20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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rockytopva

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44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. - Matthew 24
 
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sovereigngrace

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6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1

The two verses that go before Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) support the idea of a spiritual kingdom. The two verses that follow Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) show the Lord giving a spiritual response to their question.

Before the question came Christ was exhorting the disciples on the need for patience as they awaited the empowerment of the Holy Ghost to take the Gospel out to “the whosoever.” Everything about the context is spiritual. The Lord was stating “that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence (Acts 1:4-5).

Surely an unbiased look at these introductory comments would give us insight into what the Lord was teaching and what actually provoked the question that followed it. Undoubtedly the Lord was giving spiritual instruction about a spiritual kingdom that would shortly come with great power and fire? This is not territorial language.

What is “the Promise of the Father” here? Is it a material physical kingdom or is it a spiritual heavenly kingdom? Is it a millennial kingdom similar to this evil age, filled with death and rebellion, or was He speaking of the power of the Holy Ghost that would fall upon the disciples to empower them to bring the good news of Christ to all nations – starting in Jerusalem?

Evidently, Christ was referring to the day of Pentecost where the Church received its Holy Ghost baptism of fire. The whole discourse here is spiritual and revolved around the development of this spiritual kingdom subsequent to Christ’s ascension. Jesus confirms this again in Luke 24:46-49: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (or dunamis) from on high.”

The promise of the Father was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which was a power from on high that endued them for service.

Jesus had previously said to the disciples in Mark 9:1: “Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power (or dunamis).

Christ was speaking of Pentecost. He said the disciples would not die until they had “seen the kingdom come with power” – referring here the Church's baptism of fire to win a lost world. It didn't mean they would die when that happened.

The disciples then interjected with a question: Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

Premillennialists attribute much extravagant, extensive and grandiose detail to this simple question. They build a whole school of thought pertaining to a supposed period after the second coming out of this basic inquiry. They call it a millennial age and make it a Jewish-orientated kingdom. Nevertheless, and significantly, New Testament Scripture knows nothing of such an old-covenant-type Jewish age. That has been reduced to the history books.

What Premillennialists fail to see is: there is no mention of a future period after the second coming in the question, neither is there any intimation of that. There is not even any mention of the second coming, never mind a belief in a thousand-year reign of Christ on a still corrupt earth! No one could derive such a doctrine from this straightforward question. It would have to be taught elsewhere for it to enjoy veracity.

The most that we could take from this is that they may indeed have anticipated the introduction of a parochial, territorial and old-covenant-type physical kingdom. But that is far from a foregone conclusion. We can only, at best, speculate on that. Even if that was their assumption, that in no way proves that it was a legitimate hope. The disciples were often misguided in their expectations and narrow-minded in their tribal aspirations. They frequently saw no further than the borders of Israel. We see that played in the book of Acts, with their reluctance to advance the Gospel to the Gentiles.

It is hard to read the motives and intention of the question. Many times, the disciples were not getting the full meaning of Christ's teaching. He sent His whole ministry correcting and re-directing them. So it could have been a patriotic desire. But Christ's response nails it. That is what is key, not the disciples question. Premils tend to ignore the context and response and just talk about one verse in this narrative. That is because it suits their theology.

Regardless, it doesn’t really matter what the disciples thought, we need to rather ascertain what Christ thought and taught. We should remember: that this question came in the midst of a spiritual discourse about the kingdom of God arriving in power at Pentecost. Christ's reply is key. It is powerful. It is direct. It nails the literalist’s interpretation of this in a carnal earthly sense.

The main issue is not so much what did the disciples mean, it is rather: what was Jesus actually teaching here? Before and after the question the topic was expressly the coming empowerment of the spiritual kingdom of God at Pentecost.

Bible students can speculate all they want as to what was going on in the disciples’ heads. They could debate over whether they were grasping the spiritual thrust of Christ’s teaching about them being part of a spiritual renewal in Israel and further afield, or whether they anticipated the Pharisaical hope of the Messiah overthrowing the Romans and reigning on a physical throne in Jerusalem. Notwithstanding, the most important aspect of this text is not the disciples question, it is Christ’s response.

Whilst it is difficult to understand the thinking of the disciples here, what is clear is what Christ was saying before the question and what Christ said after the question. That is more important than the disciples question. This gives us context to the question. This gives us perspective on what the kingdom really looked like.

Jesus reply to the disciples is telling. He responded: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power (or dunamis), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth (Acts 1:7-8)

If the disciples did have some glorious future natural earthly hope of a Jewish kingdom containing all the old covenant structures, rights and customs then Jesus wasn’t buying into it. In fact, He totally rebuked such a concept by His spiritual response. If their hope was spiritual then He ably explained the development of that spiritual kingdom – from the small nation of Israel to the Gentile nations. He was outlining the great commission and showing them their evangelistic mission field.

