How strict: St Ignatius Brianchaninov On Avoiding Those Books with False Teachings

SalemsConcordance · Apr 7, 2021

Two questions, two parts on St Ignatius Brianchaninov's words.
1. He who reads the books of a heretic immediately communes with an evil, dark spirit of falsehood. This should not seem strange or incredible to you—this is the unanimous opinion of the Holy Fathers…

2. Let each personally choose for himself the reading from the Fathers which corresponds to his way of life...It is absolutely necessary that the reading correspond to one's way of life. IE, Hermits for hermits, monks for monks, those in the world, etc.

1. Books by Heretics
With the words of St Ignatius, how strict are you with yourself? I've removed myself from my old books on the blatant garbage (Jungian, transhumanist neurocognitive man-as-god, bi-bicameral mind lunacy) but I have a leaning to right-side zealotry. Please forgive me when I've offended the forum readers here.

In general, I avoid non-Orthodox readings on dogma, so how strict should one interpret here? I think that one may not even know there is an error when its by non-Orthodox on Christianity yes?

Many belove CS Lewis, but as a child Screwtape Letters led me to interest in demons, and then Anne Rice and Memnoch the Devil (Apollinarianism basically) - which let me denounce Christianity as a whole for 20 years and fall into the great wide net of relativism. I don't care to really dig into GK Chesterton (although I bought Orthodoxy), because all of his theology and writings led him to Catholicism.

The other side of this is false piety however. How did you deal with your zeal period, or, what is your balancing act here?

St Ignatius Brianchaninov On Avoiding Those Books with False Teachings

Once again I address you, faithful son of the Eastern Church, with a sincere, good word. This word is not my own—it belongs to the Holy Fathers. All my counsels come from them.

Keep your mind and heart from false teaching. Do not even speak about Christianity with people who have been infected with false thoughts; do not read books on Christianity that were written by heretics.

The Holy Spirit accompanies all Truth. He is the Spirit of Truth. The devil accompanies and acts together with every lie. He is false, and the father of lies.

He who reads the books of a heretic immediately communes with an evil, dark spirit of falsehood. This should not seem strange or incredible to you—this is the unanimous opinion of the Holy Fathers…

Only those religious books that are written by the Holy Fathers of the universal Orthodox Church are acceptable to read. The Orthodox Church requires this of her children.

If you think otherwise, or find this command of the Church less authoritative than your own opinions or the opinions of others who agree with you, then you are no longer a child of the Church, but a critic of the Church.

Do you call me a one-sided, unenlightened rigorist? Leave me my one-sidedness and all my other deficiencies. I would rather be a deficient, unenlightened child of the Orthodox Church than an apparently perfect man who would dare to instruct the Church, who would allow himself to disobey the Church, to separate from it. My words will be pleasant to the true children of the Orthodox Church.

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The Field

(Edit, removed the second question for which Church and Holy Fathers to read for those in the world - starting a different thread).

ArmyMatt · Apr 7, 2021

one of the Cappadocians has a work on how we can read pagan and non-Orthodox stuff. and many early Fathers were very well versed in pagan philosophy.

I think St Ignatius is more nuanced in these statements. especially since at the time, atheism was creeping in to Russia (St Theophan the recluse also writes about this).

GreekOrthodox · Apr 7, 2021

There is a set of books (Prayer / Virtue / and something else ... in the Unseen Warfare) published by the Antiochians that are a modified version for laity of St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain who translated and modified a RC book Unseen Warfare for monastic life.

ArmyMatt · Apr 7, 2021

and St Nektarios of Aegina adapted the Coptic Liturgy for our use.

SalemsConcordance · Apr 7, 2021

ArmyMatt said:
one of the Cappadocians has a work on how we can read pagan and non-Orthodox stuff. and many early Fathers were very well versed in pagan philosophy.

If you think of the Cappadocian Father later and the letter, please let me know, that sounds interesting. Perhaps I could have kept my Jungian stuff for a later date with stronger faith, since I was already exposed and study quit a bit of it and adjacent-heresy theologies which is running rampant now days with 'everyone is their own god' and relativism.

The St Ignatius advise seems more centered on heretics, not paganism in relation to Christianity? Or I can see that overlapping a bit - a pagan speaking to a Orthodox Christian and confusing them. To intentionally seek out to "compare" theology after coming to believe in the Orthodox faith seems like an error.

If we see those not falling into error are the Saints and Holy Fathers, then I wouldn't put myself on the level of Saints and Holy Fathers.

For example, I think this helps me on my waffling to get rid of these non-Orthodox books:

Iustitia Deu: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification (East, vs Protestant, vs Roman Catholics
The Identity of the New Testament Text IV, Pickering (very rationalist PHD on MSS vs Septuagent, etc.)

But, do I extend that to GK Chesterton, Everlasting Man - how am I going to know his Catholic leanings vs Orthodox?

CS Lewis and Miracles, for example, also starts with a very rationalistic Protestant pursuit, of which he was Anglican (I think), I put it down, maybe I'll pick it up later, but why?

When does this because what St Ignatius said "rigorist," and when is it just prudent since we are inundated with anti or perverted-Christ theologies?

GreekOrthodox said:
There is a set of books (Prayer / Virtue / and something else ... in the Unseen Warfare) published by the Antiochians that are a modified version for laity of St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain who translated and modified a RC book Unseen Warfare for monastic life.

I think this is part of my question - I wouldn't presume to ever read the Roman Catholic version, and then pretend I'm St Nicodemus and not fall into error. I would read the St Nicodemus' version.

