An Adventist view of the Sabbath Commandment - and why it is applicable to all mankind

BobRyan

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The Jews wanted to kill Jesus for working on the seventh day, but Jesus told them his father was working all along. John 5:8-15

As far as I know Seventh Day Adventists do not circumcise boys like the Jews and Muslims circumcise. Adventists ignore other commandments

That idea about circumcision was never commanded in OT or NT for gentiles and Acts 15 also agrees. How is this a surprise?

Also John 5 is long before the cross - so even by the most extreme policy of deleting commandments in the NT - it would not be a statement about the Sabbath deleted in John 5. In fact in John 5 Jesus does not say "the Father has only started work today" rather it has always been true - and the Sabbath was always in effect to that point in time. The Father's work did not cancel the 4th commandment at Sinai or to this very day.


for God desired mercy and not their sacrificial offerings. I attended SDA Sabbath School in the 1980’s. They could not celebrate eating lamb for Passover as many of them are vegan or vegetarian.

1. The Adventist denomination has not ever celebrated the feast days as a denominational norm or practice. But we allow the Romans 14 principle that it is up to each individual if they choose to do it.

2. The Adventist denomination does have a doctrine about not eating unclean meat - and lamb is not an unclean meat. Individual members could choose to celebrate Passover if they wish. We also do not have a doctrine saying it is sin to eat clean meat. The church does teach that a vegetarian diet is better for your health.
 
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BobRyan

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Let me ask why the Apostles did not mention keeping the Law as a requirement for gentile converts if you think they should?

Eph 6:1-2 Paul makes it very clear that gentiles are supposed to keep God's Commandments where the command to honor parents "is the first commandment in that unit of Law" with a promise.
 
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BobRyan

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I know why it is Church tradition to call the first day of the week the ‘Lords Day’. I am very familiar with that.

However, when John says in Revelation;

Revelation 1:10 (ESV) I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

He was not talking about Sunday. This is the only time that those words ‘the Lords day’ are used. The significance of it is huge.

As I said, it meant John understood what the Sabbath was. Not a ritual to be kept each week, doing certain things, not doing others.....John understood the Sabbath was the Lords day.

Matthew 12:8 (ESV)
For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.

Romans 14:6 (ESV)
The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Again, it is significant and shouldn’t be overlooked or thought to be changed. Revelation was written before any other church document stating that Sunday was the ‘Lords day’.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging the Sabbath as the Lords day - I believe people should see the significance of it.

As you point out -
Matthew 12:8 (ESV) "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

Is 58:13 "“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot
From doing as you wish on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,
 
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seeking.IAM

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Let me ask why the Apostles did not mention keeping the Law as a requirement for gentile converts if you think they should?

I never said I think gentile converts are obligated to keep the law. They are not. I dispute your statment, "If you keep even part of it you reject Christ and must do all of it, including a full return to Judaism."

I read that as you saying if a gentile decides to keep any part of the law - let's say they choose not to eat pork - he/she has (a) rejected Christ and (b) must keep all of the law including a return to Judaism. I don't think you can provide any scriptural authority for that, if that is what you meant.
 
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BobRyan

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You are incorrect when you call the Sabbath, the Lord's day. In the history of Christianity, the Lord's day is know as a day distinct from the Sabbath. St Augustine said it best. Today is the eighth day after Easter and is known as Divine Mercy Sunday. In the office of readings for today, we see the significance of the eighth day in God's plan for salvation. This is from a sermon by St Augustine:

This is the octave day of your new birth. Today is fulfilled in you the sign of faith that was prefigured in the Old Testament by the circumcision of the flesh on the eighth day after birth. When the Lord rose from the dead, he put off the mortality of the flesh; his risen body was still the same body, but it was no longer subject to death. By his resurrection he consecrated Sunday, or the Lord’s day. Though the third after his passion, this day is the eighth after the Sabbath, and thus also the first day of the week.
And so your own hope of resurrection, though not yet realised, is sure and certain, because you have received the sacrament or sign of this reality, and have been given the pledge of the Spirit. If, then, you have risen with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your hearts on heavenly things, not the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, your life, appears, then you too will appear with him in glory.

Your post indicates that there is no Bible text saying that the Lord's Day is week-day-1 or Sunday.