Regardless of their thinking, one thing is certain, Christ definitely (and unambiguously) outlines a spiritual response. Christ’s measured response to the disciples’ query supports the notion of a spiritual kingdom in this age; proving it to be in perfect accord with, and a continuation of, His teaching in relation to the kingdom of God (the subject He was undoubtedly advancing prior to the disciples’ enquiry). The nature of Christ’s reply shows us the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God in our current age.

Christ did in no way here ignore or dismiss the disciples’ query about natural Israel, as some would have us believe, rather the contrary, He directly addressed it in His response. In doing so, He reiterated His earlier teaching on the impending spiritual empowerment that would come upon the kingdom, just prior to the disciples’ interjection; only now He geographically confirmed that the spread of that message would embrace the actual nation of Israel (the locations of “Jerusalem,” “Judaea” and “Samaria” being identified). Nonetheless, in His response, He went further, widening out the disciples limited vision, which was still very localised, to encompass “the uttermost part of the earth.”

Christ’s response was that His kingdom was spiritual and not territorial. The focus was not going to be limited to Israel, but would expand to all nations. The disciples would thus, after a short season of tarrying in Jerusalem and an indispensable empowerment from on high, be living “witnesses” of the kingdom of God not only in their own natural land as they had wondered but throughout all the world. This is indeed what happened! This indeed is what is happening right now. This is definitely not talking about some imaginary age sandwiched in-between the second coming of Christ and the new heavens and new earth.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Rapture is not in the Bible but caught up is... Which is the same thing.

Let's stick to Bible terms. There is definitely no Pretrib rapture. That was conceived in the early 1800s by Jesuit priest Manual Lacunza.
 
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rockytopva

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Pentecostal denominations believe in the rapture of the church...

"We believe in the imminent, personal, premillennial second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." - Beliefs - IPHC

"The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the church." - Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

And separate it from the second coming of Christ

The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on earth for one thousand years. - Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

I have no intention of changing these fundamental beliefs.
And a third Pentecostal denomination with churches in our area explaining pre trib...

Premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the dead saints and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. 1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years. Zechariah 14:4; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Jude 14, 15; Revelation 5:10; 19:11-21; 20:4-6.- DOCTRINAL COMMITMENTS - Church Of God

I was also brought up Baptist which was also Pre-trib...

We believe in the pretribulational rapture of the church, an event that can occur at any moment, and that at that moment the dead in Christ shall be raised in glorified bodies, and the living in Christ shall be given glorified bodies without tasting death, and all shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air before the seven years of the Tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 4:13–18; 1 Corinthians 15:42–44, 51–54; Philippians 3:20, 21; Revelation 3:10

We believe that the Tribulation, which follows the rapture of the church, will be culminated by the premillennial return of Christ in power and great glory to sit upon the throne of David and to establish His Kingdom upon this earth.

Daniel 9:25–27; Matthew 24:29–31; Luke 1:30–33; Isaiah 9:6, 7; 11:1–9; Acts 2:29, 30; Revelation 20:1–4, 6 - https://www.garbc.org/about-us/beliefs-constitution/articles-of-faith/

In which I agree with all of these doctrinal statements as biblical truth.
 
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jgr

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And a third Pentecostal denomination with churches in our area explaining pre trib...

Premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the dead saints and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. 1 Corinthians 15:52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years. Zechariah 14:4; 1 Thessalonians 4:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Jude 14, 15; Revelation 5:10; 19:11-21; 20:4-6.- DOCTRINAL COMMITMENTS - Church Of God

I was also brought up Baptist which was also Pre-trib...

We believe in the pretribulational rapture of the church, an event that can occur at any moment, and that at that moment the dead in Christ shall be raised in glorified bodies, and the living in Christ shall be given glorified bodies without tasting death, and all shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air before the seven years of the Tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 4:13–18; 1 Corinthians 15:42–44, 51–54; Philippians 3:20, 21; Revelation 3:10

We believe that the Tribulation, which follows the rapture of the church, will be culminated by the premillennial return of Christ in power and great glory to sit upon the throne of David and to establish His Kingdom upon this earth.

Daniel 9:25–27; Matthew 24:29–31; Luke 1:30–33; Isaiah 9:6, 7; 11:1–9; Acts 2:29, 30; Revelation 20:1–4, 6 - https://www.garbc.org/about-us/beliefs-constitution/articles-of-faith/

In which I agree with all of these doctrinal statements as biblical truth.

Can you find a pretrib rapture in the London Baptist Confession of 1689?
 
