Evangelicals under attack

WonbyOneanddone

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White Evangelicals’ Un-Christian Attacks on Raphael Warnock Attacks Say It All

With the advent of a large section of the Evangelical population in the US supporting Trump, it stands to reason that much of the ire that went towards Trump is now going toward those that supported him.

The accusation in the article is that evangelicals are unchristian as it centers on recently elected Congressman Warnock in Georgia as the focal point.

Here are the charges

1. It condemned Christians for criticizing Warnock for supporting condemnation on the recent election law passed by the state legislature of Gerogia citing the law as "racist". The article did not debate the racism of the new law, it just assumed it was so.
2. It condemned Christians having an issue with Warnock's position on abortion, as Warnock calls it "reproductive justice".
3. It took issue with evangelicals having an issue with Warnock posting this, “the meaning of Easter is more transcendent than the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Whether you are Christian or not, through a commitment to helping others we are able to save ourselves”. Warnock quickly deleted it but evangelicals ran with it and quick to criticize him for the post. The article states, "so enraged very-online white evangelicals that they spent the holiest day in the Christian calendar casting judgment, labeling Warnock a “heretic,” a “narcissistic heretic,”
4. The article pointed out how Warnock is criticized by Evangelical as being more concerned about the politics of social justice than the gospel of Christ, with many saying he should have the title "Reverend" removed from his name.
5. Makes the assertion that with Evangelical support of the new Georgia law, that they are racist and want to delegitimize the black vote and deradicalize the message of MLK, the church that Warnock was a preacher. This quote pretty much sums it all up. "Those attacks are at their core about the fundamental conflict between white evangelical Christianity in America, which is both steeped in and deeply protective of the white supremacist capitalist status quo, and the traditional Black Christian church, a site of transformative racial justice."
6. The article then begins to demonize Christianity as a whole. "American Christianity’s theological core has been thoroughly structured by an interest in protecting white supremacy… not only among Evangelicals in the South but also along mainline Protestants in the Midwest and Catholics in the Northeast.”
7. It then makes the assertion that the closest thing to true Christianity is what is referred to as Black Liberation Theology. “Even though folks wanted them to preach that they’d be blessed in “the great by and by,” they went to Exodus, and the story of Moses, and that laid the basis of what James Cone called “Liberation Theology”—that God stands most closely with the oppressed, and that God actively works to free the oppressed. If we love God, then we have to do the same thing. So that's woven into the Black church. There's a rejection of rugged individualism, and a sense that we have to make sure that everybody's OK. And if that means fighting for justice and fairness and equity, you have to do that. It ain't about ‘the sweet by and by,’ it's about what you're going to do while you're here.”
8. It makes the charge the Christians view the suffering of Blacks as them not trying. "Indeed, white Christianity retains the attitudes of its founders. A 2018 study by the Public Religion Research Institute found most white Christians across the board—53 percent of white evangelicals, 52 percent of white Catholics and 51 percent of white mainline Protestants—believe “socioeconomic disparities between black and white Americans are due to lack of effort by black Americans.”

Where to begin?
 
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RDKirk

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What has been identified is what I believe is a great spiritual delusion, a lying principality, that has overcome an immense proportion of white Evangelicals in America.

I believe God has "given them over" to that delusion because they have adulterated their citizenship in heaven and the preaching of the gospel with their American nationalism.

Thumping a bible does not scare away lying principalities.
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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What has been identified is what I believe is a great spiritual delusion, a lying principality, that has overcome an immense proportion of white Evangelicals in America.

I believe God has "given them over" to that delusion because they have adulterated their citizenship in heaven and the preaching of the gospel with their American nationalism.

Thumping a bible does not scare away lying principalities.
Well I happen to be an evangelical. And I happened to vote for Trump. As such, I would like to answer these allegations directed at me.

1. I don't view the Georgia election law passed as racist. It does not target anyone by race, and merely addresses concerns about voter integrity. For example, I don't view requiring an ID to vote as being racist. To the contrary, I would say that assuming the requiring voter ID would prevent blacks from voting is racist because they are incapable of producing the said ID. Are we to assume that the black population is incapable of producing an ID? If so, why? However, if, in fact, there is a problem with obtaining a proper ID for blacks, why not address that issue instead of just letting anyone vote at any time and as many times as they want?

2. As for abortion, Warnock called it reproductive justice. Do you agree? But if we take a look at abortion in the US, it seems that abortion advocates are the ones that are racist. Why is it that about 86% of abortion clinics target black neighborhoods?

