The origin of sin is that Adam was commanded by God not to do something, and he did it. He disobeyed his Creator and sin came into the world.
Exactly, Adam. A real man who lived and disobeyed God. Those who believe evolution believe Adam is nothing more than a parable character.
This is a completely separate issue from the question, "were trees created instantly and fully grown, or did God plant saplings and they grew over many years?"
Not at all separate when you have people calling Adam a parable. A story meant to teach us something but not a real man. This is the issue.
Fully grown of course, but this is not the issue, its a red herring to take peoples focus off what is important and
that is we are separated from God because of Adam's sin and we die because of Adam's sin.
God says death is an enemy that came in after sin.
Evolution believes not only millions of years but millions of years of death as simply the normal state of things.
Obviously there was a first.
As I said, the Hebrew word for man is Adam - it was not a name then. However he arrived in the world and however he was created, there was a first man. And it was to him that God gave the command not to eat - a command which he chose to disobey.
Adam's name means humanity, and all humanity came from them both. But Adam himself was a real man. A man who fell, loved, had children and died.
Like I said, of course he was; I've no problem with that.
The first man was a man - that goes without saying.
But this is not what evolution believes. They don't believe there was a perfect world with no death, that man fell from a place of near perfection into sin.
To them man is nothing more than an animal who changed gradually over time and millions of years of death.
I never said that Adam was simply a story - nor am I arguing FOR evolution.
I don't know what you believe now, too many days has past for me to remember. I must have noticed you giving some kind of nod to evolution though for me to say what I said.
I am deeply concerned about Christians who go along with evolution due to not understanding the origin of sin and death. If people doubt the first book, that can spread to doubt to further books. This is the only reason I speak up for creation.
All that I'm saying is that;
- the Bible is not a scientific textbook and its purpose is not to explain HOW the world was created. Whereas God gives gifts to scientists so that they can discover, investigate and tell us more about God's creation.
If only that were completely true. Science only has the present. It is man striving to understand what he sees and tests. They can look at things in the present, they can test things in the present. But then to take the present and say this will take us back to measure the past and that we know better than God's word is not only incorrect since there is no way of knowing how the world was at creation, its also arrogance. The created world is not the current world, the world we live on now is the groaning world. Not to mention acceleration of things. God stretched out the stars and they are still expanding ever outwards. The Bible on the other hand doesn't need science, the Bible is truth and history. If God says he made everything in 6 days then he did. If man says we measure this fossil to be 6 million years old, it isn't God who is wrong, it's man.
- if someone does not believe that the world was made in 6, literal, 24 hour days and everything was created instantly, it does not mean they cannot be a Christian, that they are being deceived by devils, that they are against God and on the side of science, or any of the other things that I have read in various forums over the years.
I didn't say they are not a Christian. Only God knows that. You can find many posts of mine where I have said that. So lets get that point out the way first.
What does deeply troubles me is that if a person who claims Christ is not believing God's word in one area it can lead to doubt in other areas. I've seen it happen. Which is why the first thing Satan said to Eve was "Did God really say" He cast doubt on God's word. This was and is Satan's greatest weapon against us. And those who do not know Christ have even more reason to not believe in God if they believe the world can create itself.
And even if they never doubt Jesus, they are missing out on the full and wonderful picture of what God has planned. Eden was given to us as a taste of the new heavens and new world that God plans. The fact it will be made back to that is again part of the plan. Its not going to be made back into a primordial soup. To not see all of God's plan spread out is like looking through a tube at the Sistine chapel. Sure they can believe in ape men and still be saved, but what a shame. Some people will have their salvation but never grow and never fully understand.
I agree with John Stott when he said that it is for the scientists to tell us the HOW of creation; what the Bible tells us is the who and why. GOD created, GOD spoke, GOD saw that it was all good. This is God's world, he made it for a purpose - it is not something that randomly came about when some atoms happened to collide/divide/explode. This world is not a mistake or a result of chance - God is behind it all and is in charge.
They have zero idea about creation. That world isn't here to test. The world changed completely at the fall and again at the flood. They are testing the current world, the groaning world and it has thrown them off. This current world will tell them nothing about how God created. The same way a person without Christ can tell you nothing about Christ, because they have nothing to give.
The Bible teaches that there was no death before sin.
If sin brought in death then evolution is impossible.
If sin didn't bring in death then the Bible is wrong.
Only one stance can be correct.
God created man and man chose to disobey God, true; that is not in dispute.
God created man close to a perfect state with no death. This is no way gels with any kind of evolutionary view.
But that doesn't address, or affect, the question; how was the world created? The Bible does not answer this, it says "God spoke and it was so" - but those things could actually have taken thousands of years, in our time, to come into being.
That, for me, doesn't matter and doesn't affect the Gospel one bit. God created man, man rebelled and Jesus, as the second Adam, came to restore all things and reconcile us to the Father.
If God had wanted to take thousands of years he could have done so. But he told us that he took 6.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
The 7 days were to give us the week. That is the only reason God took even that long. It was for our benefit. He could have created it all instantly if he had so wished.
The main point is death and yes it does affect the gospel.
1)If death is simply a normal by product of life or 2) If death was a direct result of sin. That is a huge and important difference.
We know Adam and Eve were not alive for thousands of years before they fell. One because Adam died 930 years after he was created and two because Eve didn't get pregnant until after the fall. Thousands of years give you nothing.
Thousands has nothing to do with evolution. That requires
millions of years, with death occurring every single day of those millions of years simply as the normal way of being. Nor does it fit with God's word. Thousands of years doesn't give you anything.