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keras

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In which I agree with all of these doctrinal statements as biblical truth.
Actually the Pentecostal Church I belong to, does not believe in a 'rapture' before the Great Trib and the pastor simply avoids any prophecy. Too controversial!

Doctrinal Statements do NOT over-ride Bible truths.
The Bible is quite clear: we must endure until the end.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Many of us were brought up with that teaching but have moved from Pretrib through reading the Word of God.

Where is your biblical evidence that teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by a 7 year tribulation, followed by 3rd coming?
 
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rockytopva

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Actually the Pentecostal Church I belong to, does not believe in a 'rapture' before the Great Trib and the pastor simply avoids any prophecy. Too controversial!

Doctrinal Statements do NOT over-ride Bible truths.
The Bible is quite clear: we must endure until the end.
is that Pentecostal church part of a denomination? What denomination believes like you do?
 
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keras

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is that Pentecostal church part of a denomination? What denomination believes like you do?
My Church - www.thameselimchurch
There are some members who do believe in a 'rapture'. But the pastor doesn't, but as I say end times things simply are not discussed.

Your website may have many hits, 'rapture' believers like to read anything that supports their unbiblical theory.
They are all set up for a mighty fall on the Day the Lord takes action to destroy the ungodly and to winnow out the lukewarm, nominal Christians who want to escape any trials and testing. Matthew 3:10-12
 
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rockytopva

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I have a web site at youtube.com/rockytopva which is nearing 3,000,000 views with a lot of RW Schambach sermons.... Rapture teachings included! Scripture too!

As the topic of the sermon went...

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; - Colossians 1:23

I would hope that the Laodicean eschatology does not remove folk from the true hope of the Gospel and they end up lukewarm.
 
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rockytopva

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And...

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3
 
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BABerean2

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And...

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3

John Wesley never promoted a pretrib removal of the Church.

.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I have a web site at youtube.com/rockytopva which is nearing 3,000,000 views with a lot of RW Schambach sermons.... Rapture teachings included! Scripture too!


All this, and you are unable to give us any Scripture to support your beliefs.

This view was unknown to the fathers of the faith right through the Reformers, Puritans, Covenanters, Whitefield, Wesley, Edward's, etc, etc. It was invented by the Jesuit Lacunza.
 
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Was Christ's resurrection not the first resurrection and don't Christians all have part in His resurrection?

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Are believers not already "priests of God and of Christ" and do we not already reign with Him, as written here:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

According to Revelation 1:5-6, Revelation 20:6 is a current reality for believers (not only those whose souls are with Christ in heaven, but also those who are alive on earth today). We should use scripture to interpret scripture to determine the meaning of any given verse or passage.

Also, notice that Rev 20:6 indicates that the second death has no power over those who have had part in the first resurrection. Does the second death have power over the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven now? I don't believe so.

Is a bodily resurrection required in order for the second death to not have power over someone? I don't believe so. I'm pretty sure the second death does not have any power over any of the dead in Christ. So, why would we think that their future bodily resurrection would be required in order for the second death to not have power over them?
Are souls without bodies? How can a soul be a priest or rule? A soul cannot even function without the physical intake of the bodily senses. The soul is just software without any hardware.

Even this cloud most refer to as "being above" with all our data, is still thousands of hardware computers doing their job of storing that data. The soul is not a body within a body. It is electrical synapses and is nothing without a body. It is not a ghost technically. Perhaps abstractly if God allows.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1
How does this support the pre-trib rapture view?

Did Jesus pray for His people to be taken out of the world to avoid tribulation?

John 17:15 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

You are hoping for something (a pre-trib rapture) that Jesus prayed would not happen. Have you ever thought about that?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Are souls without bodies? How can a soul be a priest or rule? A soul cannot even function without the physical intake of the bodily senses. The soul is just software without any hardware.
Where are you getting this from? Certainly not from scripture. Does the following indicate that souls can't function without a body?

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

This passage says that John saw souls and they were talking to the Lord. So, they were clearly functioning even though they had been killed and didn't have bodies. You need to form your opinions from scripture instead of your imagination.
 
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rockytopva

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How does this support the pre-trib rapture view?

Did Jesus pray for His people to be taken out of the world to avoid tribulation?

John 17:15 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

You are hoping for something (a pre-trib rapture) that Jesus prayed would not happen. Have you ever thought about that?
My reply in the form of a sermon in which supports the following scriptures...

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; - Colossians 1:23

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3

The rapture belief encourages purity of spirit....

 
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My reply in the form of a sermon in which supports the following scriptures...

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; - Colossians 1:23

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3

The rapture belief encourages purity of spirit....
I have no interest in watching your videos. Those verses do not support the pre-trib rapture doctrine at all. And the pre-trib rapture belief doesn't encourage purity of spirit any more than the post-trib rapture belief does.
 
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