Planned Parenthood Puts 86% of Its Abortion Facilities in Minority Neighborhoods

And why is it there have been more black abortions than births in New York City?

Tragic report: More Black babies are aborted in New York City than are born

Where is people like Warnock on these issues or is he for the systematic eradication of the black race?

3. As for the comment on Easter being more about saving ourselves than Christ saving us, this is truly heretical. What say you?

4. If Warnock wants to continue to be called Reverend, that is up to him. I am certainly not the Reverend police. But at the same time, as Christians should we not call out people we deem to be heretical to the faith, especially since that is what Christ did. Remember, Christ only attacked "religious leaders" who did not represent him properly.

5 I know that my own church is well integrated and evangelical. To make such broad sweeping accusations such as this is an outrage. To make such broad sweeping bigoted statements is akin to making broad sweeping statements about black people, statements like the entire black community can't afford a voter ID.

6. How is it that all of Christianity is racist? For example, does anyone know that Billy Graham worked with MLK to help give blacks their legal rights? Again, more wide sweeping bigoted accusations.

7. Black Liberation theology has its roots in believing that the state should do the Lord's work. I simply don't think that the state should assume the role of the church, and vice versa. Christ certainly did not take this approach, and he made it a point to say that his kingdom was not of this world, nor could be. If we don't want the state to make policy about such things as abortion/gay marriage, then why anything else? Do do so seems very hypocritical.

8. Now this is a tough one. I know of many people who blame blacks for remaining in poverty. Is it all their fault? What I do know is that with about 75% of the black homes are single parent homes, you will be hard pressed to get them out of poverty, including all the crime that accompanies young black men having their only father figure from someone off the streets. Sadly, I think that the government welfare system is mainly to blame as well as a deterioration of the church within the black community. The state makes it so women can survive without a husband, while at the same time not preventing them from escaping poverty. You can thumb your nose at God all day regarding his laws on such issues, but at the end of the day you will lose if you defy his mandates. Single parent homes equals poverty.
 
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RDKirk

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RDKirk said:
What has been identified is what I believe is a great spiritual delusion, a lying principality, that has overcome an immense proportion of white Evangelicals in America.

I believe God has "given them over" to that delusion because they have adulterated their citizenship in heaven and the preaching of the gospel with their American nationalism.

Thumping a bible does not scare away lying principalities.

WonbyOneanddone quoted that post and responded:

Well I happen to be an evangelical. And I happened to vote for Trump. As such, I would like to answer these allegations directed at me.

I didn't direct any allegations at you. But I wonder what prompts your feeling that I did.

However, if, in fact, there is a problem with obtaining a proper ID for blacks, why not address that issue instead of just letting anyone vote at any time and as many times as they want?

There is no evidence that anyone voted "as many times as they want." But I wonder what prompts you to think that anyone did.

I didn't say anything about abortion. But I wonder what prompts you to respond to me about abortion when I said nothing about abortion.

3. As for the comment on Easter being more about saving ourselves than Christ saving us, this is truly heretical. What say you?

I don't celebrate Easter. I do celebrate Resurrection Day.

4. If Warnock wants to continue to be called Reverend, that is up to him. I am certainly not the Reverend police. But at the same time, as Christians should we not call out people we deem to be heretical to the faith, especially since that is what Christ did. Remember, Christ only attacked "religious leaders" who did not represent him properly.

That does go both ways.

5 I know that my own church is well integrated and evangelical. To make such broad sweeping accusations such as this is an outrage. To make such broad sweeping bigoted statements is akin to making broad sweeping statements about black people, statements like the entire black community can't afford a voter ID.

What you might want to do, though--just as a little experiment--is go to your closest black friends in your church...the ones in your prayer group or your small group, the ones you have prayed for and with and shared personal intimacies (you have gotten together with some of those black people in your congregation like that, right?)...and ask them if they've ever had uncomfortable moments as black people while in your church, and what made them uncomfortable.

How is it that all of Christianity is racist? For example, does anyone know that Billy Graham worked with MLK to help give blacks their legal rights? Again, more wide sweeping bigoted accusations.

Actually, he never did use the adjective "all." You did that. You're the only one who has done that.

Black Liberation theology has its roots in believing that the state should do the Lord's work. I simply don't think that the state should assume the role of the church, and vice versa. Christ certainly did not take this approach, and he made it a point to say that his kingdom was not of this world, nor could be. If we don't want the state to make policy about such things as abortion/gay marriage, then why anything else? Do do so seems very hypocritical.

