Creationism/Evolution

Simon D · Apr 10, 2021

Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

Thomas White · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

What did the process of Adam's creation look like? When we bake a cake, we start with the ingredients. The ingredients go through several phases before the cake forms. God formed Adam from dust. What were the phases between dust and Adam?

Akita Suggagaki · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

Maybe Paul's belief is wrong.
Or maybe he was speaking metaphorically.

Akita Suggagaki · Apr 10, 2021

Akita Suggagaki said:
Maybe Paul's belief is wrong. He had a different cosmology.
Or maybe he was speaking metaphorically.

Silverback · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

I don't think theistic evolution can stand a lot of scrutiny, I also understand many believers have a problem with the biblical account of creation.

I simply accept the Genesis account of creation on faith as written. There are many issues in Gods word that are not explained in depth, the temptation of Eve, the flood, and the talking donkey come to mind.

It's just a matter of faith, you can never reconcile these types of events with science.

trophy33 · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

Christianity is a belief that Jesus was Christ.

Christianity is not taking every verse in the Bible as scientific or the complete set of cultural ideas of Paul.

Does evolution make it impossible that Jesus is Christ? No.
Does taking first chapters of Genesis as a mythological drama make it impossible that Jesus is Christ? No.

Simon D · Apr 10, 2021

myst33 said:
Christianity is a belief that Jesus was Christ.

Christianity is not taking every verse in the Bible as scientific or the complete set of cultural ideas of Paul.

Does evolution make it impossible that Jesus is Christ? No.
Does taking first chapters of Genesis as a mythological drama make it impossible that Jesus is Christ? No.

The problem is that if Paul was wrong about one thing, how do we know what else he is wrong about. It's pretty important stuff if we want to be sure we have our facts right about what Paul tells us about the Lord, so for me it does matter.

trophy33 · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
The problem is that if Paul was wrong about one thing, how do we know what else he is wrong about. It's pretty important stuff if we want to be sure we have our facts right about what Paul tells us about the Lord, so for me it does matter.

He was referring to the Genesis story, so he was not wrong. The story is there, in the Bible. He could believe its literal (or maybe not), but thats not our problem.

Akita Suggagaki · Apr 10, 2021

myst33 said:
He was referring to the Genesis story, so he was not wrong. The story is there, in the Bible. He could believe its literal (or maybe not), but thats not our problem.

Yes, one could refer to Job or Jonah or even Promethius to make a point.

renniks · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

No. Jesus confirmed a world wide flood also and that Adam was the first man. None of that agrees with darwinism.

trophy33 · Apr 10, 2021

Akita Suggagaki said:
Yes, one could refer to Job or Jonah or even Promethius to make a point.

Paul made reference to Greek poets, to Greek medical myths (like the long hair in men), to stoicism... why not to Genesis.

Simon D · Apr 10, 2021

myst33 said:
Paul made reference to Greek poets, to Greek medical myths (like the long hair in men), to stoicism... why not to Genesis.

Notwithstanding the very astute post by renniks, the problem you and dare I say maybe all of us have is that the Genesis creation is central to the fall of man which creates original sin. Without original sin then the question continues to why did Jesus have to die (He had to die because people inherit the curse of sin from Adam). It actually carries a lot of weight for the continuity of the Bible and the purpose of our Lord Jesus Christ.

trophy33 · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
Notwithstanding the very astute post by renniks, the problem you and dare I say maybe all of us have is that the Genesis creation is central to the fall of man which creates original sin. Without original sin then the question continues to why did Jesus have to die (He had to die because people inherit the curse of sin from Adam). It actually carries a lot of weight for the continuity of the Bible and the purpose of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats fine, because there is no original sin. Its just a tradition based on Augustine's mistake.

AUGNET : 1311 Greek language

Augustine's mistake about original sin - Gentle Wisdom

Taodeching · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
Hello!

I have a question and I would appreciate the input of the good people of this fine internet community!

My question is, is evolution compatible with a belief in Christianity?

So for some background to my research on this, I understand there is strict creationism (Genesis is literal), then there is the position that it is just a story, and that life evolved through theistic evolution. It's even said that Genesis creation was never to be taken at least fully literally.

So here is my thing, if evolution is true, why did Paul say,

'For Adam was first formed, then Eve.' 1 Tim 2:13.

It is clear that Paul believed in a literal creation of Adam, then Eve.

So if Paul is making it clear that it is not a story, but it's true, how can theistic evolution be reconciled as a genuine Christian belief?

Yes, why? Because we don't really know how it happened. The Bible is a Theological book not a science book it was not written to disclose everything to us, for that God gave us a brain to figure it out. In Ancient times all they knew was what was in their sacred books so every culture believed in some form of creation. So when Paul writes he is writing from his knowledge at the time to others at that time. If perchance Paul wrote at this time he may write differently. Christianity is about Christ not origins of the human race

Simon D · Apr 10, 2021

myst33 said:
Thats fine, because there is no original sin. Its just a tradition based on Augustine's mistake.

AUGNET : 1311 Greek language

Augustine's mistake about original sin - Gentle Wisdom

'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:' Romans 5:12

People can believe what they want but the Bible is pretty clear that original sin is the reason why we're all sinning and it's the reason why Jesus had to sacrifice himself.

You can believe what you want but if you are looking to believe in the Biblical account of Jesus then these are concepts that you can't really avoid.

trophy33 · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:' Romans 5:12

People can believe what they want but the Bible is pretty clear that original sin is the reason why we're all sinning and it's the reason why Jesus had to sacrifice himself.

You can believe what you want but if you are looking to believe in the Biblical account of Jesus then these are concepts that you can't really avoid.

This English translation you used actually says nothing about the original sin. It just says that Adam was the first man who sinned and that we all sin.

Thats not the doctrine of the original sin. Our sinning is not dependent on Adam's sin. We sin on our own.

Isilwen · Apr 10, 2021

renniks said:
Adam was the first man

Could be that Adam was the first homo sapien sapien which is our species.

Simon D · Apr 10, 2021

myst33 said:
This English translation you used actually says nothing about the original sin. It just says that Adam was the first man who sinned and that we all sin.

Thats not the doctrine of the original sin. Our sinning is not dependent on Adam's sin. We sin on our own.

The verse says that by one man sin entered the world. That refers to the first sin, which is the original, because it's the first.

Your link hinges on the idea that one word has been misinterpreted by Augustine in one verse (Romans 5:12). (Think back to 1 Tim 2:13).

I'm not sure how we got to this place, I had a quick recap and it appears you were saying that Paul could quote Genesis as any other myth (you tied this in with something about long hair on men being a medical Greek myth).

I get it: evolution (theistic or otherwise) can only be incorporated into Christianity if we rewrite the Bible. This was pretty much what I was thinking. Thanks for your input

Simon D · Apr 10, 2021

Isilwen said:
Could be that Adam was the first homo sapien sapien which is our species.

How would Eve fit into this because she didn't evolve but was created also?

Isilwen · Apr 10, 2021

Simon D said:
How would Eve fit into this because she didn't evolve but was created also?

God decided to give Adam a helper and created her?

Remember, the Bible was written in a time when they didn't know what we know today. It had to be written for the people of the time. We are reading books from before Christ was born and afterward, but not in modern times. We understand that the world is round, that the earth rotates around the sun, etc... Since they didn't back then, the Bible was written for the people of the time and how they understood things to be.

I believe in evolution and Christ, just because you believe one doesn't mean that you cannot believe in the other.

Creationism/Evolution

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads