When did exactly incest become incest and abomination to LORD?

Andrewn · Apr 14, 2021

NomNomPizza said:
no not really , most laws were ceremonial and for short time example is eating pig for Jews , it was made for a part of time unclean then it was clean again after Christ died.

Prohibition against eating pork was temporary. But prohibition against inappropriate contenteia / sexual immorality is mentioned 26 times in the NT and one should heed OT commandments to understand what it refers to. These commandments are not temporary.

Saint Steven · Apr 14, 2021

Hank77 said:
I believe that David fully knew the law that Moses gave.

I agree.

Psalm 1:2 NIV
but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on his law day and night.

Psalm 119:97 NIV
מ Mem
Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.

Andrewn · Apr 14, 2021

Saint Steven said:
I agree.

Psalm 1:2 NIV
but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on his law day and night.

Psalm 119:97 NIV
מ Mem
Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.

Psalm 1 & Psalm 119 are not written by David. Still, David could have known about the Law but this is not necessarily the book of Leviticus. I showed examples of David ignoring Leviticus in post #22.

1Ki 2:1 When David’s time to die drew near, he charged his son Solomon, saying: 2 “I am about to go the way of all the earth. Be strong, be courageous, 3 and keep the charge of the Lord your God, walking in his ways and keeping his statutes, his commandments, his ordinances, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, so that you may prosper in all that you do and wherever you turn.

Shrewd Manager · Apr 14, 2021

Where'd you get the idea that Eve was incestuous?

Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (Gen 1:28)

He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. (Gen 5:2)

So there were plenty of people around from Day 6 forward, God just picked out one to begin the story.

Hank77 · Apr 14, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Another thought is around the time the 12 tribes were established the life span change to "no more than 125 years" had taken effect, so this may have had genetic implications that did not apply to the first humans.

Hank77 · Apr 14, 2021

Andrewn said:
It doesn't say that Joshua read from the book of Leviticus, does it? The book of the Law and the words of Moses are recorded in Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

And Leviticus.
Lev. 18
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.

It appears to me that the Book of the Law was given to Moses and it was known and read by Joshua to all the people. Joshua was long before David's time.
Unless someone can give me a reason why the Book of the Law became unknown to the leaders of Israel I have no reason to believe that King David wasn't aware of the incest laws.

Andrewn · Apr 14, 2021

Hank77 said:
It appears to me that the Book of the Law was given to Moses and it was known and read by Joshua to all the people. Joshua was long before David's time.

Joshua 10:13 also mentions the Book of the Just (Jasher). We will never know which Book of the Law or Book of the Just is intended. But the mention of the blessings and curses brings to mind the Book of Deuteronomy.

Hank77 said:
Unless someone can give me a reason why the Book of the Law became unknown to the leaders of Israel I have no reason to believe that King David wasn't aware of the incest laws.

BTW, incest laws are also mentioned in Deuteronomy:

Deu 27:
20 “‘A curse on anyone who has sexual relations with his father’s wife, because he has violated his father’s rights.’ All the people are to say, ‘Amen!’

21 “‘A curse on anyone who has sexual relations with any kind of animal.’ All the people are to say, ‘Amen!’

22 “‘A curse on anyone who has sexual relations with his sister, no matter whether she is the daughter of his father or of his mother.’ All the people are to say, ‘Amen!’

23 “‘A curse on anyone who has sexual relations with his mother-in-law.’ All the people are to say, ‘Amen!’

Deuteronomy is the 3rd most quoted OT book with 44 quotations in the NT. This alone makes it a very important book. (There are 13 quotations from Leviticus in the NT.)

NomNomPizza · Apr 14, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Mixing seeds was a big deal back then, mixing fabrics, even marrying outside of the tribe was a big deal.

The law talked about it Deuteronomy for the reason of it "being for their good"

It wasn't explained why other than an argument about how it looked. (Reasons such as "she is your aunt" and nothing else)

However, in Hebrews it said that Levi paid tithes to Melchizadek because he was in the loins of Abraham. So the spiritual nature of bloodlines and how it leads to the messiah centuries later, isn't really written.

