20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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Timtofly

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There cannot be immortals during the Millennium earthly reign of King Jesus. The ONLY people resurrected when Jesus Returns are the GT martyrs and even they do not yet receive immortality.

All must die? Can't you see 1 Corinthians 15:31?
But that does not happen until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
I never said immortals. There are no immortals on earth.

The GWT is only dead souls. If you give them bodies, that is your speculation. I don't see them having bodies in Revelation 20. Why would people who never died physically be at the GWT?
 
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keras

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I never said immortals. There are no immortals on earth.

The GWT is only dead souls. If you give them bodies, that is your speculation. I don't see them having bodies in Revelation 20. Why would people who never died physically be at the GWT?
There will still be living humans at the end of the Millennium. Proved by Isaiah 65:20 and 1 Cor 15:51
But, yes; I think all the dead who stand before God on His Great White Throne, are spiritual entities. They do not get new bodies, only those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality and go with God into Eternity.
 
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rockytopva

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There will still be living humans at the end of the Millennium. Proved by Isaiah 65:20 and 1 Cor 15:51
But, yes; I think all the dead who stand before God on His Great White Throne, are spiritual entities. They do not get new bodies, only those whose names are found in the Book of Life will receive immortality and go with God into Eternity.
I look forward to being raptured up in some time unlooked for and then returning with Christ to reign a thousand years...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.- Revelation 20:6
 
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BABerean2

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Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:


Since the Two Witnesses are bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, can the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20 be the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation?
Or, are there two types of resurrection in the Book of John? John also recorded the Book of Revelation.
One is spiritual, and the other is bodily.


Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.



.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The first resurrection is physical. All souls resurrected are given incorruptible bodies. It does not go back in time. You were not resurrected physically at the Cross. You were not even born yet. Are we all going back to the first century at the Second Coming?

We have our part or portion "in Christ" and His "first resurrection " 2000 through our spiritual union with Christ in salvation.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I look forward to being raptured up in some time unlooked for and then returning with Christ to reign a thousand years...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.- Revelation 20:6

Who is "the first resurrection" in Acts 26:23 and Rev 20:6?

Who is "the firstborn from the dead" in Colossians 1:18?

Who is "the firstfruits of them that slept" in 1 Corinthians 15:20?

Who is "first begotten of the dead" in Revelation 1:5?
 
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keras

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I look forward to being raptured up in some time unlooked for and then returning with Christ to reign a thousand years...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.- Revelation 20:6
Your belief is just not Biblical. There is no removal to heaven of anyone excepting the 2 Witnesses and Jesus Returns with the armies of heaven.

To qualify for resurrection when Jesus Returns, you must be killed by the 'beast' during his 42 month time of world control. Revelation 20:4
No doubt the 'beast' will have some very nasty ways of slowly killing Christians. Ready for that, are you?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I look forward to being raptured up in some time unlooked for and then returning with Christ to reign a thousand years...

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.- Revelation 20:6
Was Christ's resurrection not the first resurrection and don't Christians all have part in His resurrection?

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Are believers not already "priests of God and of Christ" and do we not already reign with Him, as written here:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

According to Revelation 1:5-6, Revelation 20:6 is a current reality for believers (not only those whose souls are with Christ in heaven, but also those who are alive on earth today). We should use scripture to interpret scripture to determine the meaning of any given verse or passage.

Also, notice that Rev 20:6 indicates that the second death has no power over those who have had part in the first resurrection. Does the second death have power over the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven now? I don't believe so.

Is a bodily resurrection required in order for the second death to not have power over someone? I don't believe so. I'm pretty sure the second death does not have any power over any of the dead in Christ. So, why would we think that their future bodily resurrection would be required in order for the second death to not have power over them?
 
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rockytopva

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Was Christ's resurrection not the first resurrection and don't Christians all have part in His resurrection?

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Are believers not already "priests of God and of Christ" and do we not already reign with Him, as written here:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

According to Revelation 1:5-6, Revelation 20:6 is a current reality for believers (not only those whose souls are with Christ in heaven, but also those who are alive on earth today). We should use scripture to interpret scripture to determine the meaning of any given verse or passage.

Also, notice that Rev 20:6 indicates that the second death has no power over those who have had part in the first resurrection. Does the second death have power over the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven now? I don't believe so.

Is a bodily resurrection required in order for the second death to not have power over someone? I don't believe so. I'm pretty sure the second death does not have any power over any of the dead in Christ. So, why would we think that their future bodily resurrection would be required in order for the second death to not have power over them?
The difference between the rapture and the second coming...

