The covid vaccine is not the mark of the beast.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
All this does is raise the possibility of some errors.

I concede that I was being less than charitable in characterizing what you posted as a "falsehood", and for that I apologize - I inferred (with no real evidence from your post) that you were saying that anytime someone with covid died in a car accident, it was recorded as a Covid death. Here is what you posted:

"Then we have people dying from being hit by cars who are recorded as "covid deaths".

Thats okay, I most certainly forgive you.

expos4ever said:
Ezike said that the state is being careful to make sure to weed out deaths where the patient had COVID-19, but died in a manner completely detached from the virus, such as gunshot wounds or motor vehicle crashes.

Maybe the money incentive for COVID related deaths (with very few living witnesses) can be tempting? Don't know, I cant say.

I'm more than sure they will be extra careful from here on out after being found out. That one was way too obvious to push through without someone looking up and noticing.

I really have to end the back and forths though, so this really needs to be my last answer here.

You are good at provoking a response, I will give you that.

The Liturgist · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
Yes, 2 % is a small percentage. Let's say that without interventions of any kind, 50% of the US population would ultimately contract Covid-19 (a conservative estimate, I believe). Now suppose only 1% die.

That is 1.65 million human beings dead. Not to mention those who survive but experience long term complications, the scope and nature of which are still unclear.

It appears you wish to be willing to sacrifice 1.65 million people to protect the health of the economy.

Is this what you are saying? If not, exactly what are you saying?

So here’s the problem with your argument: if the economy suffers another lockdown like what happened last spring, it could collapse, and if it collapses, the resulting starvation and lack of even basic medical care could easily kill hundreds of millions, maybe even billions.

Protecting the functioning of the economy should be the absolute top priority of every government, because without a viable economy there is no way of paying for those things needed to treat Covid.

To use a parable, think of the world as a jetliner flying at 30,000 feet. The captain is the economy and the co-pilot is the world’s energy, communication food production and transportation infrastructure. If we let them die, the plane crashes and we all die. The economy and the world’s vital infrastructure are more important than anything else, because if they fail, most people alive would die. And if they are severely damaged, the death toll would be massive.

The first course I ever took in college, and the course I still believe is the most important one I ever took, was Macro Economics. I think everyone should study macroeconomics. As my professor, Dr. Basil Ibegbulam, liked to say, “Ecomomics is everything.”

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 13, 2021

Isilwen said:
We are told ahead of time what the patient died of as in facilities they have a pretty good knowledge of why a person died usually. They have a cause of death before We get there most times, if not, yes, we are informed if the patient had Covid or not as that is exposure to us. There are a few that we never find out, but that is good because that means it wasn't Covid.

We have a contract with several funeral homes to do the body removals for them.

We do alot of transports in our thirteen hour shifts.

Okay, but let me ask you this, are you told whether a person died WITH Covid or FROM Covid since we have testimony showing that people are recorded as dyingg from Covid (just from testng positive with it but died from another illness. For example, those who have so many days to live and who might have been diagnosed with cancer like Fred Creasy

Here

Dying with COVID and dying from COVID are same thing in Oregon | kgw.com

PORTLAND, Ore. — Fred Creasy was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer at the end of June. Doctors gave the 81-year-old just 30 days to live. He died at the end of July while in hospice care at Avamere Rehabilitation Facility in Newport.

“They told my daughter you better come down here because it's going to be today. And within five hours he was gone,” said daughter Rhonda McCrary.

McCrary said her father tested positive for COVID-19 around the same time of his cancer diagnosis.

“He had no symptoms. He wasn't even quarantined,” said McCrary.

McCrary said her dad died from advanced cancer and Avamere considered Creasy recovered from the coronavirus. A few days after his death, Lincoln County Public Health reported Creasy as the county’s ninth COVID-19 death.

“I mean, that’s not what he died from. He died from colon cancer, not COVID and places are listing loved ones as COVID deaths. And they're labeling that and it's just not true,” said McCrary.

