The Beast of Rev.12 & 3 World Ages

Minister Monardo said:

Opposing viewpoints pertaining to imagery of Revelation is particularly risky.
Revelation 22:
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone
adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take
away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written
in this book.

Here are the Lord's instructions.
Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and
keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

This reminds me of the response of Mary, mother of Jesus, to the revelations she was given.
Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart.

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When God's Word declares "seven crowns" in one Scripture, and "ten crowns" in another, I don't see that as being anything other than what it says as written. I'm not interested in many theories about The Word of God. I'm interested in God's Truth imparted by His Word as written.

Maria Billingsley said:

Because there happens to be four views of Revelation and this one you are publishing is one of the four.
Just in case you are interested the other three are, Historicist, Preterist, and Spiritual. The fourth is Futurist.
Be blessed.

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But I'm not interested in man's seminary theories, but in what God's written Word declares. I mean, so what if one can speak 4 different languages of the world, only one is necessary for God's Message in His Word to get across to the believer. And even in many other languages, His Message should be the same meaning. If it's not, then it is confusion, and God is not the author of confusion as Paul said.

tall73 said:

So far, I agree that the dragon is identified as Satan. I also agree that Jesus refers to Satan being cast to the earth at a previous time.

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The Revelation 12:7-17 Scripture though, is about Satan being cast down to the earth at the end... of this present world, not in the past.

It's the Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture that is pointing to his original rebellion and fall from heaven. Yet we know he still has access to the heavenly after his original fall, as his abode is still there in the heavenly dimension today, as shown by this...

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

There's only 2 different dimensions of existence described in God's Word, this earthly one we live in, and the heavenly one where God and the angels dwell, including where the abode of the wicked called hell is, behind a veil we cannot see.

That phrase above in red is specific to Satan and his angels being cast out of the heavenly dimension altogether, literally. There's only one other dimension where they can go, and it's to our dimension of this earthly. This is what Lord Jesus was pointing to in John 12, etc., that the prince of this world cometh, and that he is 'cast out'. It's not about Satan being cast out of 'our' world, but out of the heavenly to this earth, literally, like that Rev.12:8 verse reveals. That is not Biblical imagery, it is a warning to the brethren in Christ, as revealed in the next verses there...

Rev 12:10-12
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

The power of Christ did not come back at the time of Satan's original rebellion, and the Rev.12:11 verse about the saints giving a Testimony and overcoming by the Blood of The Lamb definitely does not fit the time back at Satan's original rebellion and casting out. This has to be about Satan's casting out at the END of this world. It's still in our near future. Even that "short time" is pointing to the shortened time of the end involving the "great tribulation" Lord Jesus warned of in His Olivet discourse.

tall73 said:

So we have the dragon identified as Satan. Then we have two additional beasts.

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The "dragon" is again mentioned in Rev.13 though, which ties Satan to the "another beast" entity of Rev.13:11 forward...

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

That links to the Daniel "little horn" example of a false one. More info on that idea is given in Rev.17.

The 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 is in reality a 'kingdom'. The "another beast" mentioned later is that "dragon" (Satan).

tall73 said:

Yes, the "ancient serpent" of Revelation 12 is a reference to the garden.

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In reality though, by the time of Adam and Eve in God's Garden of Eden, Satan had already rebelled and was in his role as Adversary, tempting Eve. So by previous world, my meaning is literally, in Peter's "the world that then was" which perished by a flood. Not the time of Noah, but a time prior to Adam and Eve, that first world being when Satan originally followed God and was perfect in his ways (per the parables in Ezekiel 28 about him using the prince and king of Tyrus).

I realize that many brethren do not believe God's Word points to a previous world when Satan was perfect in his ways, but I do. Ezekiel 31 is even another parable about Satan having been originally exalted before he rebelled.

tall73 said:

You have three entities mentioned. The Dragon, the beast from the sea and the beast from the earth.

This appears to be parallel to:

Rev 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

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A problem many miss about that is this. No one born of woman is judged and sentenced to perish in the "lake of fire" until after Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. Yet Revelation 19:20 reveals the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire at Christ's return. So how do we account for that problem, since most try to make the 'beast' and 'false prophet' to mean certain flesh born men?

tall73 said:

Are you typing slow?

Go back and read the thread. You will find I commented on a lot. And I agreed with you quite a bit.

Post 10, post 11, post 15, post 16, and post 17.

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You said this to me...

"There is a devotional section if you just want to post unchallenged interpretations."

"I am saying it to you because you put it in an area for discussion, but do not want any discussion that does not agree with you."


How else am I to understand that? You only concentrated on moving to 'other' interpretations without even bother to offer discussion of the 'relevant' Scripture I posted! Do you take me as a fool to be toyed with, just because some here don't agree with my postings? You'll notice that real discussion with me began when you started addressing the Scriptures and subject of the OP.

Hammster said:

I think you are taking it too literally. Nero actually fits the description of the beast. And the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is what’s in view.

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I disagree. Nero never did this...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

Nor was Nero the "dragon" of Revelation 13:4-8 which says the whole world will worship. Sorry, but this has not happened yet.

Hammster said:

He was, actually. You need to go through scripture and see how “whole world” is used. John certainly was familiar.

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I disagree, and I have gone through all of God's Word, particularly Scripture about the end of this world leading up to Christ's future return.

I was raised in a Preterist following Church, so I know what that system of men's leaven is about, likewise with Historicism and Futurism. I prefer God's Word and let the chips fall where they may.