Creationism/Evolution

chad kincham said:

Except evolution exists for the sole purpose of negating any need for the existence of God, and replace Him with time and chance. Trying to make the Bible fit the metaphysical philosophy of naturalistic materialism called evolution, is a mistake.

The evolutionists don’t respect you for attempting to do so, either.

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No, evolution explains HOW the world was created.
The Bible just says THAT it was created - by God.

I'm not trying to make the Bible fit anything. The Bible reveals God to us; his nature, his will and his plan. It tells us clearly that the universe, and everything we see around us, came about because God wanted it to be so; he spoke, and it happened. The Bible doesn't say whether it happened instantly or over many years. That is not its purpose; it is not a scientific textbook. When we read it, it sounds as if it was all instant, and within a short space of time - i.e one minute the universe didn't exist; 6 days later it consisted of stars, planets and a fully populated earth, covered in vegetation and water. That may have been the case, or it may have taken millions of years to get to that point.

Whichever position a person has, nothing changes the fact that they are sinners and can only be saved through Jesus.

Simon D said:

If that's the case why did God make us sinners?

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He didn't.

He gave Adam and Eve a command not to eat from a certain tree - they broke that command all by themselves. They chose to disobey their Maker; he didn't force them to.

Simon D said:

'For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.' Romans 8:22-23

Paul tells us that the whole of creation changed when sin came into the world.

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The verse you posted does not say that the whole creation changed when the sin (of Adam) came into the world.
The verse also does not specify what "the whole creation" means - the whole humanity? All living things? The whole physical universe? We can only guess. But what is more probable - our worldview or ancient people's worldview?

Simon D said:

This will change through Christ's sacrifice buying back the earth,' The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.' Isa 11:6

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Again it depends on how we work with the Bible. Taking every word as literal or looking for the deeper meaning behind the words?

Simon D said:

I'm really interested though if you could answer this part,

Let's say Adam evolved then how did he know how to talk how did he learn a language and what relationship did he have with his mother who was an animal and where did Eve come from?

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Evolution does not (commonly) do huge jumps. Its not that one creature was 100% animal and its child was 100% human.
Also, the language evolves through time, its not something that is complete from day 1.
Eve (if she was literal and not just symbolic) came from the same or similar group of homo sapiens as Adam did.

Simon D said:

As you believe in evolution then why did we evolve a sin nature? Think about this... If Adam evolved then he either evolved a sin nature or he evolved a sinless nature.

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i) I never said that Adam evolved.
ii) whether he did or not is not the point. After Adam had been created he was given a command by God, and he chose to disobey that command. Sin came into the world after Adam disobeyed - Paul says that sin and death came through one man, and that life and peace also came through one man; Jesus, the second Adam.

HOW Adam was made does not negate the fact that he WAS made, by God, that his Creator specifically asked him not to do something, and he disobeyed.

Simon D said:

This is just you showing that the idea of theistic evolution does not stand up to scrutiny. Either Adam was man and his mother was an animal or it's a gradual change which means we are just animals like everything else and we never had a sinless nature in which to fall from.

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Its a false dichotomy.

Even if we change gradually during time, it does not mean "we are just animals". We are more, because we realize ourselves more, we can express our thoughts in words, we can simulate the world in our thoughts etc.

It also does not mean we have nothing common with them, in our body, DNA, chemistry or impulses. We develop medical treatments and test them on animals first, because we are not so different. We are so similar that antidepressants for humans work even for lobsters.

Its not "either - or". We are partly animals, partly something more.

Simon D said:

I've already asked you how you reconcile Eve (and Adam) in terms of evolution with Genesis. It's obvious that if evolution is believed then Genesis is wrong, because you don't evolve into a walking talking man if your immediate mother was an animal... But it's not like I am being disingenuous and didn't ask you how you do it... Please tell

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You're reasoning backwards. You're saying if evolution is true then Paul can't be completely accurate, and so evolution can't be true. The problem is that we have good reason to believe that evolution is true and no reason to believe that Paul is inerrant other than the desires of lots of Christians for him to be.

Paul learned a lot about Jesus, both through Jesus appearing to him and through talking with the disciples. But that doesn't make every analogy he uses in talking about Jesus factual.

Darwinian evolutionary theory is unbiblical and unproven.

You can't eat at the table of demons and of angels.

As is written, if I speak of earthly things and ye don't believe, how then will ye believe when I speak of heavenly things?

The fall occurred due to the temptation for man to judge for himself and not trust in God.

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (Job 38:4)

And yet here we are, still with professing believers torn between God's plain truth and the vain oppositions of so-called science.

Simon D said:

Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

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there is no such thing in Evolution ,Devil usually likes to pick up things and turn it upside down there is devolution or devilution if u get the joke , basically human is not evolving but is degrading , getting more and more mutations and living less and less as of lifetime span, ye in middle ages maybe people lived to 36 compared to now 66 average for men but still compared to 900 its so bad degreaded

Simon D said:

Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

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I always wonder what people mean by asking if evolution is "compatible" with Christianity.

Is the building of computers compatible with Christianity?

Is the art of making pasta compatible?

Is the science behind black holes compatible?

Is music theory compatible?

The theory of evolution is a scientific theory that has been proven to have a certain degree of merit, but not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

This scientific theory should not really pose as any threat to Christian theology, unless that theology is narrowly defined.

God has given us a universe to discover and not outlined all the solutions to physics within the scriptures because that's for us to discover.

One can believe that evolution holds a high degree of merit and possibility while still believing God created it.

The Adam story does not directly relate to all this, as not only Christian evolutionists believe the story of Adam and Eve may not be completely literal. (And most I know believe that Adam and Eve were real.)

One can also believe they existed and the fall happened and the Garden of Eden was real while believing that the story as given is a simplified, metaphorical version to try explain what happened in the easiest way possible across generations and cultures and human history.

Nuance should be allowed in this debate.

The root of this issue is people actually don't believe what Bible says , they try to often put modern things science falsely so called teach and mix it with Bible . It does not work and it will never work
God said wisdom of this world is foolishnes with God yet they try to make it wise and make themselves wise and on top of it bash people who literally believe what the God's word says its pretty sad.

I really don't know how can somebody mistake God taking earth making clay out of it and making man, then in the lifeless body he gives breath of life and body become alive to million of years evolution and man comming as one of ape's ancestors.

NomNomPizza said:

The root of this issue is people actually don't believe what Bible says

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This is where you're mistaken. We believe the Bible, but the Bible doesn't explain everything as it's not a science text book. Strong in Him explained it perfectly as well as the link I provided yesterday.

Either way that you believe we came into existence is not a salvation issue.

Simon D said:

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

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Because some want it to be so, and they will create a reason.

Kenny'sID said:

Because some want it to be so, and they will create a reason.

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We can easily say the same for you.