Pointless to Focus on Sin

CleanSoul

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I did not know the Bible called it that.
The Bible is not what Jesus left us when He ascended to heaven. He left us the church He created. That church is still here, being guided and protected by the holy Spirit.
 
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Thomas White

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The Bible is not what Jesus left us when He ascended to heaven. He left us the church He created. That church is still here, being guided and protected by the holy Spirit.

Sure. What is the Church?
 
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Thomas White

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This depends on what church your talking about.

Is it the meeting-place for Christians to meet and encourage one another in the faith, and fellowship with one another and participate in things like baptisms and the Lord's Supper?

Or is it individuals who belong to Christ and in word and deed take their faith with them to the lost?

Both are the called the church... I think having the meeting place be for the unsaved is a mistake, because that's a place for believers to encourage one another in the faith.

The church as a group can certainly reach out to their local community, go door to door to share Christ with the lost, feed the poor, help those in need...

But to neglect one another is neglect, the assembly is for believers...while the unsaved can visit to learn more about our faith, that's not the primary purpose of assembly.

Being Christian in this world isn't easy, and we need one another.

I agree with you completely.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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For believers, it's different. We have an obligation to hold each other accountable. For the nonbeliever, we should be focusing on one thing: the love of Christ.
Oh I do agree with loving Christ first. There is no motivation unless you love Him. I can personally attest to that. I loved Christ since second grade yet I did not have the Holy Spirit [Catholic]. It was not until I went off into Eastern Philosophy and Hinduism that I realized there was no room for Him. So I seeked Him only and found salvation. Now that being said, I was sinning with fornication even though I loved Him. Then there was an ah-ha moment. How could I hurt my Lord with my sin??? Hypocracy was revealed to me. Anyway, my story. Be blessed.
 
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Jaxxi

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The Bible is not what Jesus left us when He ascended to heaven. He left us the church He created. That church is still here, being guided and protected by the holy Spirit.
So you don't believe the Bible to be the word of God.? The church is not a reference point that I can go to that is without sin since it can be corrupted and is filled with sinners. The Bible is Holy and without sin and there I can find truth. Anything outside of the Bible is false doctrine.
 
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CleanSoul

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So you don't believe the Bible to be the word of God.?

It is the inerrant word of God, of course. But, when Jesus ascended to heaven, the Bible did not fall from the sky with a loud voice that said, "read this, and whatever you think it means, is what it means."

The church is not a reference point that I can go to that is without sin since it can be corrupted

Didn't Jesus say, "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."(?) Against what? The church He created. If there is corruption and sin by the leaders, that is because of their free will, don't you think? But the teachings of the church He created is protected and guided by the holy Spirit.

The Bible is Holy and without sin

Yes, because, how would a Bible sin?

?Where did that come from?

Pope Pius IX, who is a successor to St. Peter, (it is called apostolic succession) in 1854 defined it, even though it was already widely accepted as truth.


So again, where in the Bible does it say Mary was the " immaculate conception". ?

Where does the Bible say it is the sole source of faith and instruction?
 
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Rene Loup

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God is love, but He is NOT an enabler.

Would you continue to "love" a drug abuser by ignoring his addiction that is hurting himself and others? ...Or would you get him into rehab? What would be the first step towards the latter?

The first step towards solving any problem is to first admit there is one. This is how repentance starts. Acknowledging sin is the first step towards getting saved and having a relationship with God. Afterwards, we will spend our entire lives learning and applying the Fruit of the Spirit, and it is NEVER complete without learning the Acts of the Flesh as well. The Holy Spirit will renew the Christian's mind, but will NEVER enable his or her sins.

God the Father is the responsible Father towards His children. The opposite of a loving father is one who spoils his children and fails to discipline them for their bad behaviour. Permissive parenting only produces children with poor self-discipline, low emotional intelligence, lower achievement, and even criminal behaviour.[3][4][5]

In Citation #5, God displays the following strategies towards His children:
  • Develop a list of basic household rules. In order for your kids to know how they are supposed to behave, they need to clearly understand what your expectations are.
The Ten Commandments are the most famous example of God's household rules (Deuteronomy 5:6-21, Exodus 20:1-17). A truly universal code of laws for any healthy society.
  • Follow through. This can be the greatest struggle for parents who tend to be permissive, but it is important. Try to be firm and consistent, but still loving. Help your kids understand why such rules are important by providing adequate feedback and explanations, but still make sure that consequences are in place.
God is unchanging. He is the same today as He was yesterday and ALWAYS will be (Hebrews 13:8, Malachi 3:6).
  • Make sure your kids understand the penalty of breaking the rules. Guidelines are useless unless there is some sort of consequence for failing to follow them. Time-outs and losing privileges are logical consequences for breaking the household rules.
  • Reward good behavior. Try to catch your children being good and allow special privileges when they display these actions.
For the ancient Israelites, if they obeyed God, they prospered. If they disobeyed God, they suffered. This is God the Father setting boundaries and enforcing accordingly (Deuteronomy 29:1-29, Malachi 3:6-12).