Sunday was consecrated by Jesus' Resurrection. On the Seventh Day, God rested, but on the Eighth day, He rose again and went to work. We were given the great commission, go into the world and make disciples of all nations baptizing them the the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Here again you make statements that are not a quote of any Bible text - no text says that weekday-1 is "consecrated by Jesus' Resurrection" .. one could say "Easter Sunday is consecrated by Jesus' Resurrection" but no text says that - no text says to have a yearly memorial , no text says to have a weekly or monthly memorial of Christ's resurrection. In fact it was a new moon since it was Passover and that could conceivably make every new moon a possible celebration of the death, burial and resurrection. Some people choose to do so - but that is not the same as having a Bible text calling for it.

Traditions of all sorts come up over time - but we should not confuse that with having an actual statement in God's word that is whatever the tradition happens to say.

In Mark 7:6-12 the Jews came up with a lot of good reasons to support the temple of God. But at a certain point their tradition went a little bit overboard.
 
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BobRyan

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I never said I think gentile converts are obligated to keep the law. They are not. I dispute your statment, "If you keep even part of it you reject Christ and must do all of it, including a full return to Judaism."

I read that as you saying if a gentile decides to keep any part of the law - let's say they choose not to eat pork - he/she has (a) rejected Christ and (b) must keep all of the law including a return to Judaism. I don't think you can provide any scriptural authority for that, if that is what you meant.

Let's say a gentile chooses not to covet, or not to take God's name in vain - does that mean they are now required to make animal sacrifices??
 
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Nathan@work

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There is nothing wrong with observing the Sabbath. You correctly say that whoever observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The Catholic church recognizes Seventh Day Adventists as christians. You are incorrect when you call the Sabbath, the Lord's day. In the history of Christianity, the Lord's day is know as a day distinct from the Sabbath. St Augustine said it best. Today is the eighth day after Easter and is known as Divine Mercy Sunday. In the office of readings for today, we see the significance of the eighth day in God's plan for salvation. This is from a sermon by St Augustine:

This is the octave day of your new birth. Today is fulfilled in you the sign of faith that was prefigured in the Old Testament by the circumcision of the flesh on the eighth day after birth. When the Lord rose from the dead, he put off the mortality of the flesh; his risen body was still the same body, but it was no longer subject to death. By his resurrection he consecrated Sunday, or the Lord’s day. Though the third after his passion, this day is the eighth after the Sabbath, and thus also the first day of the week.
And so your own hope of resurrection, though not yet realised, is sure and certain, because you have received the sacrament or sign of this reality, and have been given the pledge of the Spirit. If, then, you have risen with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your hearts on heavenly things, not the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, your life, appears, then you too will appear with him in glory.



Sunday worship is not the mark of the beast. Sunday was consecrated by Jesus' Resurrection. On the Seventh Day, God rested, but on the Eighth day, He rose again and went to work. We were given the great commission, go into the world and make disciples of all nations baptizing them the the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It's not time to rest, it's time to work. Life is a constant battle against the wickedness and snares of the devil, who prowls about the world seeking the ruin of souls. The Judahizers were causing the ruin of souls, and they needed to be rebuked by the Apostles. The souls on earth are called the Church Militant, because we are in constant battle.

If you want to keep the Sabbath, then do so for God, and do not judge those that do not agree with you and have very spiritual godly reasons for worshiping on Sunday. As God's word says in the book of Romans, Who are you to judge another man's servant?
I fully agree that the Church considers Sunday as the Lords day. Monday is also, Tuesday, Wednesday, they all are.

John, in Revelation, is referencing the weekly Sabbath however. There is no reason to think otherwise.

The significance of it is that John understood what the weekly Sabbath meant. It was meant to point to the Sabbath day of creation - the day God created for us to rest - to rest in Christ our Lord.

All along it was known as the Sabbath, but after Christ’s finished work, we now understand it is the Lords day. Not the weekly seventh day - but the day God rested - and the day we rest in Christ.
 
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Dave L

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I never said I think gentile converts are obligated to keep the law. They are not. I dispute your statment, "If you keep even part of it you reject Christ and must do all of it, including a full return to Judaism."

