Is this story related to the Mark of the Beast?

Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Are there two Jerusalems in Galatians 4:24-31, and also in the Book of Revelation?
Which one is the city of "bondage" and which one is "above" and our "mother" (Hebrews 11:15-16)?

Which one is our home in Revelation 3:12, as opposed to the one in Revelation 11:8?

Which one is the Jerusalem found in my last post?

Luk_18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

If you have to ignore Luke 18:31 to make your viewpoint work, it can not be correct.

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You added the last part after I initially responded to this post. I'm not ignoring that verse. You know me better than to think I would ever ignore any verse. I would never say something like that to you.

Where does that verse say that He was crucified in Jerusalem? It doesn't. What that verse says is that they were going to go up to Jerusalem and they did. The verse does NOT say that literally "all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished" in Jerusalem. You are implying that, but it does not say that. Does that verse cancel out Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20?

BABerean2 · Apr 9, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
You added the last part after I initially responded to this post. I'm not ignoring that verse. Where does that verse say that He was crucified in Jerusalem? It doesn't. What that verse says is that they were going to go up to Jerusalem and they did. The verse does NOT say that literally "all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished" in Jerusalem. You are implying that, but it does not say that. Does that verse cancel out Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20?

I agree 100% that Jesus was crucified outside the city gates, at the city of Jerusalem.

This is the only way to reconcile all of the scripture.

Luk_9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

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Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
I agree 100% that Jesus was crucified outside the city gates, at the city of Jerusalem.

You are adding "at the city of Jerusalem". The city gates were at the outer boundary of the city. Anything outside the city gates was outside of the city itself. Also, John 19:20 says He was crucified "near the city". How could it happen "near the city" and in the city?

This is the only way to reconcile all of the scripture.

Luk_9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

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You say this as if we should accept Luke 9:31 and not Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20. We shouldn't ever allow one verse of scripture to trump another. They need to agree and we need to find a way to reconcile them rather than disregard one in favor of another.

I don't believe that Luke 9:31 is speaking specifically of the location that He would be crucified but rather is referring to the place where He would be given over to be sentenced to death. Otherwise, the verse would contradict Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20. I'm frankly surprised at your lack of willingness to accept what Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 say. You're trying to tell me that "outside the city gates" and "near the city" somehow means within the city. I just can't agree with that. We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point, especially since this is off topic in this thread, anyway. We can talk about it more privately, if you want.

Hammster · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Governor of Florida pushes back against "Vaccine Passorts":

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Btw, this has nothing to do with any biblical eschatology.

Hammster · Apr 9, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Except He wasn't crucified in Jerusalem as Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 indicate. Do you not accept what those verses say?

The book of Revelation has a great deal of figurative language and symoblism within it and this is no exception, in my opinion. I don't believe the great city Babylon refers to an earthly city any more than the new heavenly Jerusalem does. I believe it's a spiritual/figurative city that the lost dwell in spiritually while the new heavenly Jerusalem is the spiritual/figurative city that believers dwell in spiritually (Hebrews 12:22, Gal 4:26).

If the great city Babylon represents earthly Jerusalem then please tell me why earthly Jerusalem would spiritually be called Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8).

Who is the crucified person mentioned in v. 8?

BABerean2 · Apr 9, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
You are adding "at the city of Jerusalem". The city gates were at the outer boundary of the city. Anything outside the city gates was outside of the city itself. Also, John 19:20 says He was crucified "near the city". How could it happen "near the city" and in the city?

You say this as if we should accept Luke 9:31 and not Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20. We shouldn't ever allow one verse of scripture to trump another. They need to agree and we need to find a way to reconcile them rather than disregard one in favor of another.

I don't believe that Luke 9:31 is speaking specifically of the location that He would be crucified but rather is referring to the place where He would be given over to be sentenced to death. Otherwise, the verse would contradict Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20. I'm frankly surprised at your lack of willingness to accept what Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 say. You're trying to tell me that "outside the city gates" and "near the city" somehow means within the city. I just can't agree with that. We'll just have to agree to disagree at this point, especially since this is off topic in this thread, anyway. We can talk about it more privately, if you want.

If He was crucified at the Jerusalem garbage dump, which was outside the city gates, would an unbiased witness say He was crucified at Jerusalem?

If not, what was the name of the city where He was crucified?

My wife and I do not live in the city limits, but our mail is still addressed to the closest city.