And yet, you do "want the state to make policy about such things as abortion/gay marriage" and get involved in doing the Lord's work.

Now this is a tough one. I know of many people who blame blacks for remaining in poverty. Is it all their fault? What I do know is that with about 75% of the black homes are single parent homes, you will be hard pressed to get them out of poverty, including all the crime that accompanies young black men having their only father figure from someone off the streets. Sadly, I think that the government welfare system is mainly to blame as well as a deterioration of the church within the black community. The state makes it so women can survive without a husband, while at the same time not preventing them from escaping poverty. You can thumb your nose at God all day regarding his laws on such issues, but at the end of the day you will lose if you defy his mandates. Single parent homes equals poverty.

What would Jesus do?
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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RDKirk said:
What has been identified is what I believe is a great spiritual delusion, a lying principality, that has overcome an immense proportion of white Evangelicals in America.

I believe God has "given them over" to that delusion because they have adulterated their citizenship in heaven and the preaching of the gospel with their American nationalism.

Thumping a bible does not scare away lying principalities.

WonbyOneanddone quoted that post and responded:



I didn't direct any allegations at you. But I wonder what prompts your feeling that I did.



There is no evidence that anyone voted "as many times as they want." But I wonder what prompts you to think that anyone did.

I didn't say anything about abortion. But I wonder what prompts you to respond to me about abortion when I said nothing about abortion.



I don't celebrate Easter. I do celebrate Resurrection Day.



That does go both ways.



What you might want to do, though--just as a little experiment--is go to your closest black friends in your church...the ones in your prayer group or your small group, the ones you have prayed for and with and shared personal intimacies (you have gotten together with some of those black people in your congregation like that, right?)...and ask them if they've ever had uncomfortable moments as black people while in your church, and what made them uncomfortable.



Actually, he never did use the adjective "all." You did that. You're the only one who has done that.



And yet, you do "want the state to make policy about such things as abortion/gay marriage" and get involved in doing the Lord's work.



What would Jesus do?
What has been identified is what I believe is a great spiritual delusion, a lying principality, that has overcome an immense proportion of white Evangelicals in America.

I believe God has "given them over" to that delusion because they have adulterated their citizenship in heaven and the preaching of the gospel with their American nationalism.

Thumping a bible does not scare away lying principalities.


Virtually anything can become idolatry. For example, if Warnock has replaced the morality of God and his church with that of the DNC, by embracing such things as abortion on demand, Anything that is put before God becomes idolatry. As for people wanting their politicians to represent them, that is, represent the nation instead of those abroad, that is their job.

Just because voters want them to do their job does not make them white supremacists, nor does it mean they have succumb to idolatry.

I find it very odd you would condemn Bible thumping and then suggest evangelicals have abandoned their God for Trump and white nationalism.

Christ was a dark skinned Jew, that is, for those who are Bible thumpers.
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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What you might want to do, though--just as a little experiment--is go to your closest black friends in your church...the ones in your prayer group or your small group, the ones you have prayed for and with and shared personal intimacies (you have gotten together with some of those black people in your congregation like that, right?)...and ask them if they've ever had uncomfortable moments as black people while in your church, and what made them uncomfortable.

One such black man I know is a police officer. He routinely is yelled at by other blacks on the streets with charges of "selling out" or being an "Uncle Tom". To my knowledge, he has not been treated remotely as bad in our church.
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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And yet, you do "want the state to make policy about such things as abortion/gay marriage" and get involved in doing the Lord's work.

It is my belief that the state should not be in the marriage business at all. Why should it be? Why should married folk have rights that single folk don't have? It makes zero sense. Marriage should just be a church affair. That way people will stop getting married for the perks of marriage, like the state perks or like taking half of what they have after a divorce, etc. That way maybe the only ones who get married are the ones who actually want to get married with the only reason to get married is to honor their God. Divorce would plummet off a cliff.

As for abortion, the issue is personhood, something that the state should have an active interest in. For example, at one point in US history blacks were treated ad 3/5 human, or some similar nonsense.

Roe vs. Wade made no attempt to assess the personhood of the unborn, something I think is criminal. They just assigned them property as slaves used to be..
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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RDKirk said:
What has been identified is what I believe is a great spiritual delusion, a lying principality, that has overcome an immense proportion of white Evangelicals in America.

I believe God has "given them over" to that delusion because they have adulterated their citizenship in heaven and the preaching of the gospel with their American nationalism.