I read that as you saying if a gentile decides to keep any part of the law - let's say they choose not to eat pork - he/she has (a) rejected Christ and (b) must keep all of the law including a return to Judaism. I don't think you can provide any scriptural authority for that, if that is what you meant.
Paul says you have fallen from grace if your motive is obedience to the Law.
 
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Dave L

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Eph 6:1-2 Paul makes it very clear that gentiles are supposed to keep God's Commandments where the command to honor parents "is the first commandment in that unit of Law" with a promise.
He uses it as an example. The reason being, the born again have a motive of love that naturally does these things. If God needs to threaten your Church with death not to kill people, I would probably move on if I were you.
 
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seeking.IAM

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I never said I think gentile converts are obligated to keep the law. They are not. I dispute your statment, "If you keep even part of it you reject Christ and must do all of it, including a full return to Judaism..."

Paul says you have fallen from grace if your motive is obedience to the Law.

That is not the same thing as saying if one choses to keep a part of the law, they have rejected Christ. Paul is saying that keeping the law alone cannot save you. He is not saying if you chose to do some of it, you have rejected Christ.
 
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Dave L

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That is not the same thing as saying if one choses to keep a part of the law, they have rejected Christ. Paul is saying that keeping the law alone cannot save you. He is not saying if you chose to do some of it, you have rejected Christ.
Any part means you need to keep all of it which is a rejection of Christ.
 
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Nathan@work

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There is a difference between ‘keeping’ the law and ‘working’ according to the law.

I, by new nature, do not have any idols or believe in any other gods.

In that I am ‘keeping’ the law, but I am by no means doing those things in ‘work’ towards God.
 
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Nathan@work

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As you point out -
Matthew 12:8 (ESV) "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

Is 58:13 "“If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot
From doing as you wish on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,
Right. We rest in the finished work of Christ as God rested on the Sabbath.

In Christ we do not seek our own way but the way in which He leads us by His Spirit.
 
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Dave L

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There is a difference between ‘keeping’ the law and ‘working’ according to the law.

I, by new nature, do not have any idols or believe in any other gods.

In that I am ‘keeping’ the law, but I am by no means doing those things in ‘work’ towards God.
Jesus teaches that we are to give instead of simply doing nothing, like not stealing.
 
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Nathan@work

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Jesus teaches that we are to give instead of simply doing nothing, like not stealing.
True. But giving is not ‘working’ based on the law.

Giving is a result of our love, not out of obligation to the law.
 
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Dave L

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True. But giving is not ‘working’ based on the law.

Giving is a result of our love, not out of obligation to the law.
Correct. Believers do not need the Law. It was for wicked people given under threat of death. Do you think you need this? Yikes.
 
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Nathan@work

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Correct. Believers do not need the Law. It was for wicked people given under threat of death. Do you think you need this? Yikes.

No, believers do not need the law as given at Horeb as a guardian like the Children of Israel did.

We have the Spirit to lead us now. :). We walk in love not fear.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Any part means you need to keep all of it which is a rejection of Christ.

Once again, can you back that up with scripture, or is it merely your opinion? So, if I choose to not get a tattoo because I think that is what God wanted, I have rejected Christ? I don't think it works like that. And, I don't think you can back that up with scripture.
 
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dqhall

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That idea about circumcision was never commanded in OT or NT for gentiles and Acts 15 also agrees. How is this a surprise?

Also John 5 is long before the cross - so even by the most extreme policy of deleting commandments in the NT - it would not be a statement about the Sabbath deleted in John 5. In fact in John 5 Jesus does not say "the Father has only started work today" rather it has always been true - and the Sabbath was always in effect to that point in time. The Father's work did not cancel the 4th commandment at Sinai or to this very day.




1. The Adventist denomination has not ever celebrated the feast days as a denominational norm or practice. But we allow the Romans 14 principle that it is up to each individual if they choose to do it.

2. The Adventist denomination does have a doctrine about not eating unclean meat - and lamb is not an unclean meat. Individual members could choose to celebrate Passover if they wish. We also do not have a doctrine saying it is sin to eat clean meat. The church does teach that a vegetarian diet is better for your health.
If this is true, Sabbath was never commanded for Gentiles, only Jews.
 
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The Sabbath was given exclusively to the descendants of Israel.
Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.
 
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