As G.I. Joe would say, "And knowing is half the battle!"[1][2]

15 You have known the Holy Scriptures since you were a child. The Scriptures are able to make you wise. And that wisdom leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching and for showing people what is wrong in their lives. It is useful for correcting faults and teaching how to live right. 17 Using the Scriptures, the person who serves God will be ready and will have everything he needs to do every good work.
~2 Timothy 3:15-17 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3 - International Children’s Bible

5 Here is the message we have heard from God and now tell to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 So if we say that we have fellowship with God, but we continue living in darkness, then we are liars. We do not follow the truth. 7 God is in the light. We should live in the light, too. If we live in the light, we share fellowship with each other. And when we live in the light, the blood of the death of Jesus, God’s Son, is making us clean from every sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we are fooling ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 But if we confess our sins, he will forgive our sins. We can trust God. He does what is right. He will make us clean from all the wrongs we have done. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, then we make God a liar. We do not accept God’s true teaching.
~1 John 1:5-10 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1 - International Children’s Bible

13 My brothers, God called you to be free. But do not use your freedom as an excuse to do the things that please your sinful self. Serve each other with love. 14 The whole law is made complete in this one command: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” 15 If you go on hurting each other and tearing each other apart, be careful! You will completely destroy each other.

The Spirit and Human Nature
16 So I tell you: Live by following the Spirit. Then you will not do what your sinful selves want. 17 Our sinful selves want what is against the Spirit. The Spirit wants what is against our sinful selves. The two are against each other. So you must not do just what you please. 18 But if you let the Spirit lead you, you are not under the law.

19 The result of sin’s control in our lives is clear. It includes sexual immorality, impurity and wild living, 20 worshiping false gods, doing witchcraft, hating, making trouble, being jealous, being angry, being selfish, making people angry with each other, causing divisions among people, 21 having envy, being drunk, having wild and wasteful parties, and doing other things like this. I warn you now as I warned you before: Those who do these things will not be in God’s kingdom. 22 But the Spirit gives love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. There is no law that says these things are wrong. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their own sinful selves. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. 25 We get our new life from the Spirit. So we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not be proud. We must not make trouble with each other. And we must not be jealous of each other.
~Galatians 5:13-26 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 5 - International Children’s Bible
  1. "Knowing is half the battle": Here's What It Truly Means
  2. Quotes from "G.I. Joe"
  3. Prevention & Early Intervention | Youth.gov
  4. Parenting Styles and Child Behavior — Psychology In Action
  5. Are You a Permissive Parent?
 
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chad kincham

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Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

You mean Jesus never said He came to call sinners unto repentance, never said, Go and sin no more, or said sin no more, lest a worse thing happen to you?

Except He did say those things.

Shalom.
 
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chad kincham

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His whole message was about love, not sin. Salvation from sin through that love. We are to spread that message of love. God will deal with the sin. Call out someone spreading a false message, of course, but it is not our place to go around accusing people of sinning.

You mean He didn’t say He came to call sinners unto repentance, didn’t say unless you repent you will perish, didn’t say go and sin no more, and never said sin no more lest a worse thing happen to you, didn’t take a whip into the temple because it was a den of thieves?

He did in my Bible.

Shalom.
 
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SamanthaAnastasia

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Churches should be guiding people on how to deepen their walk with Christ. Without that walk, that relationship, people don't care that they sin.
Yes, but just like a parent teaching a child not to run out into the road lest they get run over, the church also guides people in their walk by advising them what pitfalls to avoid which in turn deepens their walk with Christ.
 
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AubreyM

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So many churches spend all their time focusing on sin and believers shouldn't sin. It's a pointless focus.

Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

Our ministry should have one focus: love. Let the world know we are Christians by our love, not our rulebooks. If we love God and love one another, we will detest sin and be a lot happier.

Jesus didn't condemn the world and neither should we. Stop focusing on sin, and start loving like Jesus.

Hello Thomas white,

Love is the most important.

Instead of using the bible as a weapon to get others to stop sinning, or whatever.

It would be better to use the bible as a tool, to help others understand they hey, none of will ever be perfect and according to the bible Jesus Christ has already paid for the worlds sin and God in Christ reconciled the world to himself.

That anyone who believes and accepts the Lord Jesus Christ, in their hearts, and believe that God raised him from the dead on the third day shall be saved.

Saved to a newness of life unto the Kingdom of God, that opens many door ways to a new life spiritually with God.

It wont be easy, but God will make it easy if we lean on him rather than trusting ourselves in our own ability.

God has made promises; that we can have a relationship with him, we are pulled out of darkness into the kingdom of His son by his love, prayerful relationship, a renewed mind, and renewed heart, the holy spirit of promises which is reassurance of a seal of promise by God, our sins have been forgiven and forgotten, resurrection from the dead.