If you had to transport his body would you know this?

Afterall it could be listed as COVID death (and not be so) and that could also make it more then what is the actual cause of death.

expos4ever · Apr 13, 2021

The Liturgist said:
So here’s the problem with your argument: if the economy suffers another lockdown like what happened last spring, it could collapse, and if it collapses, the resulting starvation and lack of even basic medical care could easily kill hundreds of millions, maybe even billions.

This seems rather over-the-top. To be fair, I cannot "prove" that the scenario that you paint is as implausible as it seems on the surface. Surely you would agree that it is not clear exactly what the long-term implications of another lockdown would be. And here in Canada, things have been locked down super-tight due to an explosive recent rise. I see no reason to imagine that what happened before will not happen again - once things are under control, the lockdown will be lifted.

The Liturgist · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
Here in Canada, our problems with the pandemic had been overshadowed by the much worse situation in the USA. You had higher rates, and I believe even a higher death rate. You had Trump, and his followers, acting irresponsibly. And I believe you had a higher rate of rank stupidity in terms of vaccine conspiracy thinking and "all-that-matters-is-my-rights" thinking.

And yet, for the first time, the situation in Canada is right now worse than in the US. Why? I suspect it is due to your much better vaccine roll-out - you guys have vaccinated a much larger fraction of your population than we have (for reasons I won't get into). Of course, another factor may be that a higher fraction of your population has been sick and so are now immune through "natural" means.

In any event, my point is this: despite the trifecta of incorrect thinking, falsehoods, and focus on "my rights" - all three on display in this thread - it appears, for now at least, that you are doing relatively well.

Thank God that while so many of you were doing your best to commit collective suicide, American ingenuity and technology were silently at work, developing effective vaccines (here, I simply assume that American science / technology was substantially responsible for the mRNA technology behind Pfizer and Moderna).

My hat (and it is most certainly not a red ball cap) is off to all those American scientists - as well as all the health care professionals who suffered while so many Americans were in denial.

With all due respect, you were not in the US during the pandemic, you don’t know what life has been like in both the areas with high infection rates and the areas with very low infection rates, you are ignoring the fact that several policies enacted by or advocated by President Trump including the CDC Eviction Moratorium, Operation Warp Speed to fast-track approval of the vaccines by the FDA, which is notorious throughout the world for taking an excessive amount of time to approve even drugs that are vitally needed, the use of the Defense Production Act to mass produce ventilators, and the economic stimulus payments, helped the situation immediately, and these policies have been continued under Biden, who also saw to it that the $1,400 of the $2,000 stimulus check Trump wanted passed, but Congress rejected, was passed after he took office.

I did not vote for nor do I support either Trump or Biden, because I believe that as a clergyman I should avoid party politics, and I pray for the President of the United States and all civil authorities during all of the services of my church.

I do believe however that I should ensure that people benefit from accurate and impartial information concerning the Presidents when I am in a position to provide it.

Isilwen · Apr 13, 2021

2BeholdHisGlory said:
Okay, but let me ask you this, are you told whether a person died WITH Covid or FROM Covid since we have testimony showing that people are recorded as dyingg from Covid (just from testng positive with it but died from another illness. For example, those who have so many days to live and who might have been diagnosed with cancer like Fred Creasy

Here

Dying with COVID and dying from COVID are same thing in Oregon | kgw.com

PORTLAND, Ore. — Fred Creasy was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer at the end of June. Doctors gave the 81-year-old just 30 days to live. He died at the end of July while in hospice care at Avamere Rehabilitation Facility in Newport.

“They told my daughter you better come down here because it's going to be today. And within five hours he was gone,” said daughter Rhonda McCrary.

McCrary said her father tested positive for COVID-19 around the same time of his cancer diagnosis.

“He had no symptoms. He wasn't even quarantined,” said McCrary.