Thumping a bible does not scare away lying principalities.

WonbyOneanddone quoted that post and responded:



I didn't direct any allegations at you. But I wonder what prompts your feeling that I did.



There is no evidence that anyone voted "as many times as they want." But I wonder what prompts you to think that anyone did.

I didn't say anything about abortion. But I wonder what prompts you to respond to me about abortion when I said nothing about abortion.



I don't celebrate Easter. I do celebrate Resurrection Day.



That does go both ways.



What you might want to do, though--just as a little experiment--is go to your closest black friends in your church...the ones in your prayer group or your small group, the ones you have prayed for and with and shared personal intimacies (you have gotten together with some of those black people in your congregation like that, right?)...and ask them if they've ever had uncomfortable moments as black people while in your church, and what made them uncomfortable.



Actually, he never did use the adjective "all." You did that. You're the only one who has done that.



And yet, you do "want the state to make policy about such things as abortion/gay marriage" and get involved in doing the Lord's work.



What would Jesus do?
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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What would Jesus do?

Jesus would preach the word. Notice he never blamed anyone for anything, other than the religious leaders like Warnock for not guiding his flock correctly. His main beef was those leading his flock astray. I think Warnock fits the bill.

I find it abhorrent, for example that Warnock would lead the charge to get the All Star game moved from Atlanta, considering that Atlanta is mostly black. They will lose millions, and for what?

To me, that is the very definition of Jim Crow, which is keep the blacks poor.
 
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White Evangelicals’ Un-Christian Attacks on Raphael Warnock Attacks Say It All

With the advent of a large section of the Evangelical population in the US supporting Trump, it stands to reason that much of the ire that went towards Trump is now going toward those that supported him.

The accusation in the article is that evangelicals are unchristian as it centers on recently elected Congressman Warnock in Georgia as the focal point.

Here are the charges

1. It condemned Christians for criticizing Warnock for supporting condemnation on the recent election law passed by the state legislature of Gerogia citing the law as "racist". The article did not debate the racism of the new law, it just assumed it was so.
2. It condemned Christians having an issue with Warnock's position on abortion, as Warnock calls it "reproductive justice".
3. It took issue with evangelicals having an issue with Warnock posting this, “the meaning of Easter is more transcendent than the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Whether you are Christian or not, through a commitment to helping others we are able to save ourselves”. Warnock quickly deleted it but evangelicals ran with it and quick to criticize him for the post. The article states, "so enraged very-online white evangelicals that they spent the holiest day in the Christian calendar casting judgment, labeling Warnock a “heretic,” a “narcissistic heretic,”
4. The article pointed out how Warnock is criticized by Evangelical as being more concerned about the politics of social justice than the gospel of Christ, with many saying he should have the title "Reverend" removed from his name.
5. Makes the assertion that with Evangelical support of the new Georgia law, that they are racist and want to delegitimize the black vote and deradicalize the message of MLK, the church that Warnock was a preacher. This quote pretty much sums it all up. "Those attacks are at their core about the fundamental conflict between white evangelical Christianity in America, which is both steeped in and deeply protective of the white supremacist capitalist status quo, and the traditional Black Christian church, a site of transformative racial justice."
6. The article then begins to demonize Christianity as a whole. "American Christianity’s theological core has been thoroughly structured by an interest in protecting white supremacy… not only among Evangelicals in the South but also along mainline Protestants in the Midwest and Catholics in the Northeast.”
7. It then makes the assertion that the closest thing to true Christianity is what is referred to as Black Liberation Theology. “Even though folks wanted them to preach that they’d be blessed in “the great by and by,” they went to Exodus, and the story of Moses, and that laid the basis of what James Cone called “Liberation Theology”—that God stands most closely with the oppressed, and that God actively works to free the oppressed. If we love God, then we have to do the same thing. So that's woven into the Black church. There's a rejection of rugged individualism, and a sense that we have to make sure that everybody's OK. And if that means fighting for justice and fairness and equity, you have to do that. It ain't about ‘the sweet by and by,’ it's about what you're going to do while you're here.”
8. It makes the charge the Christians view the suffering of Blacks as them not trying. "Indeed, white Christianity retains the attitudes of its founders. A 2018 study by the Public Religion Research Institute found most white Christians across the board—53 percent of white evangelicals, 52 percent of white Catholics and 51 percent of white mainline Protestants—believe “socioeconomic disparities between black and white Americans are due to lack of effort by black Americans.”

Where to begin?
I'm still searching the Bible for those verses that would support the above conservative brand of religion that is being portrayed as Christianity!

