WWJD Did Jesus Pray to Mary?

disciple Clint

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I have studied theology, and there’s nothing in theology that states that His mother had to be sinless. In fact, Genesis 3:15 alone would make your understanding faulty.
God can not tolerate sin, that is fundamental Theology therefore God could not be born of a sinner, that should be so obvious that it defies any dispute.
 
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prodromos

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You entirely misunderstand what I said.
I'm seeking to find the objective interpretation as Jesus would tell us right now in english; I seek the truth about everything. I am well aware that me choosing what I want to cherrypick out of scripture is wrong, that is what this verse is saying. It's literally telling you to seek the objectively true interpretation.
Individuals don't have the authority to make that judgement, that authority belongs to the Church which is the "pillar and ground of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15)
What I don't do, is just randomly pick a denomination that exists as to choose what I believe, which seems to be where you and Clint are coming from.
That isn't where I'm coming from. What I did was follow through history the Church which Christ established. In case you eere wondering, it is not the Church based in Rome, although they were originally in the Church, they've long since gone their own way.
The prayer and seeking with the spirit will lead you to believe the plainly stated words of scripture, if you truly do want to know the truth.
Jesus plainly states that unless you eat His flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you, nor will you be raised on the last day. Do you accept what is plainly stated by Scripture?
 
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prodromos

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God can not tolerate sin, that is fundamental Theology therefore God could not be born of a sinner, that should be so obvious that it defies any dispute.
Sin has power over God!? So in your view God is not all powerful? Surely you teach heresy.
 
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disciple Clint

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The Bible is the only required book to learn about God, yes, it is the only one divinely inspired. I feel like I am just repeating myself because you seem to be ignoring what I'm saying.

And why would I be worried about what random pastors study before becoming pastors? I'm sure it's more than just the inspired Scriptures, which means that heresy works its way into a pastors repertoire.

I've said this several times before. Every denomination says different things. They all claim to have the truth. This is statistically impossible, and this all coming from the mouth of preachers. There is a better way to avoid this trouble, is to just and only study scripture itself.
the perfect way for someone to deceive themselves is to read the Bible using there own understanding and nothing more. How would someone know that they are straying into heresy if all they accept is their own understanding, there needs to be a standard to measure truth.
 
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disciple Clint

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Sin has power over God!? So in your view God is not all powerful? Surely you teach heresy.
You misunderstand what I said or perhaps I poorly worded what I was trying to communicate. No sin has no power over God, God is sovereign, God avoids sin because He is diametrically opposed to sin, nothing sinful can be associated with God. Certainly you agree that Jesus would not be mothered by a sinner.
 
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prodromos

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You misunderstand what I said or perhaps I poorly worded what I was trying to communicate. No sin has no power over God, God is sovereign, God avoids sin because He is diametrically opposed to sin, nothing sinful can be associated with God. Certainly you agree that Jesus would not be mothered by a sinner.
God is everywhere present. All of creation, sinful or not, exists in His presence. He withholds His glory for our sake so that we aren't simply incinerated by His divine energy.
 
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disciple Clint

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God is everywhere present. All of creation, sinful or not, exists in His presence. He withholds His glory for our sake so that we aren't simply incinerated by His divine energy.
"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear " (Isaiah 59:1-2)
 
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prodromos

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"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear " (Isaiah 59:1-2)
So you interpret this to mean God is not omnipresent? We don't seem to believe in the same God.

When Adam and Eve sinned, did that prevent God from seeking them out in the garden of Eden?
 
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Hammster

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God can not tolerate sin, that is fundamental Theology therefore God could not be born of a sinner, that should be so obvious that it defies any dispute.
Can you give the scripture that says God cannot tolerate sin?
 
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Jaxxi

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There is no argument that God can provide grace that overcomes sin. that has nothing to do with Mary being full of grace. BUT even if the question of grace is disregarded, it is not disreputable that God is not going to have a sinner as His mother.
Being full of grace is not the same thing as being without sin. If she were without sin, it would actually say that because it says it about Jesus. Yes God found favor in Mary, but she was human. She was not a Goddess. She did not walk on water. She could not change water in to wine, so she told Jesus to. I feel you are giving her attributes that she did not have and I remember being told by a priest that if people really loved Mary they would stop praying to her because she has no power to bless them, or grant them anything and it grieves her in her heart in heaven that people put so much faith in her when she wasn't given the authority. While the mother of God, she was still a woman and had her place below that of any man in her day, or any other day for that matter. She did not exalt herself or do anything to make anyone make her an idol and she has been made and idol, with statues and rosaries. I know of many who when things went wrong they grabbed their rosary and started praying to Mary and that breaks the First Commandment. She is not the first person to go to. I feel bad for her actually because she was a good woman who lived a hard life and she did not ask for the pressures of the world that she can do nothing about. Think about it. Poor Mary, God bless her.
 
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disciple Clint

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So you interpret this to mean God is not omnipresent? We don't seem to believe in the same God.

