Voting rights vs Gun Rights

Estrid · Apr 9, 2021

NxNW said:
Some might say belief in the supernatural is an indication of being uneducated.

Reference is to political issues and the character of the candidates

Oompa Loompa · Apr 10, 2021

NxNW said:
At which point the GOP will be sure to shut down the DMV in minority areas.

Why do you say that?

Oompa Loompa · Apr 10, 2021

Sparagmos said:
You should have read just a bit further down the page. If it’s not a birth certificate, it’s another document they are unlikely to have. And this discussion isn’t limited to Georgia. I had to have a birth certificate to get an ID in Oregon. I’ve never served in the military and didn’t have a passport.

What do you need to get an ID in Georgia?
Most residents will need a Secure ID, Georgia’s REAL ID-compliant option. As such, the documents needed for state ID include any one of the following forms of primary identification:

A U.S. passport or passport card (valid or expired less than 10 years)

An original or certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate or a Consular Report of Birth Abroad

A DHS Certificate of Naturalization (form N-550 or N-570)

A DHS Certificate of Citizenship (form N-560 or N-561)

SSA Numident Records or Original US Military Discharge Papers (applies only to applicants born before January 1, 1940)

Edit: AND many people can’t get or find their birth certificate because of bad record keeping, particularly older black people. I think I’ve already mentioned this?

Here is an interesting thought. If someone doesn't have the basic documents required to get an ID, what makes you think that they will have the basic documents to validate their covid vaccination passport that may be required to vote in person? Is the requirement for covid passport to vote (as some suggest may be required) not produce the same problems as a simple id?

Oompa Loompa · Apr 10, 2021

Sparagmos said:
You should have read just a bit further down the page. If it’s not a birth certificate, it’s another document they are unlikely to have. And this discussion isn’t limited to Georgia. I had to have a birth certificate to get an ID in Oregon. I’ve never served in the military and didn’t have a passport.

What do you need to get an ID in Georgia?
Most residents will need a Secure ID, Georgia’s REAL ID-compliant option. As such, the documents needed for state ID include any one of the following forms of primary identification:

A U.S. passport or passport card (valid or expired less than 10 years)

An original or certified copy of a U.S. birth certificate or a Consular Report of Birth Abroad

A DHS Certificate of Naturalization (form N-550 or N-570)

A DHS Certificate of Citizenship (form N-560 or N-561)

SSA Numident Records or Original US Military Discharge Papers (applies only to applicants born before January 1, 1940)

Edit: AND many people can’t get or find their birth certificate because of bad record keeping, particularly older black people. I think I’ve already mentioned this?

Why are older black people worse at record keeping than, let's say, older white people? It sounds like you don't have very high expectations for black folk in general. Like we need assistance from white folk to take care of our basic needs.

Estrid · Apr 10, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Why do you say that?

It's called trolling. Or "white eyes".

Sparagmos · Apr 10, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Why are older black people worse at record keeping than, let's say, older white people? It sounds like you don't have very high expectations for black folk in general. Like we need assistance from white folk to take care of our basic needs.

Its the recordkeeping at the courthouse, etc., not the recordkeeping of individuals who don’t have a birth certificate. Slow down, dude.

Oompa Loompa · Apr 10, 2021

Sparagmos said:
Its the recordkeeping at the courthouse, etc., not the recordkeeping of individuals who don’t have a birth certificate. Slow down, dude.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you saying that courthouse intentionally misplace vital records for black people? You're the one who said that old black people are particularly bad at finding birth certificates.

Sparagmos · Apr 10, 2021

I didn’t mean find in their house. I mean they call the county they were born in, and that county can’t find it. I think you KNOW this because @RDKirk posted about it in post 78 on this thread! It’s likely die to the fact that years ago, the records for whites and blacks were kept separate in the south. And in some cases, birth certificates were never issued.

obtaining a birth certificate proves challenging for Americans

RDKirk said:
Back in the 90s, I had to help my mother get her birth certificate from Arkansas. I called the county she was born in and asked the clerk.

The woman was very polite, but she searched and searched...no birth certificate for my mother could be found. She asked me to call back the next day, while she would continue to look.

The next day...she still couldn't find it. Nor had she found it the day after that.

Finally, she hesitated a moment and then asked, "Pardon me for asking...but is your mother black?"

I said, "Yes."

She said, "Oh!" Then five minutes later: "I found it!"

The birth certificates in that county were still separated by race (at least those dating back to when they were separated by race).