Where are the Scriptures that condemn society's poor and sick as responsible for their own lack of success, or for Christians to consummate an "unholy alliance" with a dictatorial, narcissistic, septuagenarian billionaire with ties to "white supremacists" and "domestic terrorists?"

There is, however, a reoccurring theme throughout both the Old and New Testaments that warns of "FALSE PROPHETS" leading God's people astray!
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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I'm still searching the Bible for those verses that would support the above conservative brand of religion that is being portrayed as Christianity!

Where are the Scriptures that condemn society's poor and sick as responsible for their own lack of success, or for Christians to consummate an "unholy alliance" with a dictatorial, narcissistic, septuagenarian billionaire with ties to "white supremacists" and "domestic terrorists?"

There is, however, a reoccurring theme throughout both the Old and New Testaments that warns of "FALSE PROPHETS" leading God's people astray!

Why is it when Christians vote Republican we are accused of a whole new brand of Christianity as we are accused of trying to meld together those worldly candidates into our religion in the process, however, when Christians vote democrat they are not? The charge is absurd. I don't incorporate Trump or any other Republican candidate into my theology. Trump is portrayed by you and the media as the only politician out there that lies. The only politician that commits adultery, etc. Again, those charges are absurd. This sort of behavior is common place in both parties in American politics. In fact, did you even know that Joe Biden has been accused of sexual assault from one of his former aids? As for false prophets, what does the Bible have to say about abortion? What say you? Is it really mass genocide as the church has claimed? If so, it would be akin to "Christians" in Nazi Germany voting for Hitler because he had swell socialist policies. In fact, did you know that Hitler subsidized his people through socialism to the point that their standard of living exceeding those in the rest of the world? He essentially bought the hearts and minds of people through socialism, a people who were war weary and steeped in genocide. They sold their very souls to him. But the greatest irony regarding Trump is, he is also referred to as Hitler. So how many wars did Trump start exactly? It seems to me that not only has Trump opposed the mass genocide of abortion, he also was the first President in a very, very, long time not to start a war abroad. How is it then that Trump is a terrorist and a dictator? That is quit the accusation coming from a Christian so I would assume you can back that up, right? I have also heard Trump condemn white supremacists. You can easily find this on places like YouTube. However, the media continues to insist that he refuses to condemn them, and when Trump has condemned them, they ignore it and continue with their lies that he does not. Recently the head of CNN even admitted they were "out to destroy Trump". So does that sound very Christian to you?

As for blaming people for their lack of success, again, any segment of society that turns its back on the righteousness of God will suffer. Any segment of society that decides to begin to have children out of wedlock will suffer. That segment of society will continue to experience poverty and all the perks that come with it, drug abuse, violence, higher crime, etc. No amount of government money thrown at this will fix it, in fact, subsidizing it has only shown to make it worse. The only thing that can fix this is promoting the gospel to these people, not government policy to give them more free stuff. Or do you really believe that the government can overcome continued sex out of wed lock? Is God going to bless them as a culture to the tune of 75% of the families having children out of wedlock as fathers reject their responsibilities to that mother and child? If so, I have a bridge I would like to sell you. But as a nation, a nation that has embraced Roe vs. Wade, a nation that has murdered over 50 million babies, that nation is also thumbing their nose at God. So can politicians pass legislation to save that nation from the wrath of God? No. Judgement will come, which is perhaps why God has allowed the leaders we have now.
 
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WonbyOneanddone

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I'll say the same thing about Warnock as I have about Huckabee and other former pastors who went into politics.

If a pastor decides that politics suits him more than the pulpit, he's probably right.
As we see with Warnock, the way to make Jesus "cool" to the world is to have Jesus bow his knee to the DNC and Karl Marx. All of a sudden, no charges of false prophets in the church who support him from the press. All of a sudden, there is no problem with melding church in state, in fact, it is promoted as Jesus wants us to vote democrat to help the poor folk through the welfare state. I wonder how many poor folk Warnock helped in Atlanta by helping to move the All Star game to Colorado instead of Atlanta, the same people who elected him? Billions of dollars have been lost to those who voted for him. Then again, perhaps they are happy with the $1400 stimulus check he promised them if elected. Perhaps that dollar amount was enough to buy them.

But that is the price you pay when mixing the church and state. We saw those abuses with the Catholic church over the years with their Inquisitions and Jewish persecution, etc. There is no redeeming the corrupting power given men through the vice of politics.
 
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