Jesus Christ said: And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

God and the Lord Jesus Christ have love for you, first.

We love them back because of this.

In starting a relationship our heart gets softer, to feel grateful for what they have done for us and the whole world, and your life begins to change, you start to walk with him, becoming more at peace, restful, reasonable, reassured in this life.

The world going to change? No it's gonna be what it has always been.

If you were to put a title on humans -> "they sin/ they make mistakes" -> God Sent Jesus Christ to take care of this for the entire world!

Good thing we have the Bible, it is so we can know God better now here on this earth.

This is what sin is according to greek: Believe we all miss the mark from time to time, but Jesus Christ never does miss the mark at all.

266 hamartía (a feminine noun derived from 1 /A "not" and 3313 /méros, "a part, share of") – properly, no-share ("no part of"); loss (forfeiture) because not hitting the target; sin (missing the mark).

266 /hamartía ("sin, forfeiture because missing the mark") is the brand of sin that emphasizes its self-originated (self-empowered) nature – i.e. it is not originated or empowered by God (i.e. not of faith, His inworked persuasion, cf. Ro 14:23).​

Thank you for your thread.
 
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Lawrence87

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I agree with much of your sentiments. Those who get on their high horse and preach condemnation towards the sinful tendencies of others are doing a massive disservice to Christianity. That kind of judgemental attitude is why a lot of people get turned off by our faith.

I totally understand the feeling that drives these people. The world does seem corrupt, but we all do things to add to that and we are called as Christians to address our own sin before we get on our soapbox and start screaming about homosexuals.

I don't necessarily think we need to preach love to others because that is easy to do with our lips. We should strive to embody that love.
 
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Dave L

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So many churches spend all their time focusing on sin and believers shouldn't sin. It's a pointless focus.

Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

Our ministry should have one focus: love. Let the world know we are Christians by our love, not our rulebooks. If we love God and love one another, we will detest sin and be a lot happier.

Jesus didn't condemn the world and neither should we. Stop focusing on sin, and start loving like Jesus.
What about Jesus' treatment of the wicked Pharisees?
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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If we are instructing people on how not to sin, then we are missing the point of discipleship. We should be instructing people on how to love and deepen their walk with Christ. Their personal habits are none of our business. The rest will come from that relationship.

I have heard this before from a local pastor and fellow minister only to sit and hear his frustration that people continued as they were when they needed to change.

His favourite statement when he preached [because he was schooled this way] was, "God loves you just the way you are."

This is an unfortunate statement for it leads the hearer to believe there is no need for change and the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about change.

When you are instructing people on how to love and deepen their walk with Christ you will often find it necessary to make them aware of their faults.

According to Paul their personal habits are our business for he said,

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So, you see, such doctrine that you speak of here is the tradition of men and not the word of God. I will not pay much mind to it.
 
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Marumorose

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So many churches spend all their time focusing on sin and believers shouldn't sin. It's a pointless focus.

Jesus didn't focus on sin and what sins not to commit. Why do we focus on it?

Our ministry should have one focus: love. Let the world know we are Christians by our love, not our rulebooks. If we love God and love one another, we will detest sin and be a lot happier..

Jesus didn't condemn the world and neither should we. Stop focusing on sin, and start loving like Jesus.
Sadly, people don't understand what is means to love Jesus Christ or God. When you lie, you don't love God. when you are greedy, you don't love God. We must not just love God but obey him too.
John 14:24 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
May God Bless You
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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Teach people to love God and their neighbor. Teach them how to find Christ. The Holy Spirit will figure out the rest.

And through whom will the Holy Spirit speak?

What kind of "finding" and "loving" is this? Does not love teach us not to do evil? Do we not find Christ by forsaking this world? Teach me how to love God and still sin, if you can.
 
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Thomas White

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I have heard this before from a local pastor and fellow minister only to sit and hear his frustration that people continued as they were when they needed to change.

His favourite statement when he preached [because he was schooled this way] was, "God loves you just the way you are."

This is an unfortunate statement for it leads the hearer to believe there is no need for change and the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about change.

When you are instructing people on how to love and deepen their walk with Christ you will often find it necessary to make them aware of their faults.

According to Paul their personal habits are our business for he said,

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

So, you see, such doctrine that you speak of here is the tradition of men and not the word of God. I will not pay much mind to it.

Of course the Gospel is about change. It takes quite a change to receive love and give love in return. God does love us as we are; otherwise, He would not offer us salvation. However, to receive that salvation, we must accept that love and love in return. That changes a person. The Gospel isn't about what we are doing wrong. It's about what Jesus did so that we can do right.
 
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Thomas White

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Yes, but just like a parent teaching a child not to run out into the road lest they get run over, the church also guides people in their walk by advising them what pitfalls to avoid which in turn deepens their walk with Christ.

Of course. Guiding people should never focus on the sin. It is a byproduct of a lack of love. Teaching about love and how to give/receive it should be the focus.
 
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