Also in the 90s, I had the opportunity to do some community service in Montgomery, Alabama, that involved a young elementary school teacher and I going through old county school records stored in stacks and stacks of boxes, putting them in order so a team could properly file them. We had spent most of the day working on the records when we finally got to one of the boxes in the very back of the room. After a while as we tallied the records in that box, the young teacher, a white woman from North Dakota, suddenly noticed that all of them had listed the race as "colored"...which hadn't been noted in any of the other boxes, but was consistent on all the records in this box.

I had already noticed that...and I understood why, which I had to explain to the young lady. I also already knew that in those years, such school records were the only records black people often had.

I suspect there are lots of birth certificate issues for many people who were born in rural areas fifty or more years ago, and particularly if they were the records of blacks stuck in a separate box.

NxNW · Apr 10, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Why do you say that?

Based on past experience.

Oompa Loompa · Apr 10, 2021

NxNW said:
Based on past experience.

Is the GOP control of voting areas?

Oompa Loompa · Apr 10, 2021

@Sparagmos just wanted to see if you have found an answer to the question asked in post #50.

Oompa Loompa said:
Yet the vast majority of blacks are in favor of voter identification requirements. Why would the vast majority of blacks be in favor of disproportionately hurting the black community?

RDKirk · Apr 11, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
@Sparagmos again I ask for a third time. Please explain why the vast majority of black voters support laws that disproportionately disenfranchise them?

It depends on how you ask the question and the specifics of the question. It also depends on the perception of the real purpose of a particular law.

RDKirk's Law: "It's never just one thing. There is always more than one thing happening."

jacks · Apr 11, 2021

I wonder if Election Ink would be a viable alternative for those without ID? You would have to vote in person, but it seems to work in other countries.

Oompa Loompa · Apr 12, 2021

NxNW said:
There is a difference between 'finding' and 'obtaining'.

Get a Georgia State ID Card
Show me exactly where a birth certificate is required to get a Georgia state ID? Feel free to search other state requirements as well. Unless we are now shifting to goal post by saying black folk have a harder time remembering their social security number.

GreekOrthodox · Apr 12, 2021

Oompa, it is listed in another page.

You must present documents showing your identity, residential address, full social security number, and U.S. citizenship or proof of lawful status in the United States. Please refer to Real ID Requirements for more information.

REAL ID REQUIREMENTS

Identity Document (one document) - An original or certified document to prove WHO YOU ARE such as a certified Birth Certificate, US Passport, Certificate of Naturalization, I-551, etc.
Your Social Security Card. (one document) - Visit Social Security Administration for more information.
Two Documents showing Georgia residency - where you live (e.g. utility bill, phone bill). These documents must show a street address and be dated within the past six (6) months.
Non-Citizens - must provide proof of identity and/or lawful status

Justatruthseeker · Apr 12, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Simple question. I hear from many people that voter ID laws are wrong because voting is a constitutional right. But owning a firearm is a constitutional right too. So why is it wrong to require photo identification to vote but not wrong to require a photo identification (and background check) to own a firearm? I would love to someone to explain that to me

First off voting was not originally a constitutional right. It exists nowhere in the constitution as originally written. Amendments were passed So that one can simply not be discriminated against due to race, sex or religion if voting.

But also one MUST be a citizen of the United States to vote. Without ID there are no checks to make sure only citizens which are given this right, versus non-citizens which are expressly denied this right, are the only ones voting.

It is in fact unconstitutional not to require ID so that only authorized citizens can vote and foreign powers can not interfere in our elections.

Clizby WampusCat · Apr 12, 2021

NxNW said:
Notaries cost money, and they are unreliable. Asking questions can be slanted to make it harder for certain demographics to pass, ie Jim Crow. Etc.

Just because there is no perfect way does not mean we should not try, these methods are effective but not perfect. What I mean by asking questions is asking them some of their registration information and then comparing that to the rest of their registration information. I don't see how that is harder for minorities to do than for non minorities.

The federal government requires people to have an ID for Welfare, gun registration, petition the government, right to assembly, marry and I am sure there are more.

NxNW · Apr 12, 2021

Clizby WampusCat said:
The federal government requires people to have an ID for Welfare, gun registration, petition the government, right to assembly, marry and I am sure there are more.

Are you saying we have to show ID to attend a protest?

Clizby WampusCat · Apr 12, 2021

NxNW said:
Are you saying we have to show ID to attend a protest?

No, a lot of times the organizers to get a permit must show ID for some situations.

Bradskii · Apr 13, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
...because the elections are rigged.

I read about that happening somewhere recently.

Voting rights vs Gun Rights

Which is preferable? You can only pick one.

Require photo identification to both buy a gun and vote.

Don't require identification for either voting or buying a gun because they are both constitutional

Well-Known Member

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner

Er Victus

Against both police brutality and cop killing.

Psalti Chrysostom

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?

Similar threads