1. The rapture will not be well announced
2. The second coming will

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

Those holy, both alive and dead, will rise together to meet the Lord Jesus in the air...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Those blessed and holy will return with Christ to reign a thousand years and will escape the second death...

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. - Revelation 20:4

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. - Revelation 20:5

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:6

When we return with Christ after the rapture we will do so with garments white and clean....

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14











At the rapture

1.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The difference between the rapture and the second coming...

1. The rapture will not be well announced
2. The second coming will

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:44
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. - Luke 12:40

Those holy, both alive and dead, will rise together to meet the Lord Jesus in the air...

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Those blessed and holy will return with Christ to reign a thousand years and will escape the second death...

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. - Revelation 20:4

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. - Revelation 20:5

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:6

When we return with Christ after the rapture we will do so with garments white and clean....

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. - Revelation 19:14











At the rapture

1.
You didn't address my points specifically. Instead, you shared your pretrib view. Why? I already know what pretribs believe, so you don't need to explain that to me. Can you please go back to post #2812 and address the points I made?
 
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rockytopva

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Your belief is just not Biblical. There is no removal to heaven of anyone excepting the 2 Witnesses and Jesus Returns with the armies of heaven.

To qualify for resurrection when Jesus Returns, you must be killed by the 'beast' during his 42 month time of world control. Revelation 20:4
No doubt the 'beast' will have some very nasty ways of slowly killing Christians. Ready for that, are you?
Pentecostal denominations believe in the rapture of the church...

"We believe in the imminent, personal, premillennial second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." - Beliefs - IPHC

"The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the church." - Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

And separate it from the second coming of Christ

The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on earth for one thousand years. - Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

I have no intention of changing these fundamental beliefs.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Pentecostal denominations believe in the rapture of the church...

"We believe in the imminent, personal, premillennial second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." - Beliefs - IPHC

"The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the church." - Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

And separate it from the second coming of Christ

The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on earth for one thousand years. - Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site | Assemblies of God 16 Fundamental Truths

I have no intention of changing these fundamental beliefs.
Are you not able to think for yourself? You need a denomination to tell you what to believe?

This passage talks about Christ coming with and for His saints at the same time:

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Who will be coming with Jesus? The souls of the dead in Christ. Who is He coming for? Those who are alive and remain. They will be caught up to meet Christ along with the dead in Christ, whose bodies will be resurrected, changed and united with their souls. There is no basis for turning this into two separate events. Jesus will not be descending from heaven twice in the future, He will be descending once.
 
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rockytopva

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You didn't address my points specifically. Instead, you shared your pretrib view. Why? I already know what pretribs believe, so you don't need to explain that to me. Can you please go back to post #2812 and address the points I made?
I don't know exactly. What I do know is...

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

If you and I remain holy and blessed maybe we can discuss it more then, and laugh a little as we may have mis-predicted a tad.
 
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rockytopva

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Are you not able to think for yourself? You need a denomination to tell you what to believe?

This passage talks about Christ coming with and for His saints at the same time:

1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Who will be coming with Jesus? The souls of the dead in Christ. Who is He coming for? Those who are alive and remain. They will be caught up to meet Christ along with the dead in Christ, whose bodies will be resurrected, changed and united with their souls. There is no basis for turning this into two separate events. Jesus will not be descending from heaven twice in the future, He will be descending once.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1
 
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rockytopva

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Even in the early church they looked for a rapture...

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2
 
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BABerean2

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13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


.
 
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jgr

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Even in the early church they looked for a rapture...

Provide names, dates, sources, and verbatim quotes of any "they" in the early church who looked for a rapture.
 
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jgr

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I don't know exactly. What I do know is...

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 16:15

If you and I remain holy and blessed maybe we can discuss it more then, and laugh a little as we may have mis-predicted a tad.

The first resurrection, which raises us up from the first death, the spiritual death of our sins, to spiritual life together with Christ who is Himself the first resurrection; is the salvation experience which makes us blessed and holy:

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

John 5
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

For those of us who experience this first resurrection, the second death, i.e. eternal punishment; no longer has any power over us, for Christ has declared that whoever believes in Him will never die (John 11:26), and Paul tells us that “death is swallowed up in victory” (1 Corinthians 15:54).

No waiting required for the first resurrection.

We are alive today in Christ.
 
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Even in the early church they looked for a rapture...

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; - Titus 2

You mean a catching away. Rapture is not in the Bible. The ECFs did not believe Pretrib.
 
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