Creationism/Evolution

Thomas White

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2020
1,196
708
37
Stockbridge
✟79,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
If evolutionary theory says that there was no historical Adam, would you rewrite the Scriptures? Is life created by abiogenesis? If you answer yes to these questions are you not recognizing the supremacy of evolution over God, hence worship?

No. After all, the Bible clearly points to abiogenesis. God formed man from the dust of the ground. That is abiogenesis.
 
Upvote 0

Chi.C

Active Member
Feb 28, 2021
154
47
Quebec
✟24,747.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No. After all, the Bible clearly points to abiogenesis. God formed man from the dust of the ground. That is abiogenesis.
Nice curve ball.
So abiogenesis creates the most advanced life form first by random natural processes. How does that fit into the evolutionary theory? Did Adam devolve to the proto-cell and bio soup to start evolution again to again be Adam? Why is there no fossil record like an upside tree?

Are you an evolutionist or just an anti creationist? Your evolutionism seems to based on a witty denigration of the Scriptures or your anti-creationism is a witty denigration of the Scriptures.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: chad kincham
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Christianity is a belief that Jesus was Christ.

Christianity is not taking every verse in the Bible as scientific or the complete set of cultural ideas of Paul.

Does evolution make it impossible that Jesus is Christ? No.
Does taking first chapters of Genesis as a mythological drama make it impossible that Jesus is Christ? No.

Jesus taught the creation account and Adam and Eve as literal truth, and every word of the law and the prophets, as the accurate word of God.

BTW He also not only taught Jonah in the fish as literal, He made it a sign of His own death, burial and resurrection and said that just as Jonah was in the fish for three days, He would be in the heart of the earth for three days,
 
  • Agree
Reactions: coffee4u
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Exactly it is quite disingenuous to take a book that is quite ancient and ascribe modern notions to said book plus acting like what the English translation is actually what the book really says in the original language

Try reading the Bible.

It’s not intend3x as a science textbook, but there are many medical and science facts in the Bible, put there long before science, medicine, and astronomy learned it.
 
Upvote 0

Taodeching

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2020
1,540
1,110
51
Southwest
✟60,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Try reading the Bible.

It’s not intend3x as a science textbook, but there are many medical and science facts in the Bible, put there long before science, medicine, and astronomy learned it.

Okaayyy
 
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sure.

Think about your own body. Lets start with your teeth. What is it's most known purpose? To eat. sure it's needed for your dialect, but in the end it's most known function is to break down food. In fact, your teeth are all different because they serve a different purpose for eating, your fangs tear flesh and your molars break it down, your saliva also plays a role.

Lets go to the animals. There are animals that have natural features that help them to eat, hunt, defend themselves, etc...

Now, in the beginning. Why would we need all of that, when prior to Adam sinning, there was no death? Why need teeth, goosebumps, sweat glands, body hair when we can't die?

Whatever was in Genesis is definitely not the same world. You can make the case that God created things instantly, but Adam and Eve and everything else had to physically change once they fell because all life physically submits to nature. Whether you want to believe Evolution happened after the forming of dust, or after the garden is up to you. Point, is not only is it compatible but christians can not just reject for any reason other than the bad theology and bible fanaticism

The Bible explains that carnivores came about because Adams fall into sin cursed the world, and that when the world is restored to Edenic conditions and the lion will be a herbivore once again, along with all carnivores.
 
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The verse you posted does not say that the whole creation changed when the sin (of Adam) came into the world.
The verse also does not specify what "the whole creation" means - the whole humanity? All living things? The whole physical universe? We can only guess. But what is more probable - our worldview or ancient people's worldview?


Again it depends on how we work with the Bible. Taking every word as literal or looking for the deeper meaning behind the words?


Evolution does not (commonly) do huge jumps. Its not that one creature was 100% animal and its child was 100% human.
Also, the language evolves through time, its not something that is complete from day 1.
Eve (if she was literal and not just symbolic) came from the same or similar group of homo sapiens as Adam did.

Not at all.

When God made Adam from dirt, he was the first and only man on earth, he had no mother or father or any relatives who were part of evolving into a human from a common ancestor - and there was no woman anywhere on earth, until God cloned her from Adams rib cells.

We know this because when He made Eve He said,, it’s not good for the man, singular, to be ALONE.

BTW science has traced all of mankind’s ancestry to one man, they call chromosomal Adam, and one woman they call mtDNA Eve (mitochondrial DNA Eve).
 
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
7,438
2,794
Hartford, Connecticut
✟295,488.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Evolution is supposed to be about science, not religion.

But anyone who claims to believe the Bible cannot accept ToE - they are diametrically opposed to each other.

Not to mention that evolutionary theory is horrible science, and completely false in its naturalistic and materialistic interpretation of the data, from abiogenesis to transitional fossils and common ancestry.

I am a christian scientist. I accept the Bible and the theory of evolution. As do many other scientists.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don’t see how this post holds together. First,abiogenesis isn’t evolution. My belief in evolution isn’t squeezing out God. Rather, confining God to things we don’t understand is doing so. That’s the implication of denying evolution. The argument here seems to be if we have a scientific understanding of something, God can’t be responsible. That is fatal for Christianity.

Abiogenesis is called chemical evolution.
 
