make wars occur. we need a stronger sense of justice and purpose than mere economics. once you can count the peoples of a land as part of yourselves you will treat them better, once they can more fully integrate together..... i hope..

I guess china and russia and germany all thought they had a greater purpose though. a main theme of this reality is surly one challenge after another. no matter what there are going to be problems. first world countries waste way more resources than poorer places.. what humanity needs is a pandemic that wipes more than half of us out then we can focus our struggle against nature rather than on one another.

if the right people are wiped out humans will have more of a chance of making things better. the current state of the world is not sustainable. christians have failed the world by integrating into it too much rather than making better ways of life.