However, it is possible that there was nothing profound about it, except for their safety. This is also common in the law teachings.

Another thought is around the time the 12 tribes were established the life span change to "no more than 125 years" had taken effect, so this may have had genetic implications that did not apply to the first humans.

ye Paul said Jews tweaked timeline so Jesus couldn't be the Messiah because they hated him so I'm not exactly sure how fast it dropped because at one point you see people's lifespan really reduced but depending on which Scriptures you pick some add up to 100 years to each lifespan.
Anyways overall time dropped alot after flood compared to how slowly it dropped untill flood.

NomNomPizza · Apr 14, 2021

FutureAndAHope said:
What? Of course God is against incest, He did not make it illegal (at the time of Moses) then legal again at the time of Christ.

Mat 5:18-19 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

God's moral law does not change.

if it doesn't change then how come Adam and Eve's children married each other?

NomNomPizza · Apr 14, 2021

FutureAndAHope said:
Multiple wives were not God's ideal, he allowed it, but by the Bible, by His law, it was not encouraged. As we see in both the Old and New Testament:

OT:

Deu 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

New Testament:
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

And Deut 17 is saying to just not strive for power , in OT power of man was shown as how much wifes and how much money he has. Still doesn't apply to everybody like I said before God gave David multiple wifes. Even the guy who wrote the whole 5 Books of Law - Moses had 2 wifes.

Ye but most people aren't Bishops or Deacons . It's like saying every man should have long hair because Samson was told to have Long Hair.

Pavel Mosko · Apr 14, 2021

NomNomPizza said:
When and why it became abomination?
Assuming Adam and Eve were created beings and Eve was mother of all living thier kids had to be married to each other and so on untill the genealogy tree spreads alot of branches , at what point and why did God make statement that incest is abomination to him?

I think the Mosaic law is a big touch stone with the passage in Leviticus specifically forbidding various incestual relations with close relatives.

But bother sister incest seems like it was sometimes practiced starting with Abraham coming from UR and may have gone of for a while with a passage or two in the Song of Solomon mentioning that. I do know that the ancient Hebrews did not have a word for cousin and often used brother for it, so maybe this sort of thing is not quite as bad, but a little more removed.

Another related issue that impacted things is the prohibition of marrying outside ones tribe that comes up in Ezra & Nehemiah, where some speculate that was from Persian Zoroastrian influence on later Judaism (because marrying outsiders was not frowned upon in earlier years, where foreign women like Rahab, Ruth etc. could become part of the hereditary line of somebody).

Incest

Andrewn · Apr 14, 2021

Gregory Thompson · Apr 14, 2021

NomNomPizza said:
ye Paul said Jews tweaked timeline so Jesus couldn't be the Messiah because they hated him so I'm not exactly sure how fast it dropped because at one point you see people's lifespan really reduced but depending on which Scriptures you pick some add up to 100 years to each lifespan.
Anyways overall time dropped alot after flood compared to how slowly it dropped untill flood.

Well, there was a Godly curse stating that God will not deal with us forever so He reduced our life spans.

Hank77 · Apr 14, 2021

Pavel Mosko said:
Another related issue that impacted things is the prohibition of marrying outside ones tribe that comes up in Ezra & Nehemiah, where some speculate that was from Persian Zoroastrian influence on later Judaism (because marrying outsiders was not frowned upon in earlier years, where foreign women like Rahab, Ruth etc. could become part of the hereditary line of somebody).

Ruth and Rahad believed in the God of Isreal, they were proselytes to the faith making them no longer foreign women but Israelites.
This is the same as Ivanka Trump Kushner who is a proselyte to the Jewish faith.

However men about celebrating the Passover

Exodus 12:47-49
47The whole congregation of Israel must celebrate it. 48If a foreigner resides with you and wants to celebrate the LORD’s Passover, all the males in the household must be circumcised; then he may come near to celebrate it, and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. 49The same law shall apply to both the native and the foreigner who resides among you.”…

Eloy Craft · Apr 14, 2021

The original reason was to provide 2 sets of grandparents. 1 set when 2 are possible is a disservice to offspring and the sin of incest

When did exactly incest become incest and abomination to LORD?

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