McCrary said her dad died from advanced cancer and Avamere considered Creasy recovered from the coronavirus. A few days after his death, Lincoln County Public Health reported Creasy as the county’s ninth COVID-19 death.

“I mean, that’s not what he died from. He died from colon cancer, not COVID and places are listing loved ones as COVID deaths. And they're labeling that and it's just not true,” said McCrary.

If you had to transport his body would you know this?

Afterall it could be listed as COVID death (and not be so) and that could also make it more then what is the actual cause of death.

That would be from.

I'm not going to get into the whole comorbidity thing in this thread.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 13, 2021

Isilwen said:
That would be from.

I'm not going to get into the whole comorbidity thing in this thread.

But thats just it, how would you know? If people listed as dying WITH covid are admittedly recorded as dying FROM it, and thats not in reference to the car accident deaths, or motorcycle deaths and anything similar to those but moreso those like Fred.

It would actually make sense that it was more, but it would also be something you could justifibly need to know about (regardless of how they might have died) WITH or FROM seeing you would still be in pocession of a covid positive body (to transport). In otherwords there could be more cases which test positive for covid (who never develop or die from it) but at the same time you (being transporter) would still need to know, if thats how it works (for the transporters protection). Thats what I was getting at.

I will let you guys continue, and will try not to jump back in and be done with this (Until another thread I cannot resist opens up on it).

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
How is voter ID a security measure?

Even if it is, surely you must realize that I am going to reply with the obvious: the very reason for the vaccination passport is to prevent suffering and death.

How is that not important?

Besides, I suspect you have zero evidence to support your assertion that the vaccine was (a) inappropriately rushed; (b) poses a danger in any reasonable sense.

The evidence is finally being acknowledged: Johnson & Johnson Vaccinations Paused After Rare Clotting Cases Emerge

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
Whataboutism - not relevant to what we are discussing.

It's perfectly relevant to the question you asked, which was:

expos4ever said:
You also appear to assume that "services" are a right. I doubt many experts on such matter would agree. Do you really think people have a "right" to travel by air, or eat at a restaurant, or go to basketball game?

Is forcing a baker to bake and decorate a cake for a homosexual "wedding" a service people believe is a right? Those who sue over it seem to think so.

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
This is not intimidation! You cannot redefine intimidation to mean "to be prevented from doing something that you want to do, when you do not comply with reasonable pre-requisites".

Is it "intimidation" if I can't get into Yale because my grades are too low? Of course not.

You will no doubt respond that food, unlike admission to Yale is a necessity. Indeed food is a necessity. But that does not mean it is "intimidation" to prevent you from endangering other people needlessly to get access to it.

Your logic is very authoritarian.

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

expos4ever said:
Do you understand what an anecdote is?

Here is one: Man smokes 2 packs a day for 70 years and lives to 90.

Does this mean smoking is not hazardous because this one man seemed to not be harmed?

Come on, we can, and should do better than this - presenting cherry-picked anecdotes is something we learn in high school is not a valid way to present an argument.

You can get the shots if you wish to take the gamble. Or not. Your body, your choice. Just don't try to make my choices for me.

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

pescador said:
Staying alive via modern medical research is not being "dumbed down", it is the best means found so far to protect your God-given life. 562,000+ Americans have died so far from COVID-19; I don't plan to be one of them.

The vaccines being used are extensively tested and found to be extremely effective against the virus. IMHO it is dumb to risk the life that God gave you and that Satan is trying to take away.

Is that why Johnson and Johnson keeps getting their "vaccine" paused while deaths and injuries get investigated.

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

pescador said:
I am not sure what planet you're on, since it's not the one I live on: Earth.

562,000+ Americans have died so far from COVID-19. There are no "empty hospitals videos showing empty waiting rooms, parking lots, and nurses and doctors demonstrating their twerking abilities for us", there are people dying en masse from the worst health crisis in a century in overloaded hospitals with staff working themselves to exhaustion. The funeral parlors are stretched beyond capacity, with refrigerated trucks handling the overflow.