Upvote 0

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
9,165
3,655
N/A
✟149,047.00
Country
Czech Republic
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When God made Adam from dirt,
Not from dirt, but from dust. Dust represents mortality.

he was the first and only man on earth, he had no mother or father or any relatives who were part of evolving into a human from a common ancestor
If you take the mythological drama written by ancient people for ancient people in mythological times as being scientific (written in the style of the 19th+ century), which is nonsense.

- and there was no woman anywhere on earth, until God cloned her from Adams rib cells.
Cloning from Adam ribs cells... pure scientific fantasy. God took half of a man and created a woman, so that man does not feel whole until he unites with a woman. Thats the point of the story.

We know this because when He made Eve He said,, it’s not good for the man, singular, to be ALONE.
In the paradise, if you want to be literal. But lonelines of a man without a woman is the point, yes.

BTW science has traced all of mankind’s ancestry to one man, they call chromosomal Adam, and one woman they call mtDNA Eve (mitochondrial DNA Eve).
Adam and Eve could have existed as individuals, thats nothing against science or history. But do not be naively suprised if they were just archetypes in a symbolic ancient story.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Job 33:6
Upvote 0

Cis.jd

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2015
3,613
1,484
New York, NY
✟140,465.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
The Bible explains that carnivores came about because Adams fall into sin cursed the world, and that when the world is restored to Edenic conditions and the lion will be a herbivore once again, along with all carnivores.

Exactly, however you missed the point and context of my post; and you have indirectly hinted evolution happening after the fall. As you said, they became carnivores so they had to develop natural features (both external and internal) and talents that carnivores have.

Now, there is one additional problem you have raised in your post: Why would there be herbivores back then if there was no death.. what is the point of eating?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Taodeching
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,852
7,970
NW England
✟1,050,196.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The Bible and evolution are diametrically opposed. One cannot be a bible believing Christian and accept ToE, they are completely contradictory.

So you say, yet I know of people who believe in evolution who are also born again Christians.

And Eve was not in existence when God made Adam. When God created Eve, He said it’s not good for Adam to be alone.

Yes; where did I say otherwise?

And Jesus absolutely taught Adam and Eve and the creation account in a Genesis as literal, and all of Moses writings as the accurate word of God - they are not a metaphor, analogy or symbolism.

Where did I say that Adam and Eve didn't exist?
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,852
7,970
NW England
✟1,050,196.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Evolution explains no such thing. It’s not even real science.

I'm not going to argue science and evolution with you because I don't understand them.

All I know is that the Bible is not a science textbook. It is not the purpose of the Bible to explain HOW the world was created, only that it was; by God.
I don't see that it is necessary to believe that God created trees instantly - that they just materialised fully grown - to believe that God created trees. So if a scientist tells me that there is evidence that a tree is 20,000 years old, I'm not going to start saying that this evidence has been falsified by Satan or planted by God as some kind of test to see if we will believe it, or him.

I don't know how God created the world - obviously he spoke and it happened, but I don't know anything beyond that. And saying that is not going to convince an inquisitive child or scientific unbeliever.

Accepting evolution, or not, in no way changes the Gospel - we are still all sinners, Jesus died for our sins to reconcile us to God and we can have eternal life through him. We are saved through Jesus alone; no one, and nothing, else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Job 33:6
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Site Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,852
7,970
NW England
✟1,050,196.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How long do you suppose it took to take the dust of the earth, form a man and breath life into it?

The bible doesnt say an infinite number of things, but that doesn't mean they happened.

That's my point. The Bible doesn't say HOW we were created; the process by which God did it.
That is not its purpose. It is not a scientific textbook.

If I wrote the statement, "I decided to make my family's Christmas presents, and I did"; all that tells you is that my family received Christmas presents that were hand made by me. It doesn't tell you what each present was, whether I made it from wood, wool, paper, cotton etc, or how long it took me to do it. Each one could have taken 2 hours, or 2 months.

The Bible says that God created the universe. It doesn't tell us how long it took - yes, I know it says a day, but God is outside time and a day to him may be hundreds of years to us. And it doesn't tell us how each process happened - how he decided to create fur or feathers, and which to give to which animal.
All the Bible says, which I believe 100%, is that God created. That's what the author of Genesis wants us to know - God made the universe, by hand, for us.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Job 33:6
Upvote 0

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Not from dirt, but from dust. Dust represents mortality.


If you take the mythological drama written by ancient people for ancient people in mythological times as being scientific (written in the style of the 19th+ century), which is nonsense.


Cloning from Adam ribs cells... pure scientific fantasy. God took half of a man and created a woman, so that man does not feel whole until he unites with a woman. Thats the point of the story.


In the paradise, if you want to be literal. But lonelines of a man without a woman is the point, yes.


Adam and Eve could have existed as individuals, thats nothing against science or history. But do not be naively suprised if they were just archetypes in a symbolic ancient story.

You couldn’t be more wrong,, if you tried.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: trophy33
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

chad kincham

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2009
2,773
1,005
✟62,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Exactly, however you missed the point and context of my post; and you have indirectly hinted evolution happening after the fall. As you said, they became carnivores so they had to develop natural features (both external and internal) and talents that carnivores have.

Now, there is one additional problem you have raised in your post: Why would there be herbivores back then if there was no death.. what is the point of eating?

There was no death from being eaten or old age, and because they ate the food God provided.

BTW God made the changes in the animals, which is completely different than the claims of phyletic gradualism by Darwinian evolution.

And it didn’t take millions of years, either.
 
Upvote 0