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Honeymoon · Apr 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Btw, this has nothing to do with any biblical eschatology.

Could you please explain why you believe everything has already happened 1st century? Explain it like I’m a child

Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Who is the crucified person mentioned in v. 8?

Our Lord, which is obviously referring to Jesus. Why do you ask?

BABerean2 · Apr 9, 2021

Hammster said:
Btw, this has nothing to do with any biblical eschatology.

Tell that to Pastor James Coates from Canada.

Canadian Church placed inside a fence due to COVID-19 restrictions:

If your church is shut down in the same way you might change your mind.

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Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
If He was crucified at the Jerusalem garbage dump, which was outside the city gates, would an unbiased witness say He was crucified at Jerusalem?

If not, what was the name of the city where He was crucified?

My wife and I do not live in the city limits, but our mail is still addressed to the closest city.

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Like I said, we just need to agree to disagree at this point. If you want to understand "the great city" to refer to Jerusalem as well as the area surrounding it then that's your choice. My view is that if you're going to take it literally to refer to an earthly city then it can't refer to the earthly city of Jerusalem itself or else Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 could not be true.

Since you see the great city as referring to earthly Jerusalem, then what is your understanding of the temple described in Revelation 11:1-2? A physical temple in Jerusalem? I'm not intending to debate that here, I'm just curious about your understanding of that.

As for your question as to what city He was crucified in, I don't have the answer to that since it doesn't say. If you do some research on the location of Golgotha you will find that it was not in Jerusalem, though. Also, Jewish law did not allow for executions and burials inside the city of Jerusalem, so all of the evidence (including scripture) indicates that He was crucified outside of Jerusalem.

BABerean2 · Apr 9, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Since you see the great city as referring to earthly Jerusalem, then what is your understanding of the temple described in Revelation 11:1-2? A physical temple in Jerusalem? I'm not intending to debate that here, I'm just curious about your understanding of that.

The location of the temple of God in Revelation 11 is found at the end of the chapter.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

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Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
The location of the temple of God in Revelation 11 is found at the end of the chapter.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

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I agree. So, honestly, it's a bit strange to me that you can recognize that, but still insist that the great city is earthly Jerusalem. But, that's okay. Let's not discuss this any further here since this thread relates specifically to the mark of the beast and I don't want to take away from that discussion.

By the way, why did you post a video about a gay pride parade in Jerusalem? I don't think I will bother watching that, but I would like to know why you posted it. Not sure how it relates to our discussion.

BABerean2 · Apr 9, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
By the way, why did you post a video about a gay pride parade in Jerusalem? I don't think I will bother watching that, but I would like to know why you posted it. Not sure how it relates to our discussion.

What is the spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem in Revelation 11:8, shortly before the 7th trumpet and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18?

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Hammster · Apr 9, 2021

Honeymoon said:
Could you please explain why you believe everything has already happened 1st century? Explain it like I’m a child

The short answer is what Jesus said at the beginning and end of His discourse.

Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
— Matthew 23:36

Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
— Matthew 24:34

Every time “this generation” is used, it means the generation that is being talked about, and it discusses judgment upon the generation in question.

Hammster · Apr 9, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Our Lord, which is obviously referring to Jesus. Why do you ask?

There’s nothing “spiritual” about that.

Hammster · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Tell that to Pastor James Coates from Canada.

Canadian Church placed inside a fence due to COVID-19 restrictions:

If your church is shut down in the same way you might change your mind.

.

Why would I? Is Grace church mentioned somewhere in scripture?

Honeymoon · Apr 9, 2021

Hammster said:
The short answer is what Jesus said at the beginning and end of His discourse.

Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
— Matthew 23:36

Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
— Matthew 24:34

Every time “this generation” is used, it means the generation that is being talked about, and it discusses judgment upon the generation in question.

So do you think the great tribulation has already happened?

Hammster · Apr 9, 2021

Honeymoon said:
So do you think the great tribulation has already happened?

Yes.

Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

Hammster said:
There’s nothing “spiritual” about that.

I didn't say there was. What exactly is the point you're trying to make here?

Spiritual Jew · Apr 9, 2021

BABerean2 said:
What is the spiritual condition of earthly Jerusalem in Revelation 11:8, shortly before the 7th trumpet and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18?
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I'm not sure why you would ask me that question when I've made it clear that I don't see "the great city" referenced in Revelation 11:8 as referring to earthly Jerusalem.

Is this story related to the Mark of the Beast?

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