All you have to do is look:

Daniel Marsh · Apr 13, 2021

Neostarwcc said:
I'm getting a little sick of hearing about this but yeah, the covid vaccine is not the mark of the beast. For one, the mark of the beast is supposed to be a MANDATORY mark that you receive on your right HAND or FOREHEAD. My wife and I both got our COVID vaccinations this morning and we were both injected in the ARM. Not to mention, participation in getting our vaccines was COMPLETELY voluntary. If you refuse to take the mark of the beast, the government will KILL you. Plus the covid vaccine is in the ARM not the hand or forehead.

Another thing I noticed. Before the nurse injected both of us she asked which arms we wanted to get injected into. So we could even chose what side of our body we could be injected into. Umm... last I checked the mark of the beast is not voluntary. They do not say "do you want it on your left hand or your right?" They just stick the mark in.

And the biggest clincher for me? God promised to protect his people from the coming tribulation. So even if the covid vaccine IS the mark of the beast... God willingly allowed me, one of his children to get injected.

Last I checked God never and could never go back on his promises. But everybody just acts like God doesn't even exist.

Don't be stupid. Do your part in eliminating this epidemic, get vaccinated if you can. And even when you're vaccinated still wear a mask. The vaccinations don't turn you into superman.. When we are smart during this epidemic we can lower the global death toll. But if we're not even going to read scripture and just automatically assume the two solutions to this global epidemic is evil and cursed and from Satan.... we're going to see another black death.... literally.

Who came up with the silly idea that the vaccine is the mark of the beast?

Taodeching · Apr 13, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
Who came up with the silly idea that the vaccine is the mark of the beast?

Somebody in the Eschatology section I believe. It is unfortunate that us Christians are gullible to many things, even me sometimes

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 13, 2021

Aldebaran said:
All you have to do is look:

On post #158 I just spent quite awhile searching and editing in numerous videos I had to search for over that "that other" platform that is censored on CF but it provides a platform and numerous videos from just about everywhere some far better then others but I was not making anything up. Glad you were able to post one.

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

2BeholdHisGlory said:
On post #158 I just spent quite awhile searching and editing in numerous videos I had to search for over that "that other" platform that is censored on CF but it provides a platform and numerous videos from just about everywhere some far better then others but I was not making anything up. Glad you were able to post one.

I was going to ask what that other platform was by way of private message, but can't access your profile. Could you give me a hint?

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 13, 2021

Aldebaran said:
I was going to ask what that other platform was by way of private message, but can't access your profile. Could you give me a hint?

I posted them in post # 158 (which I justed edited) from this platform

It wont allow me to post any video from there (I think because of the word in the platforms name).

I hope that helps, I will put you on follow if you still need to contact me for anything more, I think then you would be able to.

Aldebaran · Apr 13, 2021

2BeholdHisGlory said:
I posted them in post # 158 (which I justed edited) from this platform

It wont allow me to post any video from there (I think because of the word in the platforms name).

I hope that helps, I will put you on follow if you still need to contact me for anything more, I think then you would be able to.

Thanks! I never heard of that before. I'll have to check it out.
I just started following you now too. It let's me get to your profile, but I still don't see how to PM you. I guess that's ok though at this point.

2BeholdHisGlory · Apr 13, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Thanks! I never heard of that before. I'll have to check it out.
I just started following you now too. It let's me get to your profile, but I still don't see how to PM you. I guess that's ok though at this point.

Its not much to get excited about over there, I prefer Youtube, but also try to not use it when I dont have to. Its actually fustrating to find anything there, tedious. Then after all the trouble the forum doesnt allow you to post any videos from there.

I PMed you, you sound like me, dont know what I am doing behind the scenes here lol

The covid vaccine is not the mark of the beast.

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