ArmyMatt · Apr 7, 2021

I think something else to keep in mind is who St Ignatius is writing to. sometimes when Fathers write to monastics, they are more harsh and rigorous.

peregrinus2017 · Apr 8, 2021

For me, I have come to the conclusion that with the limited amount of time I have to invest in what I read and study, I must be careful to take in only what is most beneficial for my salvation. Of course, being the idiot that I am, I tend to need guidance as to what is truly beneficial. (My inclinations are often in conflict with the reality of my existence.)

Melily · Apr 9, 2021

I’m an avid reader (& catechumen) and have read 21 books on Orthodox Christianity in the last year. Before my first visit with a priest late last year I had read 14 books that I chose on my own based on recommendations from two Orthodox Christians I know. I shared what I had read with the priest and he approved of all but one. The one he didn’t wholeheartedly approve of was one that did help me understand my prior strange experience with charismatic Christianity in my youth though so even it helped me. I now just read what my priest, our church or people on TAW recommend.

buzuxi02 · Apr 9, 2021

It depends how grounded in the faith you are. Originally the heretical books were the apocryphal writings.
We can see how a few people today think they have attained secret knowledge from reading the gospel of Thomas and so on. Those well grounded will read it as an insight for historical clues and to what type of community such a book was written for etc
In modern Greece we see the popularity of hindu texts primarily to women about Yoga and kama sutra and all this other nonsense. Let's not forget about books on occult and tarot card reading etc.

Lukaris · Apr 9, 2021

buzuxi02 said:
It depends how grounded in the faith you are. Originally the heretical books were the apocryphal writings.
We can see how a few people today think they have attained secret knowledge from reading the gospel of Thomas and so on. Those well grounded will read it as an insight to the historical reasons and to what type of community was such a book written for etc
In modern Greece we see the popularity of hindu texts primarily to women about Yoga and kama sutra and all this other nonsense. Let's not forget about occult and tarot card reading etc.

Speaking of the “gospel” of Thomas, I believe is one of the most deceitful & clever repackage job ever done on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. A core example is its reinterpretation to discard alms giving, prayer, & fasting as the Lord calls for in Matthew 6:1-18 ( also note deceptive rewording of part of Matthew 15:17-19).

Compare “sayings” #14 & #104

14) Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do harm to your spirits. When you go into any land and walk about in the districts, if they receive you, eat what they will set before you, and heal the sick among them. For what goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth - it is that which will defile you."

104) They said to Jesus, "Come, let us pray today and let us fast."
Jesus said, "What is the sin that I have committed, or wherein have I been defeated? But when the bridegroom leaves the bridal chamber, then let them fast and pray."

https://www.marquette.edu/maqom/Gospel of Thomas Lambdin.pdf

These are not my insights, I recall them from a translation & sound orthodox analysis of this deceptive gospel. The authors of the book oddly titled when reissued in the 1990s ( originally published in 1960) as “The Secret Sayings of Jesus “ by Protestant Christians Robert Grant &
David N. Freedman. They did sound research from early church fathers in presenting their points.

I believe we need to take care of what is sound or unsound.

https://www.google.com/search?q=the...KABAbABHsgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp.

ArmyMatt · Apr 9, 2021

speaking also of the Gospel of Thomas, my first priest said the real one is in the Gospel of John, "My Lord and my God!"

truefiction1 · Apr 9, 2021

SalemsConcordance said:
Two questions, two parts on St Ignatius Brianchaninov's words.
1. He who reads the books of a heretic immediately communes with an evil, dark spirit of falsehood. This should not seem strange or incredible to you—this is the unanimous opinion of the Holy Fathers…

2. Let each personally choose for himself the reading from the Fathers which corresponds to his way of life...It is absolutely necessary that the reading correspond to one's way of life. IE, Hermits for hermits, monks for monks, those in the world, etc.

1. Books by Heretics
With the words of St Ignatius, how strict are you with yourself? I've removed myself from my old books on the blatant garbage (Jungian, transhumanist neurocognitive man-as-god, bi-bicameral mind lunacy) but I have a leaning to right-side zealotry. Please forgive me when I've offended the forum readers here.

In general, I avoid non-Orthodox readings on dogma, so how strict should one interpret here? I think that one may not even know there is an error when its by non-Orthodox on Christianity yes?

Many belove CS Lewis, but as a child Screwtape Letters led me to interest in demons, and then Anne Rice and Memnoch the Devil (Apollinarianism basically) - which let me denounce Christianity as a whole for 20 years and fall into the great wide net of relativism. I don't care to really dig into GK Chesterton (although I bought Orthodoxy), because all of his theology and writings led him to Catholicism.

The other side of this is false piety however. How did you deal with your zeal period, or, what is your balancing act here?

St Ignatius Brianchaninov On Avoiding Those Books with False Teachings

(Edit, removed the second question for which Church and Holy Fathers to read for those in the world - starting a different thread).

Depends on you. The Holy Fathers obviously read the writings of the heretics so that they could defend the truth against them. If one is weak in the faith, on the other hand, they could become injured in their unstable soul through reading falsehoods.

ArmyMatt · Apr 10, 2021

truefiction1 said:
Depends on you. The Holy Fathers obviously read the writings of the heretics so that they could defend the truth against them. If one is weak in the faith, on the other hand, they could become injured in their unstable soul through reading falsehoods.

the Fathers also interpreted heretical theology in a good way to clarify true theology, which takes a lot of discernment.

How strict: St Ignatius Brianchaninov On Avoiding Those Books with False Teachings

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