When Adam and Eve sinned, did that prevent God from seeking them out in the garden of Eden?
NO I do not have any question or doubt about the characteristics of God or the character of God, God does not condone or associate with sin.
 
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disciple Clint

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Being full of grace is not the same thing as being without sin. If she were without sin, it would actually say that because it says it about Jesus. Yes God found favor in Mary, but she was human. She was not a Goddess. She did not walk on water. She could not change water in to wine, so she told Jesus to. I feel you are giving her attributes that she did not have and I remember being told by a priest that if people really loved Mary they would stop praying to her because she has no power to bless them, or grant them anything and it grieves her in her heart in heaven that people put so much faith in her when she wasn't given the authority. While the mother of God, she was still a woman and had her place below that of any man in her day, or any other day for that matter. She did not exalt herself or do anything to make anyone make her an idol and she has been made and idol, with statues and rosaries. I know of many who when things went wrong they grabbed their rosary and started praying to Mary and that breaks the First Commandment. She is not the first person to go to. I feel bad for her actually because she was a good woman who lived a hard life and she did not ask for the pressures of the world that she can do nothing about. Think about it. Poor Mary, God bless her.
All that and still the point that God would not be born of a mother who was a sinner. How much more simple and obvious can it be?
 
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prodromos

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remember being told by a priest that if people really loved Mary they would stop praying to her because she has no power to bless them, or grant them anything and it grieves her in her heart in heaven that people put so much faith in her when she wasn't given the authority.
Last time you said it was "people who can see in the spirit" who informed you of this and now you say it is a priest. Is this priest one of those aforementioned people? How many of these "seeing in spirit" people have told you this and what is it about them that makes them reliable sources?
 
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Anthony2019

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Sometime between the year of 4 and 6 BC, a Galilean Jewish woman, Mary, gave birth to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Mary has always been referred to as the Theotokos, literally meaning the God bearer, and for very good reason. She did not simply give birth to a human being, but through the incarnation, she gave birth to our Lord who is both fully God and fully man. She gave birth to the Word made flesh. Therefore it is correct to describe Mary as the Mother of God since, theologically (and technically) speaking, that is precisely who she is.
Mary is not God. She is not our Saviour. Yet she has an important role in our salvation.
Many Christians, especially protestants, try to cut the knot out of the difficulty by referring to Mary as simply the "earthly mother of Jesus" - as if her life had no real significance. She was certainly Jesus's "earthy mother", but scripture tells us some other important things about Mary.
Biblical scholars will be familiar with "types", things written in the Old Testament which foreshadow that in the New. Many texts in the NT have interesting and interwoven parallels with those in the OT. Word for word, the events surrounding the account of Elizabeth and Mary in the first chapter of Luke closely mirror those of David and the Ark of the Covenant.
For me, Mary is much more than simply the "earthly mother of Jesus". Especially chosen by God, she was the virgin who carried the Lord Jesus Christ, God incarnate, in her womb. Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. She is not to be worshipped, since our worship should be directed to God alone, but she is to be venerated and respected.
 
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Hammster

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She is not to be worshipped, since our worship should be directed to God alone, but she is to be venerated and respected.
What’s the difference?
 
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Astroqualia

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Individuals don't have the authority to make that judgement, that authority belongs to the Church which is the "pillar and ground of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15)

That isn't where I'm coming from. What I did was follow through history the Church which Christ established. In case you eere wondering, it is not the Church based in Rome, although they were originally in the Church, they've long since gone their own way.

Jesus plainly states that unless you eat His flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you, nor will you be raised on the last day. Do you accept what is plainly stated by Scripture?
The church is made up of individual Christians. So you didn't really make any point that I see, there. The RCC is not the "church" spoken about in scripture. Ekklesia is, it is the body of all believers. Which literally means that individuals reading the Bible [the church] have that authority. Who doesn't have that authority are nonbelievers.

So you believe cannibalism is the way to christ? I've met hyper catholics that have told me that. The Bible also mentions other aspects of salvation, proper understanding in context is necessary.
 
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Astroqualia

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the perfect way for someone to deceive themselves is to read the Bible using there own understanding and nothing more. How would someone know that they are straying into heresy if all they accept is their own understanding, there needs to be a standard to measure truth.
At this point I'm going to refer you to my previous posts, since I already addressed this, and I never said to individually interpret scripture the way you want. I said to individually seek the truthful objective interpretation. You never addressed how you are able to figure out that interpretation yourself, considering all the different preachers and denominations that exist that say different things and all claim to be true. Did you just cast your lot with the preacher you decided to believe? You must have.
 
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disciple Clint

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That says nothing about Him not being able to be born to a sinful woman. In fact, Genesis 3:15 says that He will.
Genesis 3:15 which is the protoevangelium says no such thing as anyone who has any understanding of theology clearly knows. God is speaking to satan and telling him that Jesus is going to crush his head. No need to accept my word for it, read it for yourself. The Proto-Evangelium
 
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